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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Second referendum announced!

999 replies

Isadora2007 · 13/03/2017 11:47

😳

Will your vote change next time?

OP posts:
Thegruffalowswife · 15/03/2017 22:15

Of course they have modelled worse case scenario. Why the hell would they tell everyone what that is... at best all that would do is provide the snp with wank fodder.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that worst case is what will happen and frankly it depends on the cards the eu hold what worst case will be.

If they paint a glorious picture of facts and figures we will all moan when they don't get it for us.

We need to give the government flexibility so they can negotiate a truly beneficial deal for the whole UK and I am confident that the deal will be ok (not fabulous) but ok.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 15/03/2017 22:16

She did not have the grace to have the British Flag along with the Scottish Flag at bute house when May first came up (yet had the Irish Flag when the Irish President came). NS hates the UK and has no interest in staying in it

I didn't know that about the flag. In a way I am bemused that I care but the Union Jack is the flag of my country.

cheeseandcrackers77 · 15/03/2017 22:16

My understanding is you pay in Ireland to see a Dr.

cheeseandcrackers77 · 15/03/2017 22:18

LassWiTheDelicateAir

If you look online you will see the pair sitting in front of the fire place with a saltire behind each chair. Any other country's leader etc gets their cpuntry's flag put behind them except May. Pure pettiness.

Thegruffalowswife · 15/03/2017 22:19

Ireland can - so Scotland can too...

Actually no... they had a massive eu bailout and uk 14bn taxpayer bailout.

Thegruffalowswife · 15/03/2017 22:23

I would have really giggled if may had refused to go till they hung up the union flag and the St George's flag before going hahaha... the saltire is accepted in england along with the union flag. Sturgeon should have the decency to return the kind sentiment.

Thegruffalowswife · 15/03/2017 22:27

I think as may is the prime minister of the whole uk she will be very proud and more than happy to sit on a chair with the saltire on it. I know it wouldn't bother me...

May should return the favour by having st george flags all over her sitee when Nikki pops down for a cuppa and a chat.

Fontella · 15/03/2017 22:36

I didn't know that about the flag. In a way I am bemused that I care but the Union Jack is the flag of my country.

It is the flag of the Union - Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England.

Unfortunately approximately 3% of the population of that Union want to tear it down.

unlucky83 · 15/03/2017 22:47

theguffalo that's what I am saying - that comparison is deeply flawed - even without the bail out
Of course Scotland (like Ireland) could be an independent nation...just would that be an independent nation you would want to live in?
Would we have a better standard living than we do now?
And I think the answer to that is a resounding no - if nothing else I quite like being able to get medical treatment without needing to check my bank balance first....

And I think the poorest in society would be the ones to suffer the most...

Thegruffalowswife · 15/03/2017 22:57

I grew up not far from where may was born. There is definately love for England and for all of the devolved nations. The flag waving thing is reasonably wierd and unusual except at summer faites. The emotion felt here about flags will probably have not even entered mays head. It is clear that this is sturgeon's intention, but may might not even have noticed. Living in england I quite liked all the devolved nations flags and the UJ. They willingly celebrated all the saints days of the nations.

When I moved to scotland I had never seen an orange parade or other such displays of flag waving. It was so odd to me. I was genuinely flabbergasted. I was flabbergasted again in the indyref. I find Scotland's ways with flag waving in all directions terrifying and still do tbh.

Such things were reserved for the likes of the EDL where I was from.

Motheroffourdragons · 15/03/2017 22:57

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NoLotteryWinYet · 15/03/2017 23:04

Yes, it'll become evident that the Scottish poor will pay twice because Scotland will have to come out of the EU like RUK even if for a 'mere' 4-5 years, the new deal with the EU will cost more for less in return and the interim uncertainty caused by independence before a deal is struck with the EU if it can be struck at all will hit them very hard. Added to that, Scotland won't have RUK to fall back on for bail outs and will also be less able to borrow to find deficit spending.

Thegruffalowswife · 15/03/2017 23:04

Just to be clear though. I can see that where there is a faction stirring up separation I can see how people are pushed to it. It looks more and more reasonable to me to continuously wave the UJ than it has ever looked in my life.

Thegruffalowswife · 15/03/2017 23:08

Sadly it is the poor who will suffer... the people left behind when rich people decide to leave and move their businesses. Rich people have few barriers to moving around. It is poor people who will not be accepted anywhere else and wI'll have no jobs or prospects at home. It makes me Sad

Thegruffalowswife · 15/03/2017 23:10

Being trapped somewhere with a population of 5ml won't help you.

Fontella · 15/03/2017 23:10

The flag waving thing is reasonably wierd

gruffalo I'm Welsh and we do like a bit of flag waving ourselves. But can you blame us when we've got the coolest flag out of the whole lot of you? As one American friend said to me once 'you've got a fucking dragon on your flag - how cool is that?'

Comes to Wales and you'll see Y Ddraig Goch flying from every building but chances are you'll see a few union flags flying alongside. We are Welsh and proud but also, plenty of us are also British and proud and that's the difference. Apart from a small minority (and that's a whole other story) we are not nationalist in outlook other than in terms of being proud to be Welsh. But we know what side our bread is buttered and we don't want to go tearing down a union that has served us all reasonably well over many centuries.

Wales play England at Rugby and whose arse do I want to see kicked into touch? But Team GB take on the rest of the world and I'm right behind them. Whether they are Scottish, English, Northern Irish or Welsh, first, second, third generation immigrants, or have ancestry going back generations, I don't give a shit. They are my fellow Brits.

Motheroffourdragons · 15/03/2017 23:15

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Thegruffalowswife · 15/03/2017 23:20

Fontella exactly!!!

My sister lived in Wales for a while she mentioned the flag waving!!! Woohoo!! I love the Welsh flag, who the hell wouldn't want a flag with a dragon on it Grin if it's waved with the union flag then EVEN BETTER!!!

It was done on st George's day, stuff for the queen and summer faites when I was a kid. Possibly may day too, yes morris dancing and all that shit Grin awesome Grin

I just don't understand the angry flag waving. I don't think scotland are in a bad position on the union at all. I think it is often Wales, Northern parts of england and the West country that miss out the most. For me the SNP are just exploiting people and I don't understand the appeal

The problem is that May will just not understand it either. She just will not be able to get her head to that place.

Thegruffalowswife · 15/03/2017 23:25

Within the union I thought it was expected to love your flag and the uj.it does not have to be one or the other.

NS is obviously not good at multitasking Grin

OOAOML · 15/03/2017 23:29

I can't believe people are reassured that David Davis and his Brexit mates have had nine fucking months and apparently haven't thought about the implications of WTO tariffs (some of which are very high) or the loss of financial services passporting. We already have the car industry talking about how key the single market is.

In what way is any of this reassuring? People are going on about the economic risks of independence, but unlike 2014 the UK is looking like it is going to become an economic basket case.

The reactions I've seen since Monday, and the utter incompetence of the UK government push me more and more to Yes every day.

OOAOML · 15/03/2017 23:37

Apparently WTO tariffs for dairy and livestock farmers could be 30-40%. I'm not sure what it would be on Leadsom's innovative jam. I'm not remotely reassured that we have a government that hasn't bothered to think about this but insists coming out of the EU with no deal is fine.

Fontella · 15/03/2017 23:37

The roots of Scottish nationalism run very deep and it is largely based on rhetoric and revisionism.

That they perceive that are somehow under the jackboot of the English who have been dragging them down all these years is so ingrained in the psyche of so many nationalists. Even on here it's like a constant refrain. I've read words today like 'tethered' and 'Scottish resources' and numerous references to 'the English' and 'Westminster' as well as some real venom from certain quarters about the UK in general, and it is that kind of ingrained victimisation and resentment is what fuels Scottish nationalism.

We live on a tiny island that would easily fit inside at least a dozen US states. It is about half the size of France with a similar sized population. We have an entwined and complex history that goes back two millennia if you look at the Brythonic and Goedelic Celts who populated these islands before the Romans came and subsequent settlement by Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes and finally Normans.

Despite the so called English oppression of Scotland it has a unique and mistakable cultural identity as do Wales and Ireland. No one has tried to suppress that other than in linguistic terms (and as a first language Welsh speaker and some who wrote a dissertation on the Welsh language and English attempts to erode it, I do know what I am talking about) but other than that Welsh, Scottish and Irish identity thrives.

I've been involved in 'nationalism' in a big way in my youth. Don't want to go into it to much but yes, I was. Young, patriotic, a Welsh speaker. If you want to google Meibion Glyndŵr - early 90s - you'll get the gist. Fortunately, I came to my senses.

Thegruffalowswife · 15/03/2017 23:38

If brexit is a shot storm... independence would be like a shit storm in the desert.

They are on such a terrible position with the devolved government acting as a traitor within that they can not possibly give anything away. It is blindingly obvious. They will have modeled every scenario to within an inch of it's life, but telling us all the possible consequences which are endless would only be destabilising. I would keep it to myself too.

unlucky83 · 15/03/2017 23:39

mother why will the poor suffer less in an independent scotland? surely they are going to get a double whammy ...independence and brexit ...it will just be even worse for them....

Thegruffalowswife · 15/03/2017 23:46

Well fontella, it's great to have you back Grin thanks for posting it has been great to hear your thoughts as a former N word lol...

It is good to see that people can heal from feeling disenfranchised, it gives me hope for Scotland. So cool that you can speak Welsh. My friend moved to ceredigion (probs spelled wrong) and had her kids there and.loved it, great beaches apparently.