It seems DH is plotting to secretly meet an old GF while on a business trip. WWYD?

[CoteDAzur]

He hasn't breathed a word about this to me and it sounds like a rather romantic date.

WWYD?

noddy - If that is what it sounds like to you, I suggest you get your ears checked

In the future, if I suspect he is meeting someone when on a business trip, how the he'll am I going to know for sure if I don't "faff with" a PI?

Besides, I live in a principality with misogynist archaic divorce laws and proof of affair would help immesurably with divorce.

Not that you need to know any of that to attack someone's personal life, obviously, so fire away

She's not attacking you Cote. She's playing devils advocate and speaking from experience

I really am cote! It sounds to me like as soon as you confronted him he turned it into a 'you would have over reacted' scenario.this happened to me also a woman from work that i was also friends with at one time.i have a short fuse though and kicked him out which I am not suggesting either! You are incredibly patient.He was about to meet someone but you stopped it in time.I stopped ex from attending a work xmas thing in similar circumstances but they found a way.this was years ago though and we had no kids so was easy to end I am of the no negotiation variety wrt affairs

... and now you and your dh just needs to resolve WHY he felt the need to enter into an emotional affair with his exgirlfriend.

ALthough you have had the talk and feel reassured, I think you may still have a lot of ground to cover as a couple.

this is all quite strange. You seem very cold about all this unless its just your typing style or you are in shock?

He has (if I've got this right) arranged to meet this woman months ago and has been talking to her via fbook and (possibly?) phone for that long at least. He was going to take her to a restaurant special to you two. He then made business meetings around this date so he had an excuse to go (or pretended he had made them, i can't tell), he didnt get his secretary to book the hotel room (perhaps because he was booking a double), he mentions nothing to you and obviously wasn't going to, she sends him a message about 'getting cold feet', you question him and he says that it was just a cpoincedence (so lies to your face) then changes it and says her parents etc were going, and you're NOT feeling insecure??

Why haven't you looked at the fb messages, if the parents really were going you'd soon see from his replies. If all the messages are deleted you'll know your H is (still) lying to you.

I'm not trying to be harsh but either you're in shock or well I'm not really sure but its obvious what he was up to to outsiders so why are you not even investigating slightly (eg read the fb messages).

Sorry but you also don't know its his 'first offence' as you say, it could well not be

Agree with everything WWIFN said, this is just the start I think.

Ich why do they always turn nasty

cote. If I were you, I'd want to get to the bottom of why your dh plotted such an elaborate deception. I wouldn't be able to go back to status quo. counselling? talking further? It just seems like he's trying to brush it all aside You on the other hand say you're satisfied it's all resolved. Do you truly believe it is?

By stopping this meeting, I see it as you having created space to resolve any issues on dh mind. unless that's done, how will you trust him?

Oh dear Cote, I think you are getting very defensive about people genuinely trying to help here. It's often best to get people's views without sugar coating and is the beauty of MN, I think, because our friends might dress it all up and sometimes the message gets obscured for that.

No, read nothing into my H not being described as DH - half the time I forget to use the Mumsnet acronyms in my posts - but to me, he is very much my darling husband and I am relieved and happy we have weathered what was a terrible storm, coming out stronger the other side.

I think what posters (and I) are trying to say is that it's pretty impossible to restore trust and emotional honesty within a partnership while there are secrets, denials, delusions and suspicions. And I can tell you from personal experience that achieving complete honesty in your marriage is a real high - if that is what you want of course.

Hmm. I think you have to leave it for now but keep eyes and ears open. May never happen again, but you never know. Hopefully he shat himself when he realised you found out, and it has put him off ever trying anything like that again

I agree with WWIFN about the element of self delusion practiced by the deceiving party in any kind of affair.

This bothers me:
'He said "But honey you wouldn't mind it if I met xx (another ex-gf)"' -- it makes me wonder about the level of self delusion on his part; it is an attempt to intellectualise the whole thing and turn it into some theoretical argument. If he's an intelligent man, he must surely know exactly what you were saying to him about honesty and understand your taking exception to the underhand and deceitful element of his behaviour. Trying to set the incident on a legalistic level is emotionally dishonest of him, both to himself and to you.

The deliberate obtuseness on his part is rather defensive of him, an indication that he's playing a game of splitting hairs with you and maybe with himself too. Not a good sign. He is not really acknowledging what happened, which is a lot of deceit, not taking responsibility for his actions.

I think the two of you need to find a good counsellor and talk, talk, talk.

"I think what posters (and I) are trying to say is that it's pretty impossible to restore trust and emotional honesty within a partnership while there are secrets, denials, delusions and suspicions. And I can tell you from personal experience that achieving complete honesty in your marriage is a real high - if that is what you want of course."

The terms & conditions of marriage are always up for (re)negotiation between the two partners. And how people thinks that anyone is ever totally transparent and honest is beyond me - do you all really know everything that motivates your thoughts and actions? We all have so much unconscious stuff going on...

A little forgiveness and open-mindedness go a long way in making marriage sustainable. I'm sure Cote knows this, so stop being so harsh on her.

Bonsoir you sound like someone who has been cheated on and swallowed it tbh.

Bonsoir you make a good point in your post 21.59 about negotiation in marriage.

HOWEVER, Can you honestly say that you would apply your own wisdom to yourself if this exact scenario had played out in your own marriage?

I don't think anyone is being harsh on Cote, rather point out that she shouldn't be complacent and really 'forgiveness' and 'open-mindedness' are a HUGE ask in this situation.

I disagree Noddyholder. In fact Bonsoir comes across as almost over self-assured and dare I say it a tad superior to the rest of us mere mortals

I think Bonsoir sounds like someone with a very rational perspective. Nothing us ever totally black and white. (BTW I am very pro honesty: almost unhealthily so, but every couple has to work it out for themselves).

I think she said below that she is going to keep him under 'surveillance'. I can understand that. Once you confront the lie you can drive it underground. I would personally need to know exactly what I was dealing with before I played all my cards.

This sounds quite Machiavellian but, if he doesn't practice any more deceit, she will at least be genuinely reassured. If he does, she will know where she stands and what to do about it.

Sorry to persistently refer to you as 'she' Cote.

Cote, I understood why your DH's secretary sends you details about his trips, it sounds a practical and sensible arrangement.

But in this case he didn't forget that he was going on a 'business trip' next week. He planned it for a month. But he didn't mention it, instead let you find out for the first time through his secretary when she sent you the relevant details. I just find it a big breach of trust to keep from your wife the fact that, actually, you'll be out of the country/away in a month's time/three weeks/fortnight etc.

I am not getting all sensitive and rejecting helping hands here. But this is an absurd statement and a personal insult:

noddyholder Sun 13-Jun-10 15:48:22

Seriously if he tries it again you will still be faffing with PIs? you do sound as though you are willing to do anything to maintain teh status quo!

She is trying to say that I am willing to do anything (accept a cheating husband? Accept lies?) just so I will have a wedding ring on my finger and continue with the farce of a marriage

Maybe noddy means well but inadvertently projecting her own experience onto mine.

As I have explained a few times below, PI is the only way I can be sure that any future suspicion of a rdv in another city is correct and will provide proof in divorce, which is very important in the feudal jurisdiction I live in. If I use it in the future, it will not be "faffing", and it will not be because I "would do anything to maintain the status quo"

No not projecting at all.I wasn't married or kids as I said and so was easy to end straight away.I know everyone has secrets and no relationship is perfect but lies and deception are v hard to come back from and you sometimes use a lot of energy keeping track of someone you don't trust and this is soul destroying and exhausting.When the other person realises it is not a deal breaker for you they are less careful though and it usually crashes quicker ime (not just me friends).It is usually worth finding out what has led to this there is obviously something he is getting from this woman that he likes even if it is a shallow ego massage he needs to find that 'feeling' elsewhere with or without your help.Hides threadGood luck its not easy

Noddy - I hope you will not hide the thread. It is normal that our experience colors our perception of the world thereafter. Whether it happened to you or you witnessed a friend struggle too hard to hold onto her relationship, I'm guessing that is why you see it here.

DeFluffy, re "cold about this": I'm not a native speaker of English and this is how I've learned to write. I'm told it sounds cold and academic but that is not (always) intentional.

Also, this is how I do conflict in general - low on emotion and high on analysis & forward planning, like playing a chess game. It is not an endearing character trait but there is little I can do to change it.

In short, no, I'm not in shock.

I haven't looked into his FB because (1) I have already read all the FB messages anyone has sent him over the last couple of months, and (2) he has no doubt erased any dodgy correspondence at the time so not seeing them there wouldn't prove anything.

Sorry Cote, didn't realise re native language, thought you migt be in shock. I am rather err 'fiesty' naturally so would have had at least 15 screaming rows with DH by now. And I'm not saying that that would necessarily be a good thing.

I just think you're in for a difficult road ahead now and its sad. You'll need to 'check up' on him now hes shown how capable he is of lying and that's going to be bad for your mental health to have to keep wondering when/if etc. I think, in your situation, I would buy that book that everyone always recommends and I would recommend counselling to get to the bottom of why your dh a. needed this and b. thought it was ok to do.

I see what you mean re the PI and needin the info for a divorce if it comes to that.

Good luck x

I agree with those of you who have said that this is not yet resolved. I have a fair idea of why he strayed, at least in his mind, and intend to work on getting to the root of it all over several such talks. I just felt that badgering him to admit things I know to be true anyway would be counterproductive.

Counseling is a good idea but I have no idea where to find a good English-speaking one around here. I will have a look at expat websites.