Second referendum announced!

[Isadora2007]

😳

Will your vote change next time?

I would never dream of saying those wishing for independence are racist, however, surely one doesn't need to be a "metrosplainer" to agree that the independence campaign is divisive!!

Particularly as it was mooted that the next attempt would be with polls showing support at 60% - clearly a less bitterly divisive situation.

With her move this week Nicola Sturgeon has lost all the goodwill i held for her and her party. It's difficult to know whether to express this to SNP members in real life. I feel really quite pissed off.

calyx

the same remarks made in the English media about scots are just banter

I know what you mean. It's irritating when rUK refer to Scottish people in unkind ways or even for that matter to the north of England as the north. I believe that careless and or arrogant remarks/attitudes in the English-dominated media are partly responsible for an unacknowledged resentment of all things English by Scottish independence supporters. But this desire to 'get our own back' by leaving UK on the much larger part of uk is drastically disproportionate. Also! Many a highlands and islander will make the same complaint about people from the central belt making insulting comments about 'teuchters' etc. DH's boss (Glasgow) once referred to the north of Scotland as 'teuchterland'. I kid you not.

The SNP maintains that Scotland is multi-cultural and in favour of immigration but we are less multi-cultural than England and there's no evidence that the Scottish citizens in an independent Scotland would be any more tolerant of immigration than the UKip voters in areas like Dover where there has been a problem created by a sudden, large mismanaged influx of non-English speaking people. It's all very well for pro-indies to claim we're inclusive, friendly, outward-looking etc, but there's no actual evidence that we're more of those things than rUK.

It's funny that you mention gaelic speakers being rude actually. I'm Scottish, non-gaelic speaker and I've experienced that.

Back to HE! I mentioned earlier that it's more difficult for Scottish students to study in London now as the Scottish gov't has scrapped the extra loan that used to be available for scots studying in London. The way the Scottish gov't treats uk students is hugely unfair. Scottish students studying at Scottish students get their fees paid while English students at Scottish universities are charged more than other EU students. This is bad for Scottish universities as they get much less funding from the Scottish gov't per Scottish student. And there's absolutely no reason why the Scottish gov't couldn't pay the same amount of fees to the English universities that Scottish students attend. It wouldn't cover the fees - far from it - but it would be fairer. Scottish students get their fees paid in EU countries, but not in England. It's unfair.

To be clear that woman was accepted in the new intake and has been convicted of race crime against english people.

She was part of an organised group which was seeking out english people and hoax bombing them and terrorising them.

I really do not know what to say.

lottery has made my point much more succinctly.

An independent Scotland would be the equivalent of Flouncers' Corner.'

Ok i don't disagree with a lot of what you say rogue but on the matter of " the north". National UK news notwithstanding, If referring to their own experience in England it is not insulting to talk of the North. Are the Welsh allowed to refer to " the north"? Did Chris Ecclestone's "Northern Doctor" offend?

Yes "tory scum". Shocking language. Btw I have never voted con. Would it actually hurt NS to just once refer to conservative mps and conservative mps.

Tartan tories anyone?

It took absoloute public outrage and numerous requests for Nikki to eventually apologise for that guy that made the quisling remark about redcoats and coffins.

It looked like a forced apology to me and she is taking no action.

She is a discrace to scotland and an embarrassment.

On national - ie british news - the north of England used to be referred to as the north . To the irritation of people who live hundreds of miles north of the north.

rogue that's an interesting point on concrete discrimination against studying in England and rUK students! What do our yes voters have to say about this? And presumably, once the glorious independence day happens, Scottish students foolish enough to want to go to rUK universities will indeed have to pay more - another economic cost of independence.

It mears english and has nothing to do with your voting intentions.

The SNP maintains that Scotland is multi-cultural and in favour of immigration but we are less multi-cultural than England and there's no evidence that the Scottish citizens in an independent Scotland would be any more tolerant of immigration than the UKip voters

Scotland managed to elect a UKIP msp. If you analyse the votes cast the highest %ages , over 10% , in some constituencies were from parts of Scotland which have virtually no immigration issues.

To be clear that woman was accepted in the new intake and has been convicted of race crime against english people.

Is that the woman who was recently photographed with John Nicholson ?

Yes rogue and i did mention the UK news because of that.

it's funny this identity politics - going up north always felt like going home to me, from the moment we got past the midlands through the entire stretch from the North of England, crossing the border and into Scotland. It's only pejorative if you hear it that way - identity politics is so tricky and intangible.

Also. How can people be so confident that the only way to be shot of the 'tories' is to leave the UK? You can't predict the government in twenty years. Look at the Lib Dems from being the minority party in a coalition to almost wiped out four years later. Or the labour party?

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/settler-watch-extremist-links-tartan-9834853.amp

I don't think it's heard as pejorative. But it gives the impression that English people don't take Scotland into account. The media is anglo-centric.

I think the situation has changed. But I do feel that the historical attitudes mentioned by Calyx have a large part in the (IMO, misplaced) desire for Scottish independence.

gruffalo

The media has always been Anglo centric, I noticed it even as a child, particularly on sports coverage.

But as much as that annoys me, I don't want to deal with the issue by getting my world and national news directly from Jackie Bird.

As much as it is annoying english people can not help that the are over 50mil of them.

The newspapers that are distributed accross the uk are aimed to get the most readers possible.

There are loads of scottish papers.

If you don't like the english media and don't want to hear about england, don't read english media and read a scottish paper instead.

I went down to see the mother in law in the south east and the TV was ram packed with snp.

Have you seen cbeebies?

Anglocentric?

Nicola sturgeon will be on there next informing the kids of the benefits of an independent t scotland

Have you seen cbeebies

I not sure cbeebies really counts as media...

Look petition is at 116000 now

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/180642

My DS (Scottish) is studying at an English university, and yes, he pays fees, which he wouldn't have paid if he'd studied at a "home" university.

Scotland funds tuition fees for their residents to study within Scotland. By EU law they are required to extent that policy to EU residents studying at Scottish universities, but due to an anomaly, not students from elsewhere in the U.K. Scottish students studying in England are charged fees.

England decided to charge tuition fees to students at English universities- If you are not happy with with that, complain to your MP!

I've just been having a chat online about the shiteness of the last referendum, how ugly it got. A lot of my Yes friends are now of the opinion that No voters were treated pretty poorly last time - that there was no engagement with the fact that we were not all bigots, lairds or Orange Lodge members. That in fact plenty of us were just people on low-middling incomes who had genuine fear over our jobs.

I brought up the fact that 'fear' last time round was so stigmatised - as if being anxious was the most shameful thing when it's in fact a legit response to huge uncertainty. This is just a small conversation but it gives me a bit of hope that things may go forward with a bit more engagement and consideration this time.

I really hope it doesn't get too ugly again, because I do not want to feel shunted between two worlds like that - defending my right not to trust or like the SNP but also standing up when bigoted people see this as the chance to describe all Scots as thick, insular idiots.

The conservatives used to be very popular in scotland rogue, so I think that they would be in with a very good chance in an independent scotland. The social attitude survey is almost exactly the same as england.