Second referendum announced!

[Isadora2007]

😳

Will your vote change next time?

I'd also like to add, I'm English , have lived in Scotland for over 20 years, and have 6 children living here. There is a lot of racism. It used to be just the jokey, light-hearted kind, but still there. In the run-up to the last referendum, it got really nasty at times and that hasn't really gone away. I can only imagine it getting worse now. I can completely understand why people say they are going to leave. If you are not English living in Scotland how the hell do you know what we experience day-to-day?

plectrum for me I don't see this as a toss up rather than 2 bad things which need to be fought, independence and Brexit - why multiply the disaster of Brexit? Scotland of course can govern, but it'll be much poorer, the idea it'll be some utopian land of wine and honey won't match the high high tax and paltry services reality. The economic fundamentals of Scotland haven't improved since last time.

Oh and who suffers most during economic uncertainty? The poorest. Rich and skilled people are mobile, they can leave sinking ships. The ideas that a yes vote for independence is a vote to help the poor is woeful.

Fontella, that 'we' would be the 1,661,191 Scots who voted to remain.

I think the whole Indyref2 is going to turn on the financials - here's hoping Nicola has a clear and coherent plan this time around! And I sincerely hope that the option of a currency union with England is ditched once and for all very early on in the campaign. But there needs to be an answer to the oil price crash as well. If she can answer:

1. What will the currency be? Scottish pound? Bitcoin? Something else? We won't be able to start with the Euro even if it is the long-term goal.
2. Can we cope financially if the price of oil stays low?

then I think she'll win. Although if Brexit and Trump have taught us anything, it's that lying about how your economy is going to work if you get your own way is a winning political strategy.

Well that's what the SNP did last time...

I agree lizzyj4 I'm English living in Scotland, married to a Scot. There is an undercurrent of dislike at best. Sometimes, it's overt. It made me raise an eyebrow when Wee Nick tried to grab the moral high ground over Brexit with the 'we're lovely and tolerant here' rhetoric. EU citizens, you are welcome, this is your home, etc. I kept adding the coda, 'except if you're English'.

Oh dear. I really hate the way modern politics is so divisive. I'm English living in England so have no skin in the game, but I DO. Please don't do this.

i wish the lib-dems and the non-Corbyn bits of the labour party would form and anti-brexit coalition. We've gotten into this sorry mess because the SNP are being allowed to pose as the main opposition to the tories. Hmmm must stop daydreaming...

DSIL DSIL and DNIECE were no last time and still are.

DNEPHEW x2 were yes but are now no.

This just proves that NS and the SNP care for nothing but independence at any cost.
Indyref2 is just going to add to the uncertainty for business etc especially in Scotland. It is going to do more damage. There is no sensible reason for it.

Possibly they are counting on WM being too distracted negotiating Brexit to campaign?
Also I have never been sure about the 62% voting to remain in Scotland - I was on a thread here with people debating which was the best way to vote in Brexit so we didn't get another indyref...as it is it was the worst possible result.
But as others have said it wasn't economically feasible before - it definitely isn't now.
I don't believe Scotland could survive as an independent country and maintain the current standards of living not in the EU. Which is why the SNP were encouraging people to vote remain. Also we need immigration - more people, more tax payers to have any chance of thriving as an independent nation.
Scotland is sparsely populated - but that is because a lot of the land is uninhabitable - and we want/need to preserve our countryside to encourage tourism. We wouldn't be such a draw if the Highlands were covered in new builds (and wind farms).
The only reason the SNP are in power is because the Labour party is in such a mess. There is no viable alternative if you don't want to vote Tory or Lib Dem. The SNP targeted their policies, rhetoric towards Labour supporters as Labour had the biggest support in Scotland - if it had been the Tories they would be more right wing.

They don't genuinely want to improve the lot of the poorest people - because then there would be no reason to change things, people won't want to risk voting for independence.
The attainment gap widening absolutely sums that up and the fuck up they have made of education.
NHS Scotland shouldn't be struggling as much as NHS England...it hasn't had to deal with the same level of immigration in a short time span.
And at the end of the day people in Scotland get more money spent on them per head than everywhere in the UK bar Northern Ireland.
As you have probably guessed - was No, still No
(And really really hate the SNP -I didn't think I could like them any less than I did ...they have proved me wrong - I think they are the most devious, nasty political party in the UK.)

Unlucky I agree so much with all your points.

Agree unlucky. I posted similar on the other thread.

Wanting a referendum in the middle of Brexit negotiations shows it is independence whatever the cost and not the best for Scotland that sturgeon wants.

Was a no before and even more of a no now.
We'll be fucked!

absolutely agree unlucky - it's being positioned as giving scottish people a choice over brexit but it's a naked power grab that will mean Scotland's people lose twice.

Scotland does FOUR times more trade with the rest of the UK than it does with ALL of the rest of Europe. How anyone can look at that statistic and say our union with Europe is more important to Scotland than our union with the rest of the UK, baffles me.

Trade across borders.
If the UK splits into 2 or more of its constituent parts, trade is going to keep flowing both ways through the borders. The terms may (or may not) change but imports/exports will continue to happen.

That's optimistic! Trade will be dampened if more costs are imposed hold - or even if there is a threat that taxes will change and costs will rise on the firms trading. Saying that trade will still happen is simplistic, the question is will it happen at the same level? If not, job losses are inevitable. A divorce from the UK will mean a long period of uncertainty for firms, and this will cause them to delay investment decisions, delay increasing employment and mean a long period of wait and see at the very least. Why would you risk that?

Over the longer term, I think imports from Scotland to England, and from England to Scotland would be broadly similar to what they are currently.

Longer term, Scotland will have a lot of valuable renewables (power and water for a start), available for export and England/rUK would be a natural market for those. England/rUK would buy, they are unlikely to turn down economically sensible deals just because we are no longer part of the UK.

Northern England has plenty of water. The far south is closer to wet Normandy if they really get desperate.

I work in construction / property, and investment funds have been delaying decisions on funding approvals since NS made her announcement after Brexit. That's not been improved by yesterday's announcement, and that's all down to the uncertainty. It had only just started recovering after the last referendum.

It depends on the trade deals that are struck if independence happens hold, interim uncertainty will be enough to push some firms to cease trading and layoff people. Where is the money for the massive investment in renewables coming from, with your minute new tax base?

yes, who would invest in Scottish property at this stage? You'd have to be Dr Pangloss.

IT is similarly a bellweather, I can't see any huge new IT projects being undertaken soon. Firms will batten down to business as usual mode.

Great post Fontella .
Really emphasises the idiocy + downright irresponsibility of Sturgeon's position.

What would happen to NS and SNP if they lost the second indy ref?