Second referendum announced!

[Isadora2007]

😳

Will your vote change next time?

Scottish love for the EU may fall further when the costs of EU membership are properly gone into, alongside the economic criteria.

I felt a lot of hate during the previous campaign, @scottishdiem - all of it towards the Better Together campaign and its supporters. And I felt genuine fear about expressing my views unless I utterly trusted those I was expressing them to.

You were scared of what? Fear of what? Jim Murphy had an egg thrown at him, imo that is because he was being shouty and goady and provoking. Ruth lied about burly men at the polling station. If you were scared to wear a No badge because you didn't know what arguments to use, then decide why you don't want independence and use those arguments. Or tell people you'd rather not discuss it. But there wasn't violence. I live next to an orange lodge and I was scared to wear a yes badge. My husband wouldn't put one on the car in case it was scratched. I am truly sorry for anyone who got ill but I am not sure what the fear was of. Violence from yes-voting colleagues and friends? I doubt it.

what does Mhairi Black deserve for the things she said about yes voters then Nyx? So no voters that felt intimidated are making it up, but you, as a yes voter felt intimidated and we're supposed to accept that? Ok then...

Nyx it was very intimidating. Might not suit your narrative to acknowledge that, but that's the reality of it.

I was told i was stupid, selfish, traitor, a quisling, "hoarding my gold" and that was just from family and friends.

I was also verbally abused by strangers on facebook and twitter.

Civic and joyous it was not. It made me ill and I'm not sure i can stick my head above the parapet again.

sorry the thing she said about no voters (would campaign for an edit button) - must do some work now...the point is that this was all too personal last time, too many feelings, emotional attacks etc.

Me too, but the tide is turning. I will be actively voicing my support for the Union. I am scottish, but I have an english accent, so I will probably doing everything on the Internet or in a way where I do not have to speak publicly. I am frightened in scotland the way it was the last time.

My mum and dad and various other family all kept their heads down the last time, but they have all said they won't this time. I have some yesses in my family who were very vocal last time and were very racist and abusive to a shocking level. I am no longer in contact with them. It is sad as they used to enjoy coming down to visit us in England on holidays.

If we keep the snp we will never have an even moderately left leaning or centrist uk government. It can only push england further right and that would be very bad news for an independent scotland if it was struggling to cope.

I did not say anyone was making anything up and I am sad that anybody feels or felt intimidated. This is not my narrative. Why would you say that? I was asking what the fear was of. Perhaps I have been lucky. I live in Glasgow and my colleagues had some very good debates, some were for yes and some for no. My family and friends who were No voters (including my mother) basically discussed our points a few times then agreed to disagree and went and voted the way we wanted. I feel on Mumsnet that independence supporters are outnumbered and the union supporters are far more vocal. If you don't believe that men from the orange lodge coming out of the building after a march and a drink were not intimidating to me and my yes voting family then I'm not about to try to convince you. But neither am I denying how you feel. I have seen so much abuse on social media towards Nicola Sturgeon and Mhairi Black and Tasmina and the rest, not to mention Alex Salmond. That is hate.

I felt that there was a lot of laughing at the Better Together campaign because it was so mismanaged (eat your cereal?) and almost felt bad for them. But I am sure that will be handled better this time. But not hate, seriously. Britain First, the Orange Lodge, UKIP, all of those groups are unionists. The SNP, Greens, are independence supporters and they are not scary. Are they? Really?

As posted up thread, I am a definite YES voter. A number of my relative as just as definitely NO.

I've been watching the petition with some interest, and wondering if potentially there's a lot of fraudulent signatures going on (if signing an online petition can be said to be fraudulent).

I say that for a few reasons - some very strongly SNP voting area seemed to have sudden jumps in voting numbers yesterday that put them ahead of a couple of Tory voting areas (yes, there are some, even in Scotland ).
Also, through the FB newsfeed of my relatives, I could see some (fairly right wing) English pro union groups sharing the petition and encouraging their followers to vote in the petition. It takes all of 5 seconds to find a Scottish postcode (google any random Scottish business).

I would have expected more voting in the north of England and other areas , where there are lots of Scottish people or people with Scottish connections but there's only a handful in each English, Welsh, N Irish area. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those with Scottish connections in RUK who feel very strongly about the union, have signed the petition using Grannie or Auntie Senga's Scottish post code.

And in someways, that's fine, they can make their views know, but they won't have a vote when it comes to a second referendum.

It wouldn't be the first time an online petition has been significantly distorted in that way, and the numbers revised.

Independence is the only way any sort of Labour or Conservative party in Scotland will ever have a chance again. And current unionists in an independent scotland would not vote SNP. So the government could lean differently quite easily and quickly. We'd need to wait and see.

The last Indyref campaign was indeed frightening at times. Perhaps it was because Better Together couldn't get their act together, but the Nationalists had the momentum, and independence was presented as the only patriotic choice. The Yes campaign was far more organised and more visible, with huge rallies taking over the centre of Glasgow, and it was hugely intimidating. No supporters were much more fragmented and met in much smaller groups (if at all), and I also avoided raising the subject unless I was sure it would be calmly received.

Remember all the 'team Westminster', 'team Scotland' shite from Alex Salmond? And the not too subtle subtext that 'true' Scots would vote for independence? (also the sheer hatred that was directed at Nick Robinson for daring to suggest that 'team Scotland' included No voters too...) If anyone tried to question the frankly outrageous claims made by the Yes campaign they were branded 'fearmongers' who should get behind Scotland, and stop dragging it down. It was an extremely difficult environment in which to have a reasoned debate, and I dread a second one.

I felt quite uncomfortable at the polling station. There were 2 ladies with their rosettes on and they were hanging around in my face at the door and were trying to ask what I was voting for on the way in. Then when I left they asked again which way I voted I just said yes. They should not have been allowed anywhere near.

There was not a no-er in sight.

Presumably, like me people felt intimidated.

How about the SNP's connections to settler watch and the IRA then Nyx? Siol nan Gaidheal?

If scotland was independent already.... what would there be (other than poor record in government) to stop people that wanted to stay in the union voting snp? They would have no union any more. It is irreversible. England would never take the risk again even if we wanted it.

The settler watch connections worry me greatly. In fact it makes me sick with worry.

And the IRA connections are very obvious too.

That was long ago, trixy. You're reaching.

And Thegruffalo, they would vote for the government they felt would be the best for Scotland. I know, it sounds outrageous, but there would be no choice.

No the connections are not long ago. Many are from the new intake.

Yes, Thegruffalo, because the SNP are actively trying to chuck people out? No they are not. Quite the opposite. Not like my poor EU national friend who is literally sick with worry. The SNP and the Greens are the only ones trying to help people like her.

But the SNP has a terrible record in government.

We would be broke... worse than Greece for sure.

Nyx, they have in the last month or so approved candidates with settler watch and IRA connections!!! Not only that but one has been convicted of anti english racism.

I'm not the one who's reaching here.

I was threatened that my child would be taken into care in an independent Scotland because I didn't care about their future by a man campaigning in the street.

Thought that was nice and rational.

That is what they were planning with the named person scheme probably.

Iam - he was obviously a complete diddy and I disagree utterly with that sort of behaviour. I have been told on facebook that I don't care about my child because I want an independent Scotland. I know how you feel. We all care and we all believe different things.