Second referendum announced!

[Isadora2007]

😳

Will your vote change next time?

The petition is going great guns. It won't have any impact but it's reassuring to feel so many others feel as I do.

i agree fontella's posts are excellent.

Lalelou I think that they'd wait for the next opportunity to call a referendum..

I think Sturgeon had said prior to this that they wanted to wait till polls were showing 60 % support.

I am so, so sorry for the posters who are English, living in Scotland and experience abuse for it. I can see how it would happen too. MIL's favourite Facebook page, that she constantly shares shite, poorly spelled memos from, is How Can I Be Guilty of Treason When England is Foreign to Me? For actual fuck's sake. When we went to London she constantly remarked on any St George's X flags, saying 'they won't let us fly our Saltire.' Who won't???!

Believe me, most of us Scots find this shit ridiculous (I hope) but the fucking SNP bring out the worst in some people. Who the hell wants two referenda in a decade? This is not meant to be nasty about any Yessers (most of my friends, tbh) or pledge any allegiance to the Union as IMO it's an outdated relic of shameful colonialist practices but I just hate the fucking SNP and the way they've handled things.

I'm not sure what would happen politically. On a personal level, DH and I would leave the UK. Which is also not 100% clear until Brexit terms are finalised. I know he would be able to stay as we are married, but depending on terms he may have to give up British citizenship eventually if I understand correctly.

Me too Coop

i feel that nationalism of any kind is an outdated relic personally. We should be trying to fight global tax-dodging corporations, raising living standards across the world and not concentrating on sticking 2 fingers up at the English whilst beggaring ourselves.

Ahhh - the 'renewables' argument...
At the moment they don't exist - or at least no where near at the scale needed to make any meaningful impact on the economy.
You need massive investment to get them in place - not just eg build the wind turbines but all the infrastructure - roads to construct them and then maintain them - pylons to transport the electricity etc. And you are unlikely to recover those costs in the foreseeable future - we would have to borrow to pay for that and I'm not sure we could in our current economic circumstances - or if we can we would be paying huge amounts of interest.
And actually I am pretty sure without subsidies wind farms (at least) don't even break even. I think the plan was (in the last ref) to get grants and subsidies from the EU ....and even then it was pie in the sky. Also seeing (as understand it) Scotland will have to leave the EU anyway and then reapply - we won't be in a position to do that for a good long while.

Never mind the environment impact - potential impact on wildlife and also on tourism etc.
We 'could' be a huge supplier of renewables is like saying I could run a marathon. I probably could - eventually - but it would involve years of hard work and dedication..and luck that I don't get ill or have a serious injury etc - it is no way certain. I wouldn't want to stake the future of my DCs on it.

Was a yes before and am still yes.

What about British/English nationalism that fuelled Brexit?
And those of us who want independence but are not nationalists? Or even Scottish? Such as me and English PIL?

I certainly don't deny it exists, but there is abuse from both sides. I have been shocked by the way DH has been spoken to in parts of England (well, mainly talked about loudly enough for us to hear rather than to his face). I haven't escaped it myself. But our English family are lovely, so are the English friends I am pleased to have. To say that independence is fuelled by anti-English sentiment on the whole is a little insulting to so many of us.

And if MIL shares one more fucking crappy poem or song about brave Caledonia I will murder her. Sorry, I'm 9 weeks pregnant and irritable. If there's one thing that winds me up more than the SNP it's shite poems about an idealised Scotland that I don't recognise, that say nothing of the diversity and creativity of now and everything about thistles and Flora McDonald. Tellingly, the profile pic for MIL's favourite Facebook page is Mel Gibson in Braveheart. People like MIL seem to be swallowing shit that has been devised for tourists.

None of this is Scotland to me and I think we're better and smarter than this.

what about it? I didn't vote for Brexit. You cannot deny that nationalist sentiment is massively behind the drive for independence. I've had people quote outlander to me - a fictional work by an American!

Yes I'm lucky i am hard of hearing I'm sure..

Please don't take it as an insult D1az as it's clearly not you doing the slagging and school bullying.

And that is where it actually starts to bother me personally.

A dirty look or mutterings , nah.

I agree agentcoops

Hopefully the petition keeps going up. If May is looking for excuses not to let Nikki have her referendum I am happy to put my name to one of those excuses.

this time I don't think it should be referred to as "Scotlands independence referendum" and should be referred to as "Nicolas Independence referendum"

If the petition gets widespread support that would underline the lack of popular support, and take the wind out of Nicola's sails a bit. Especially if it's debated in parliament and she's forced to also acknowledge that polls consistently show a majority against it - she can't then pretend to be acting on Scotland's wishes. It might also strengthen any arguments for waiting till after the Brexit negotiations, using a more neutral question and so on.

D1az - racism is never right, wherever it is experienced. Dismissing it as 'abuse on both sides' or suggesting that it somehow 'ok' because your husband experienced it in parts of England, is deflecting and minimising the experience of so many people, including children, who experience it in their day-to-day lives in Scotland. It is a significant problem, made much, much worse by the rhetoric of some elements of the 'Yes' campaign. You can go on Twitter any day you choose and see people being told by cybernatz to 'go home if you don't like it' or 'go back where you came from', and much worse. I can tell you that all of my children have experienced similar in RL. The problem is made worse by the SNP's inability/disinclination to rein in the worst excesses of their followers. It is this that made the 2014 indyref so nasty and divisive and no doubt it will happen this time too.

Many posters clearly have no appetite for another 'going low, name-calling' spat.
Perhaps we could raise the bar and standard of debate here at least?
By using temperate considered language and er, possibly, the correct titles of the protagonists?
You dont have to like them, or even respect them, just refrain from demeaning them.
Just wondering what we would think of "Winnie Churchill" or "Barrie Obama" ........lets not normalise the endemic disrespect for Trump.

As an English person I know many Scots living in England and it wouldn't even occur to me or anyone I know to treat them any differently. I have never heard a Scotsman verbally abused, even at a rugby match!

What would be the situation re funding an independent Scotland when the people there get about £1000 per head more spent on them than the English equivalent?

And have you never head of Maggie thatcher?

Should I reprimand people every time I hear that said? Come on... really?

I'm not waiting patiently for sturgeon to die so I can dance on her grave and sing ding dong the witch is dead.

I called her Nikki which is a perfectly normal abbreviation of Nicola.

What happens if Theresa May does say no like it's being reported?

If may does say no and for another 20 years. THERE IS A GOD AFTER ALL!!

my money'd be on the SNP holding a referendum anyway. I don't think she can say no otherwise it'll fuel the fire!

I doubt TM will say no outright - she's too smart for that and knows that it would be playing into the SNP's hands. She might delay until after the Brexit negotiations, which is the most reasonable option all round, including for Scotland (as we'd then know more about what we were voting for). NS is already making noises about respecting Scotland and letting them set the timing and question, but I doubt many people will get too upset if TM makes her wait until a more reasonable time.