Second referendum announced!

[Isadora2007]

😳

Will your vote change next time?

Voted no last time and will definitely do so again this time. What really bothers me about this is that it means another 2 years or more of extra uncertainty for Scottish businesses, as if Brexit wasn't bad enough. With all this and the massive rise in business rates they seem to be doing their best to kill off as many Scottish businesses as possible.

The really bizarre thing about reading these threads is with every comment on the disruptive nature of indyref2 & the impact on Scotland, the same comments apply to Brexit. And that's why this move on Sturgeon's part has really thrown the cat amongst the pigeons. What can may realistically argue in defence of the union remaining intact when she can't offer the reassurance & stability that was on the table the last time? She's in a real bind with this, and with every comment on the disaster that indyref2 will be, there are echoes over Brexit too. You can actually picture her tying herself in knots trying to articulate this in a way that doesn't echo over Brexit - I just don't know how she'll manage it.

Yes last time and yes this time.

Lass the Greens have said they will support the motion in the Scottish Parliament, so there will be a majority.

Can I ask a question of the Yes voters? How important is the EU to your plans for an independent Scotland? What if Yes wins, Scotland leaves the UK and the EU collapses while you're waiting to achieve the financial viability needed to apply? I have read several articles in which the author is pretty much convinced of the EU's demise at some point in the near future. Would that cause you major concern or change your vote in the indyref?

Hmmm well this is going to be another whirlwind over a sewage plant. I am English, and separating the politics from culture for just a moment Scotland has always punched above it's weight on the world stage, and will continue to do so irrespective of what is decided over an indyref2. I just wanted to get that in before project bullshit fear gets wound up again.

There are always challenges with whichever way you go, but over the long term Scotland is more than capable of making it. The main thing that saddens me is how this is going to set Scot against Scot again.

I'm almost past caring what happens politically as whatever happens the least able will always pay the highest cost. I've become so despondent with politicians whichever stripe they happen to be.

Politics should be reflective of culture, and were that ever true it stopped being so a long time ago, so if Scotland decides to leave you'll be missed but always welcome, and I speak culturally and not politically, because no politician can take that away...

I'm not past caring, independence is an even worse outcome for Scotland post Brexit - the reason the NHS isn't so bad is because of the extra funding. Remember independence multiplies the economic uncertainty introduced by Brexit, it is facile to say that the uncertainty exists due to Brexit, it is not a fixed quantity.

I lived in Scotland until the racism got the better of me. Would that I had the opportunity to vote from south of the border I would vote to let go of Stotland.

I suspect many many of my fellow Englishmen would agree.

placemarking

Rortycrankie no it wouldn't. Scotland can govern itself and thrive like any other small country with amazing resources.

NoLottery, there's nothing about Brexit & how it's being handled that convinces me that route is quantifiably more attractive to me as a scot. Neither is indyref2 but there lies the problem - there's nothing attractive or positive for me in the whole Brexit fiasco that I didn't vote for, don't want & am not assured by the glee emanating from those currently in charge of Brexit & what they are looking to gain from it. The lack of anything coherent or resembling clear pros & cons, costs & gains, really worries me. And that's where Sturgeon has really thrown a massive firework into this scenario because I genuinely don't want to have to choose between Brexit & indyref2 & have no clue which of the 2 options is the least fucked up.

There's certainly a bigger economy & larger mass population to absorb the 'hits' from whatever lies ahead, but in a climate where the tories are effectively unchallenged because there is no effective opposition, with the prospect of Tory rule for the foreseeable future, I have absolutely no faith whatsoever that Brexit is any more attractive as an option or will be in Scotland's interests. I'm pretty certain that Scotland will be one of the biggest losers at the end of that process - it's one of the reasons I voted remain because I know we are better off as part of the single market/member of the EU. It's very clear to me that Scotland's interests are to be used as a bargaining tool & the fact there's no cross party/cross regional input or involvement in the Brexit process of negotiating this exit deal, is a major concern for me.

I don't want Brexit because I can see what we are going to lose from leaving the EU & I don't want indyref2 either because the last time was really difficult & unsettling & I can do without all that uncertainty again. But Brexit is the same crap different angle & this time it's the tories who are screwing us over.

I'm hoping the looming indyref2 is enough to ensure that those Tory twats currently charged with dealing with Brexit are reigned in to the extent they don't fuck this up & Brexit genuinely is the better option. I just don't think they're actually capable of being magnanimous enough to do what's best for the UK as a whole & Scotland in particular as they have thus far shown nothing but arrogance & disdain for anyone who questions what they actually intend to do.

This whole situation is a nightmare & I have no clue if there's any way we can avoid Brexit being a total fuck up given the shambles that labour is & the massive rebuilding the libdems need to do to get anywhere near becoming the opposition we need to try and keep those Tory twats in check.

Itisnoteasy that makes me :(

Scotland voted to remain, over 60% don't want a referendum. It is horrible experiencing xenophobia here. I know what it is like, but there are a lot of scottish people who want to stay. Saying you would let them go is really awful. Many of us would like to see more people from the rest of the UK standing up for us and signing the petition to stop nicola sturgeon calling another referendum against the will of the majority in scotland. We are British too.

It is not mean to support scotland staying in the union if you are english, Welsh, or northern irish (although NS wold almost certainly portray it as such) The uk is not curtailing our freedom as we chose to stay.

We voted to stay and want the UK and many of us would like moral support from the rest of the union to stay. So please feel free to sign the petition.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/180642

I don't care if YES wins, they didn't accept NO winning last time. So if Yes wins then best out of 3.

To paraphrase Sturgeon "they can't drag us out of a union without our permission".

But the UK vote to leave took us out of the EU. All we are talking about is how small you slice the democratic mandate.

If the central belt votes Yes and the Borders and Dumfries and Galloway vote No how could Sturgeon in all conscience (hah) drag them out of the UK?

Since 2014 the Scottish Government has chosen to ignore the large majority of the voters in the referendum.

So they don't have my permission.

Pulling out of the UK after Brexit is like jumping off a cliff then stabbing yourself on the way down just in case

I am English, and separating the politics from culture for just a moment Scotland has always punched above it's weight on the world stage

Comments like this are just delusional.

Scotland hasn't been an independent country for over 300 years and it certainly didn't punch above its weight then or now. Scotland has been a constituent part of the UK, and it is the UK collectively, that has punched above its weight on the world stage.

The reality is that Scotland is a tiny nation of 5 million, with a tiny shared island land mass. Economically it would go from being part of one of the top 6 world economies dropping way down the list, especially given that prices from oil revenue have dropped through the floor.

In EU terms it would be behind Denmark, Finland and Slovakia in terms of political influence, going from a major player as part of the UK, to a minor player with substantially less clout in Brussels than the likes of Portugal, Hungary and the Czech Republic. That is after it's gone through the process of rejoining, which at the most optimistic estimates would take 4-5 years and involve a commitment to adopting the Euro, and we all know how well that has worked out for the other small countries of the Eurozone!

It is planning to leave a Union that provides it with trade worth 50 billion per annum, to sign up to a single market that provides it with trade that is worth less than a quarter of that, and that is based on Holyrood's own figures. It wants to leave a union where it has a degree of political autonomy, to sign up to one that seeks to erode the nation state and despises nationalism in all its forms.

If Scotland votes to become 'independent' then good luck, but let's not not delude ourselves that it's going to become some kind of major player on the world stage. Just because Nicola holds her press conferences on the podium with flags flying either side, like she's the leader of some great world power, doesn't change the fact that in global and even European terms, it's a minnow, both politically and economically.

The irony of all this is that it is the UK that is becoming truly independent, whilst the current Scottish administration can't wait to sign it up to the shackles of the EU which itself is on very shaky ground with the never ending problems with the Euro and the rise of Euroscepticism in every member state - not least France and Italy - two of the remaining 'big three' now that the UK is leaving.

2016 was a year of seismic political change and with Dutch, French, German and Italian elections coming up, anything can happen. It would have made more sense for her to wait it out.

I am English, and separating the politics from culture for just a moment Scotland has always punched above it's weight on the world stage

You're just jelly the rest of the world actually likes us ;)

Aye, right..

Woohoo! Good for democracy. We never wanted out of the EU in Scotland. Bring on the next yes vote!!

Woohoo! Good for democracy. We never wanted out of the EU in Scotland. Bring on the next yes vote!!

Who is this 'we' you refer to?

Does it include the 1.1 million Scots who voted to quit the EU and who, along with the 300,000 leave voters in Northern Ireland .... gave LEAVE their overall UK majority?

And when the English say Scots are racist.. it's not what read here on on the news! Scots are 'punching above their weight' racist. 'Not capable of running their own country' racist. Who's the English kidding. They think we're a silly backwater with no clever politicians and no resources who are a drain on England... the big beautiful England. I'm like.... nah! Scotland is full of resources and people who want a cohesive society - left wing instead of the tories in England. And yes alot of Scots still want independence and to stay in the EU. Don't believe everything you believe....

Your posts are very heavy on rhetoric island but very light on facts.

I note you didn't respond to my question about the 1.1 million Scots who voted to leave the EU? What about them?