Second referendum announced!

[Isadora2007]

😳

Will your vote change next time?

Exactly, that's huge. I just looked at some of the highest rated petitions (those with circa. 200,000 signatures) and the top rated constituencies were about that level. (I'm not counting the Donald Trump petition as that was pretty extraordinary, but even then the absolute top constituencies had about 9%.)

For this petition, most Scottish constituencies are now around or approaching that level, and the petition signing is still in full flow so they will likely go even higher.

At this rate the only ones left in England could be the expats sent back from the EU and an awful lot of little Englanders

Yep of course that is exactly what England will be like back in the real world it won't be like that at all though

wow - I looked at the 5 charts - the current Scottish deficit is 9.5% of GDP, the worst of any EU state and this is the situation before Brexit has properly happened, and before independence. Genuinely terrifying stuff - I'd love to know where the Yes voters think the money to fund this or a larger deficit is going to come from. I wonder what sort of income tax rises per person this would equate to.

NoLottery this is my thoughts too. Where is all the money going to come from for these empty promises they keep making.

Very scary that yes voters just don't see there is no money. All the promised oil incomings means nothing IMO.

I want to stay in the UK and my vote won't change.

someone in the no campaign needs to start talking about the amount of tax rises that'd be needed to fund the current level of deficit and put it in concrete terms, and then model for some macro-shocks and extrapolate. Of course the SNP won't care about balancing the budget in the short term but they may be forced to eventually. The IMF running Scotland?

It needs to be clearer that the best way to protect the badly off in Scotland is not independence because of these economic facts - even with the bloody tories in Westminster at the moment. Can't anyone see that the nationalist America-first push in the US that got Trump elected, the little Englander push that contributed to Brexit and the push for Scottish independence - it's all part of the same rising tide of knee jerk nationalism as a solution to political problems.

someone in the no campaign needs to start talking about the amount of tax rises that'd be needed to fund the current level of deficit and put it in concrete terms, and then model for some macro-shocks and extrapolate

I agree (and the Yes side needs the same). It'd be helpful to see some properly worked through theories and facts , rather than both sides assuming the one with the best sound bite or most viral Twitter meme will win. The voters are intelligent enough to cope with pieces more than 140 characters long.

Icklewickle - are you seriously talking about empty promises as a no voter? Remember the "vow"?
No one covered themselves in glory there.

It's awful. We have so little scrutiny of Holyrood and the Scottish Government because literally the ONLY political story is about independence.

My DC are in the education system here and I sometimes want to scream with frustration because the only political story is One Issue Nicola.

And then there is the economy. The SNP know it won't work, they've had it carefully explained to them. But ask Yes campaigners about central banking or currency or how they will pay £ mortgages when we aren't backed by the Bank of England and they think you are making it up. Basic economics is part of Project 'Fear'. This will only get worse as the quality of maths teaching continues to fall....

her sectarian rant was stupid but not a deal breaker at all to me, we've all said stupid things we've regretted when we were young

Speak for yourself. I have never engaged in sectarian ranting.

Her idiotic comments about how she voted in the EU referendum was less than 9 months ago. She clearly has no principles, no ability to think for herself andcan't even hide those attributes. Heaven help us if she is charge of anything

Why is that,Lass?

I don't think of myself as Scottish. I don't want my nationality stripped from me and another one foisted on me.

I looked at the 5 charts - the current Scottish deficit is 9.5% of GDP, the worst of any EU state and this is the situation before Brexit has properly happened, and before independence. Genuinely terrifying stuff - I'd love to know where the Yes voters think the money to fund this or a larger deficit is going to come from. I wonder what sort of income tax rises per person this would equate to

You will wait a long time for any Nat to deal with any of those points. Don't you know we should not ask hard questions? Just believe in Nicola and it will all be fine.

Agree, the lack of critical thinking is desperate. You'd hope the Yes vote would have to address how they'd get into the EU with a budget deficit that's worse than Greece at the present time and very likely to worsen...will people vote for Scottish austerity to get into the EU? Economy worse than Greece should be slogan you'd hope some people could understand.

Look at the petition! It's still going well.

Genuine question: you often hear that 'The Vow' was not met. How not? The Smith commission was formed, and greater powers were given to Scotland, as was promised (in fact I think some were even handed back!). The Barnett formula has been maintained (as far as I'm aware), and no-one is seriously suggesting curbing the powers already held at Holyrood. What was promised but not delivered?

Genuine question: you often hear that 'The Vow' was not met. How not?

Indeed. If that is the best Yes can come up with.

The Vow was irrelevant to every no voter I know. It's a farce to suggest that The Vow swung it.

Agreed. I don't know anyone who changed their minds because of the vow.

Most were angry that it was made because of one wobble in the polls.

Yes, nobody would have changed their minds because of that. It was far too late in the game for that.

The New Statesman has an article stating that Scottish independence is much more economically attractive now: www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/03/brexit-makes-scottish-independence-much-more-economically-attractive

I don't know anyone who changed their minds because of it either. I was more wondering why anyone would think it hadn't been met as 'The Vow' is often trotted out as an example of Westminster lies or something, but it seems to me that everything that was promised was delivered.

Youcannot. that's what I thought.

I'm not an economist but that puff piece is appallingly badly written. It's full of wishful thinking , assumptions with no basis and glosses over the declining oil revenues.

You will have to do a lot better than that.

New statesman is always full of glorious guff!

I don't hear any yes voters taking about the vow but since you ask, one of the first points was that the Scottish parliament to be permanent. The Scotland Act 2016 appeared to enact this - "The act recognises the Scottish Parliament and a Scottish Government as permanent among UK's constitutional arrangements, with a referendum required before either can be abolished". However, the Sewel convention has been shown to have no legal substance and can be disregarded, as in the Miller case in the Supreme court.