Second referendum announced!

[Isadora2007]

😳

Will your vote change next time?

Yes, successful scottishdiem. All marriages have spats, even times where you really don't like each other that much, but they are still successful. Scotland has done very well from the Union on the whole.

Love the analogy youcannotbe

Scottishdiem given you have posted failures which you no doubt think are driven by WM can you post up successes of the SNP in the since they have been in power?

Thanks for posting the link Peggy, £280k raised in only 2 days

As for dividing a country up - depends on how you view a country I supposed. I am not masterbating at the thought of my shiny new British Passport as I feel nothing but contempt for the UK as a political body.

I doubt many of us wherever we may be in the UK are 'masturbating' over anything - let alone a 'shiny, new passport'. But your post does serve to illustrate your absolute venom and that I'm afraid that is what drives most of the rhetoric from the separatists.

Instead of hurling the usual accusations of 'xenophobia' 'nativism' and 'racism' (so overused now that they have lost any kind of meaning) and ranting about Daily Mail readers and your hatred and loathing of the UK and it all represents ... why not set about trying to persuade your fellow Scots of all the benefits that living an independent Scotland could bring, and back it up with sound argument and facts.

Surely that is the way to persuade and influence, not to abuse and denigrate?

Basically I find people who identify as British and the UK a bit odd when they complain about those of us who prefer to identify with only one of its parts.

I identify myself as a person

If I identified myself as a left elbow and refused to aknowledge the rest of my body would anyone think I was strange?

We are tethered to the xenophobia, nativism and basic racisim of Daily Mail readers who then influence Westminster government policy (of all UK parties).

Including the SNP then after all, last time I checked they are a party in Westminster.

Youcannot- Scotland has been robbed by this Union. Let's agree to disagree.

Done well? Mmmm.

"A 2006 report, Let Glasgow Flourish, suggests that some health problems in Greater Glasgow are recent. One example is the fourfold increase in alcohol-related deaths that occurred between 1991 and 2002.

....Burns believes that some communities where as many as four generations have been unemployed have never recovered from the dismantling of the city’s industrial base in the 1970s."

People died in Scotland because of Westminster policies. Not sure that counts as a spat to be honest.

At best, this marriage is like some you read in the Relationship threads. Bordering EA (see ignoring Scotland over Brexit) and also clearly like those very long threads where the marriage isnt awful but the woman still wants to leave because although the short term will be harder, the benefit of being free will be so much better (I thinking those threads are at over 3000 posts now).

Anyway I'm off to see if my husband's passport can provide better wankfodder. Mine is shit

I'm surprised you guys ever left home to get your own place or started a business or did anything financially difficult in order to gain self respect and a chance to do well for yourselves

How mature

Calyx that argument is so high level as to be meaningless - it's the same guy as the new statesman. IF Scotland can remain in the single market is a big IF and at what cost. It's also by no means certain that it would attract foreign investment as an EU hub. What IS certain is that rUK is our main backer, we have much more political power within the UK than we would have in the EU.

"Surely that is the way to persuade and influence, not to abuse and denigrate?"

Tried that last time. Unfortunately being married to a black Zimbabwean is vexing for the UK Home Office who told us to leave the UK (I have only ever lived in Scotland). My venom is basically because I am watching dementia affecting my dad and all I can do is speak to him on the phone (or FaceTime if he remembers about his ipad). People of Scotland who vote to stay with this kind of immigration policy are not really, I think, liable to vote to create a country with a different outlook on humanity. I am prepared to discuss the various aspects of independence with undecideds but I think those who are No at the moment are not my target for conversion (others can have that role).

People of Scotland who vote to stay with this kind of immigration policy are not really, I think, liable to vote to create a country with a different outlook on humanity.

So you think everyone who votes yes has the same outlook as you.

They don't funnily enough.....

Nor do those who voted yes have some sort or moral high ground either.

I have heard many yes folk say they won't engage with no voters. Just remember no voters were in the majority lat time and you need to bring no voters over to yes to actually win.

Sorry too busy wanking on my passport to be persuaded.

Sorry too busy wanking on my passport to be persuaded

Now that did make me laugh ... and yes, I had just taken a gulp of tea when I read it. Now sprayed all over desk and keyboard!

There we go again no voters have no moralsuch and don't care about anyone.

Scottishdiem you have an issue with the UK immigration laws and I am sorry about that but stop blaming No voters.

"We have much more political power within the UK than we would have in the EU".

You see, this is just not true. Scotland is ignored. Except when her resources are being exploited.

'Vote Leave to get your fishing rights back!"

Late: "ha ha only kidding"

SNP: "Oi"

Journos: SNP grudge and grievance. They never change.

i wonder where the undecideds are? Nyx that makes no sense, it's at the level of slogan. I feel the people that are engaging in this debate are the people that have clear opinions, I'm not sure where the undecideds are - I'm guessing waiting and seeing until closer to the time.

Here's an FT article which says an independent Scotland inside the EU could make it work: www.ft.com/content/1219f41c-4456-11e6-9b66-0712b3873ae1

It's not a slogan, NoLottery, it's a bit flippantly put but it's pretty much what happens. We're told to vote No to stay in the EU. We're coming out. Being angry about that is SNP grudge and grievance. We're told that devolved powers will come to us from the EU. Then Ruth Davidson starts saying that it would be unwise to pass agriculture and fishing rights powers to Scotland. Being angry about that is just grudge and grievance though. I do think the SNP aren't being angry about anything they're not entitled to be angry about.

How is it 'ignored'?

You have a devolved government - devoted entirely to Scottish matters.

In addition you have exactly the same political representation at Westminster as any other part of the UK, more in fact! Yorkshire with a larger population than Scotland has 54 parliamentary seats compared to your 59.

UKIP polled 4 million votes and have 1 MP. The Greens with over a million votes, have only 1 MP. The SNP with 1.5 million votes have 56!

Who is ignoring you exactly? Why do you deserve to be heard any more than someone living in Wales or Cornwall or Cheshire?

Youcannot- Scotland has been robbed by this Union. Let's agree to disagree.
I think we will have to

At best, this marriage is like some you read in the Relationship threads. Bordering EA (see ignoring Scotland over Brexit) and also clearly like those very long threads where the marriage isnt awful but the woman still wants to leave because although the short term will be harder, the benefit of being free will be so much better (I thinking those threads are at over 3000 posts now).

Thing is, most people in Scotland don't want to leave the marriage. Even the latest 'highest ever support' for independence is less than 50%. I for one see a brighter future for Scotland within the UK and with a strong devolved parliament (although I'd love to see a better government in it).

(And the news today indicates that Scots aren't as bothered by leaving the EU as the SNP likes to suggest. Just as the SNP wasn't bothered about leaving the EU 3 years ago. The whole 'ignoring Scotland's voice' thing feels like a cynical attempt to justify another referendum)

Has the government said that Scotland won't get fishing rights back from the EU? My understanding was that they will eventually, but that the dishing out of powers should be coordinated between the Scottish and UK governments, i.e. thought through. Sounds pretty sensible to me.

An independent Scotland would have around 13 MEPS out of around 700.

We have 59 out of 650 in the UK.

2009 saw the EU remove veto powers from members so an independent Scotland would have no veto powers and would have less of a representation in a bigger parliament than they currently have in the UK.

So I don't see how the EU is going to be this great adventure where we are going to be more influencial than currently. The numbers just don't add up.