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Original poster

Second referendum announced!

999 replies

Isadora2007 · 13/03/2017 11:47

😳

Will your vote change next time?

OP posts:
PigletWasPoohsFriend · 14/03/2017 22:34

Over 86k now Wink

Nyx · 14/03/2017 22:35

Guff and wishful thinking. Pretty much like the UK Brexit non-existent plan then? Grin

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 14/03/2017 22:35

It is obviously more economically attractive now - that doesn't mean it is economically attractive.

In 2014 the option were a moderately uncertain future and a massively uncertain future.

Now it is between two massively uncertain futures Wink

Thegruffalowswife · 14/03/2017 22:39

Out of the frying pan and into the fire!

Nyx · 14/03/2017 22:46

Two massively uncertain futures, perhaps. But one of them has brighter prospects. You can't say that staying within Brexit Britain has much in the way of hope for Scotland in the near, medium or even far future. All i can see are job losses, wage drops, yet more austerity, resources being bartered away, Scotland's voice being roundly ignored.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 14/03/2017 22:49

But one of them has brighter prospects.

As always, both sides will back up their argument with their interpretation of "facts" and figures.

All we can do as voters is think critically, read original sources, and be very aware of biases and our own confirmation bias.

This is not a decision for the heart.

Nyx · 14/03/2017 22:51

Very true.

Redactio · 14/03/2017 22:57

Nyx, I don't understand why you think that the Sewel convention judgement impacts the Scotland act.
Although the Scotland act could be repealed I suppose.

Redactio · 14/03/2017 23:00

We've no idea what Brexit is going to look like at the moment, so trying to assess it's impact on Scotland at this stage is a waste of effort. Honest politicians recognise this, unfortunately Nicola Sturgeon has shown herself to be an opportunistic chancer, just like her old mentor.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 14/03/2017 23:05

Over 89k now

Nyx · 14/03/2017 23:06

I'm not a lawyer so correct me if I'm wrong but as I understand it, because the Sewel convention existed, Scotland's (government's) consent should have been required for brexit to be triggered because of the "significant changes" Brexit would make to its powers. However the judges concluded that Sewel was not an issue here, that the judiciary could overrule it.

Nyx · 14/03/2017 23:09

Sorry, I went off the point a bit. I guess I meant that the Scottish government can be overruled on anything and in this case, very much so.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 14/03/2017 23:11

As I understand it the Sewell convention was nothing more than a courtesy, it's not that Sewel was not an issue in the Brexit case, but that the Sewel convention has no meaning in law and can be perfectly legally ignored in all circumstances.

Nyx · 14/03/2017 23:12

A waste of effort? What should we be doing if not trying to assess the impact? I have EU national friends, one with her own business, who have had the rug pulled from under them. Surely we are all trying to assess the impact?

NoLotteryWinYet · 14/03/2017 23:15

On the new statesman article: surely Scotland already has the benefits of EU membership, and isn't growing at a cracking pace. rUK is going to be disadvantaged by Brexit and that somehow means Scotland starts doing a whole heap more trade with the EU? For an 'economist' that article is deliberately evasive 'Scotland does 'a lot more' trade with rUK than the EU' pfff

Thegruffalowswife · 14/03/2017 23:21

Ok nyx but that is quite similar to what will happen with my family if scotland goes it alone. It is also unlikely to fix things for your friend.

Nyx · 14/03/2017 23:22

Scotland is currently in the UK. Yes voters think Scotland's economy would be more likely to grow if we made our own economic decisions instead of sending all our cash to Westminster and being given some back, not to mention having Westminster borrow on our behalf and spend lots on our behalf on things that don't benefit us and we didn't ask for and don't want.

Nyx · 14/03/2017 23:23

Thanks for the debate, past my bedtime now!

NoLotteryWinYet · 14/03/2017 23:23

What do you say about the 9.5% GDP deficit nyx?

user1488581876 · 14/03/2017 23:25

You can't say that staying within Brexit Britain has much in the way of hope for Scotland in the near, medium or even far future. All i can see are job losses, wage drops, yet more austerity, resources being bartered away, Scotland's voice being roundly ignored.

I agree.

The Tory party have just one single seat in Scotland. Scotland is completely irrelevant to UK government.

Scotland will take an absolute battering in Brexit.

The BRingErsofbullXIT just want Nicola Sturgeon to shut up and do what she is told and just spread the manure over Scotland.

Thegruffalowswife · 14/03/2017 23:28

Farmers will be delighted!!! Is that in place of the subsidies then all this free manure?

Thegruffalowswife · 14/03/2017 23:31

You can't really expect them to listen to a party that only has destruction in mind.

It would have been a lot harder for them if scotland and England's lefties voted together for one party.

Keeptrudging · 14/03/2017 23:39

Yes last time, still yes. Nicola Sturgeon had no choice but to go this way, due to Brexit. It's in their manifesto, as anyone who voted SNP knew, it's hardly a secret.

I don't think it's beneficial to Scotland's businesses, farming, fishing, tourism etc to come out of EU. EU citizens living in UK are already being sent 'prepare to leave' letters, having chosen to make the UK their home (in some cases for decades). Scotland needs migrant workers, they make a huge contribution. I have many EU friends who don't want to have to leave, they're happy here and are very worried.

It depends where you get your information from, I suppose. Mainstream media aren't particularly neutral on this issue. Personally, I don't think Nicola Sturgeon would have risked a 2nd referendum so soon after the first if she hadn't had some pretty clear indications from Europe as to how it would be received. If it hadn't been for Brexit, I believe 2nd ref might have happened 10-15 years down the line, with a bigger indication of potentially winning.

I would like both sides to put together a clear picture of what Brexit and Independence will look like, without the lies from last time. The value of the pound has dropped significantly Brexit vote, we've already lost business/workers.

On a side note, 'Scottish education a shambles'. Oh really? I teach in Scotland, it's not perfect by a long shot, but at least every class in Scotland has a fully qualified teacher teaching it, not a TA. Children can generally go to their local (non-selective) school, there's no scrabbling around desperately trying to find a school. No Free Schools/private franchises running schools. University education is free. Increased free nursery hours.

I don't think May has a leg to stand on. Brexit is by far the most divisive and destructive political act in my lifetime.

SheSparkles · 14/03/2017 23:42

My signature took the petition to 91358 😊

user1488581876 · 15/03/2017 00:09

On the new statesman article: surely Scotland already has the benefits of EU membership

Many companies are already making plans to leave the UK in the event of a hard Brexit. When the rUK leaves the EU, Scotland will be in very strong position a attract many of these firms.

Scotland won't have to compete with the rUK for jobs, investment, etc. as the rUK will be out of the running.