Second referendum announced!

[Isadora2007]

😳

Will your vote change next time?

Exactly cooper. Couldn't agree more.

Good point about fear. Fearing for one's job or pension is entirely normal and legitimate.

The media has always been Anglo centric, I noticed it even as a child, particularly on sports coverage

All media, other than than the licence paying BBC is about 'sales'. Most widely read titles are based in England, understandably so, as the population of England outnumbers Scotland by 10 to 1 and Wales by almost 20 to 1. Why the news they contains shouldn't be 'anglo-centric' I'm not quite sure as they are purchased and read overwhelmingly by the population of England.

Unlike Scotland and Wales there are few (if any) 'England only' newspapers, other than regional titles. There's no Scotsman, Herald, Daily Record etc. for England only. No Western Mail or Daily Post for England only. There are however Scottish editions of most major UK titles.

Why do you think over 50 million English people would want to be reading in detail about Scottish sport for example?

Anything that happens in Scotland that relates to the whole of the UK is reported .. but day-to-day Scottish news isn't of a huge amount of interest to those of us at the other end of the country is it? This is why we have regional newspapers, TV and Radio.

The population of Scotland is smaller than the population of Yorkshire. Should Yorkshire news therefore have more prominence in UK newspapers, TV and Radio .... seeing as how are more of them than there are of you?

Not really .... when it is only of interest to those living in Yorkshire and they can watch, listen and read about it in their own regional media.

I am terrified of an independent scotland

thegruffalo. Why aren't you terrified of a Brexit Britain? I am. There are no figures for that either.

If it helps, I'm just as terrified of Brexit Britain as I am of independent Scotland. There isn't a finite amount of worry to be had.

To me there's something very paradoxical about voting for independence in order to desperately remain part of the EU.

My recollection of the first referendum was the continual drumming of 'we have million billion squillion zillion quadrillion infinite reserves of oil, hence we can survive on our own and don't need nobody!'

Now all I'm hearing is 'we need a referendum as we can't possibly be expected to survive without the EU!'

So much for a once in a generation vote! The sooner this proposal is rejected the better.

I agree cockadoodle

Fear is normal and no and yes voters both are going to feel it. I'm more afraid of being in Scotland in the UK after Brexit than in an independent Scotland in the EU.

I am much more afraid of being in Scotland in the UK after a no vote

After Brexit I mean

YES! To all of the above.

I agree - it's not surprising that the media is anglo-centric, it's no big deal and the SNP play on this to stoke up nationalism.

Cons are indeed far from unpopular in Scotland. Further evidence of no distinct identity Scottish political identity. In the event of Scottish independence there could be even more conservative mps throughout Britain.

Yes to agentcooper. Fear of poverty is sensible.

I will complain to my MP about the fact that my Scottish son gets zero help from the Scottish gov't with his HE fees. He has done incredibly well to get into one of the best courses in UK. Why shouldn't he have £1,800 of his fees paid like all the other Scottish students?

i agree with baggycheeks, although I'm more scared of independence because brexit is already upon us and has to be dealt with now. Independence isn't saving Scotland it's miring us further. I'm personally terrified I'm going to be left trying to pay my mortgage with bitcoins, facing a crippling income tax rate and seeing my children getting a seriously sub-standard education.

Fear is normal and no and yes voters both are going to feel it. I'm more afraid of being in Scotland in the UK after Brexit than in an independent Scotland in the EU.

That isn't the choice though is it? The EU confirmed again on Monday that an independent Scotland would have to reapply, and since we don't currently meet the economic entry requirements membership could take a long time.

The real question is what scares you more: Scotland in the UK and out of the EU, or Scotland out of the UK and out of the EU. I know what my answer would be.

Why aren't you terrified of a Brexit Britain?

Plenty of evidence of countries smaller and with far weaker economies than the UK, all over the world doing perfectly well outside of political/fiscal unions.

We have only been a member of the EU for four decades. We functioned perfectly well as an independent nation before that. A very successful one.

We were never part of the eurozone. We have our own currency, and the financial capital of the world is based on our island. The UK is one of the world's top 6 economies.

It's vastly different to a tiny top of an island region of 5 million, that has no currency of its own and hasn't functioned as an independent state for over 3 centuries.

And in case you hadn't noticed the EU is heading for the shitter, unless it starts to implement some serious reform and fast. One of it's major players and highest net contributors is heading for the exit and euroscepticism in on the rise in every single member state, including Germany itself.

We have a good hand of cards for dealing with the eu and I expect the deal will be difficult but ok. It will take some time to get over.

We have no cards in scotland for exiting the uk and would be screwed over left right and centre.

Then we would be screwed over trying to join the eu with less than enviable credentials.

Then we would have virtually no representation and would be at the mercy of the other eu member states.

We would be quadruple fucked if you know what I mean.

Exactly gruffalo!

I'm more afraid of Scotland out of the UK AND the EU. I'm pretty sure a breaking off from the UK we would be out of EU as a default, and I don't think becoming a member state is an overnight process. Many years of no UK and no EU is a realistic and scarier prospect IMO.

Calyx, I'm shitting it over Brexit. I work in the Modern Languages dept at one of the big Scottish universities and we're all worried that certain courses may have to close down because European student numbers on them are so high. We're really worried about the Erasmus scheme and working rights for our European academics (because tbh it's quite useful to have actual French people teaching oral French). I am angry beyond belief.

But I'm still worried about the figures not adding up in the event of a Yes vote (because they didn't last time) and people losing their jobs in swathes because of this.

I meant why aren't you terrified of being in Scotland as part of Brexit Britain. Scotland will be screwed over big time. We have been screwed over since the 2014 No vote. We were screwed before that. I've got being screwed over fatigue.

How many times do the EU have to state that an independent Scotland would be welcome? Even big bad Spain have said it.

How many times do the EU have to state that an independent Scotland would be welcome? Even big bad Spain have said it.

The European Commission (the people actually in charge of such things) say the opposite.

www.holyrood.com/articles/news/independent-scotland-would-need-re-apply-join-eu-european-commission-spokesman

Well yes, we'd be welcome to apply to join the EU, just as we would have been if we'd left the UK in 2014. What we have no idea about is terms, costs and timescales.

Brexit will still stand for scotland even if you all botes yes. You would have apply to be apart of the eu which could take years.

You are still not going to be able to use the pound and the financial state would be worse now then it was then given oil is getting sold to fracking.

I was pro stay for brexit but united a choice was made independence wont make a difference.

Sorry Nyx, I thought you were suggesting that Scotland could just take over the UK's membership as NS often asserts (and implied in her speech on Monday). I have no doubt that there is good feeling for the Scotland in the EU, but we would still have to reapply and we still don't meet the economic entry requirements. Sympathy will only get you so far.

Nyx, we all can see your denial.

I'm baffled by the naivete that an independent Scotland will be immune to the aftermath of brexit Britain given our reliance on trade with the rUK and the cognitive dissonance that brexit will be dreadful for Scotland, but independence will make us all better off.

I never said it would be immune. I said it would have brighter prospects than being part of Brexit UK. I never said it would be easy. I see no hope at all for Scotland as part of Brexit UK.