DH says I've turned him into a chauvinist.

[HowDoIMakeHimUnderstand]

Have namechanged...

DH and I have been together 2 years, married for 1 and we have an 8 month old DD.

When we met, he was a laid-back, tolerant liberal man. Very much a live and let live sort of person...especially when it came to gender roles and women.

However, since we married and had DD, he has really started to alter his perception on relationships, marriage, men/women and just about everything.

We have a traditional set-up. I am a SAHM, he goes out to work. He works full time and has his own business, so he works really really long hours. As a result, I do all the housework, cooking and the majority of child-care.

Recently, he has begun to make comments in regards to a 'woman's place being in the home', he doesn't like the 'feminisation of the work-place' and says that when he was younger he was led to believe that there was no such thing as a happy housewife so he gave up thinking he would ever meet one. Until I came along apparently...

I am a v. laid back sort of person. I don't mind picking up dirty socks and towels off the floor, I couldn't give a fig what he wears, how he does his hair and I don't give a crap about clothes/jewelry/shopping etc. I hate confrontation, so if something trivial is bothering me, I just let it slide. Because of our personalities, DH is very much the dominant one in our relationship.

This is just who I am naturally, it is not planned nor is it a conscious choice.

However, it seems that my laid-back, do all the housework and generally let him get on with his business/go out to pub/fix up his cars, attitude is bringing about a really unpleasant side in him.

He now spouts forth that all women should stay home full time to raise their children and that no man really wants to do housework and change nappies...and any man that does so is just pandering to 'his woman' because he has been mis-led by the feminist movement and the media into thinking that he has to act 'like a pussy' in order to keep a woman...

I've tried pointing out how wrong this attitude is...I've argued with him. All to no avail. He just smiles at me and says 'Well, I'm just glad you're not a career-woman type. I go out to work, you stay home...this is how it should be'. He even said our marital set-up has made him a chauvinist.

What should I do? We are fundamentally very happy with our marriage, he treats me really well, is always there for me if I need him and is a completely devoted father. But I'm v. worried about the impact this new 'thinking' could have on our DD as she gets older...

Have I made a rod for my own back here? Should I stop behaving like this? What can I do?

Advice really needed here...thanks if you got this far!

THOS - We get The Guardian believe it or not! HATE The Mail...yuck.

For goodness sake, OP. You don't have to be white to be a racist.

When I know that. But the analogy is alarmist and insulting.

I'm very sorry if I insulted you OP, I truly didn't mean to. I have no idea of your ethnic origin and had not given it a second thought TBH, as I'm sure you have no idea of mine. The reason that I use that as an example is because nowadays racism is generally seen as vile and in need of stamping out. (although i am under no illusions that racism is a thing of the past, and realise that there are many idiots who still maintain racist views, they are unacceptable in the media for instance, and in most social occasions). People accused of making racist remarks do and should suffer in the esteem of everyone that knows them. For some reason, woman-hating remarks like those your DH makes are still acceptable. Well, I find them very upsetting and hurtful, insulting yes. Why should women be banded together as a group and marked down as fit only to serve men? Why should those who break your DH's rules for appropriate female behaviour be called "harpies and bitches and butch lesbians"? These are terms (lovely that he uses "lesbians" as a term of abuse btw) that have been used to denigrate and insult women for a LONG time. They hurt.

I hope this explains to you why I make such a comparison. It's not perfect, and I'm sorry if I've caused you personal upset.

But when you have children, your real opinions do filter down to them, because as parents you're not always on your "best behaviour". It's not a question of making him "think like you do", but I think we, in adult relationships, should question our prejudices (because that's what it is), and ensure that what we think and believe isn't totally groundless. I couldn't live with someone who just thought I was the exception that proved the rule.

Maybe it's time for everyone to stop with the negativity and let it go now, OP has done her best for goodness sake ........

elephants no worries. I know no personal offence was caused, it's just obviously a really sensitive issue, the racism thing.

The difference being that DH never said that all women are lesbians, harpies and bitches simply because they are women.

That he referred to any women as the above is totally unacceptable, but to analogise it with racism and especially slavery, it would have to be accepted that he used those terms to refer to all women simply on account of their gender and not on account of their actions.

Well, in fairness, being referred to as a lesbian if you are a lesbian is just fine...

Okay so you want him not to use rude words, but you don't mind that he still thinks that women ought to be in the home, and those that don't are an example of all that is wrong with this PC-ridden society which has become emasculated by harpy lesbians who have jobs and don't know their place?

Because you wouldn't presume to tell him that his outlook is daft and unreasonable?

Okaaay

next time you do his laundry, make his lunch and do all that stuff - you must remember what his views are women are. Because that matters. Being an SAHM doesn't matter - how you are viewed by your dh does matter.

Unless you agree with him, then you're both sorted

I'm not sure it's actually us with the negativity, kitpuss, sweet as that thought is. I don't think that men are a bunch of sexually-incontinent wankers, for example, even though I know some marriages which have broken up due to the husband's infidelity. I think everyone's basically quite nice, a sunshiney attitude when compared with the OP's DH's loathing of 51% of the population based on chromosomes alone.

Erm, so what actions may a woman take that render it acceptable to call her a harpy, a bitch or butch?

I see HowDoI, it's obviously my mistake. I thought he was applying those words with a pretty broad brush - to any woman who stepped out of the obedient housewife role that he thinks is appropriate, basically (so millions and millions of women in this country and around the world). Is that not the case? If he's applying it to individual women that's obviously still foul but doesn't necessarily indicate prejudice.

Good post, 100x

Mine was in reply to OP's post of 15:17 - this thread's moving so fast!

If there are actions that make it okay to call a woman a harpy/bitch - there must, then, be actions that make it okay to call black people niggas and wogs?

Or is bigotry only acceptable when it's applied to women

Ok, I guess some people are spoiling for a fight.

I was upset that my husband made some offensive remarks. It has only started happening recently. I wanted to nip it in the bud before it progressed.

I wasn't sure what to do. I spoke to people in rl and someone suggested I namechange on here and post.

I got some replies, thought about them and decided simply to show him the thread.

He was shocked, apologised and promised to curb the language.

Problem solved.

Last night there seemed to be some concern that I was in a potentially abusive situation. I've tried to show that no, I'm not and no one need to be concerned for me.

But it seems now I have done that, the tables have turned slightly and it's me in the firing line.

Well, I'm out. Thanks for the replies and comments...I appreciate some people have taken an awful lot of time to post on several occasions.

< He was shocked, apologised and promised to curb the language. >

Well, that's good, then. Seems the answer to your nickname question was: "show him what mumsnet thinks of it"

"to analogise it with racism and especially slavery, it would have to be accepted that he used those terms to refer to all women simply on account of their gender and not on account of their actions."

But he IS using those terms about women just because of their gender. If they were men who wanted to have jobs, he wouldn't call them names. It's just because they're women and he thinks women should all be a certain way, regardless of what they actually want. I think the analogy with racism is actually true. It's just very close to the bone because it reveals the real sentiment of what he's saying - that people should fit into certain roles just to please him/others.

This would seriously bother me. Yes he is being nice to you now, but what would happen if you couldn't or didn't want to fulfil his every wish? I don't think he'd be so nice then. You must realise this, either consciously or subconsicously, and so feel that you are always walking on eggshells.

I agree with WWIFN that you don't seem to have very high standards for what makes a good husband. Why is he leaving his clothes on the floor? Presumably he is over three years old...

It's up to you what you decide to do - you're not going to change his mind and ultimately it's only your own life that it's affecting/ruining. And your daughter's, obviously.

Oh dear, I'm sorry you see it that way

All I'm saying is that he changed the perimeters a bit didn't he? And whilst you thought you were doing your share, and he did his, out of mutual respect and love

you discovered that in fact your decision to be an SAHM has in fact fallen in with some wider held beliefs about women in general

and you were right to challenge him on this.

I just think that now you KNOW this - even if he curbs his language - it might make the folding of the laundry a little less pleasurable, and the cooking of his tea a tiny bit more less like an act of voluntary love

and if that is the case, then look again ...

It's not spoiling for a fight - really, it's not. But you said in your OP that you don't like confrontation, so I guess this seems like more of a mauling than it really is. I think people here are genuinely worried and sad for you that you just don't seem to feel that you deserve so much better than this.

One of the reasons I love my DH is I know he's set a high bar for what my daughter will expect from a man when she's older, and that my son has such a fine example to follow when he starts relationships. That's really, really important to me.

'a tiny bit less like an act of voluntary love'

Cheers Secunda : "But he IS using those terms about women just because of their gender. If they were men who wanted to have jobs, he wouldn't call them names." Exactly.

I'm not spoiling for a fight for fighting's sake. But I certainly am ready to argue with anyone who wants to put down me or my friends or my relatives or colleagues who are damn good at our jobs, clever and astute, or indeed any woman or girl, just because of our gender. If we don't want to stay at home and look after hearth and home, who are these people to tell us we should?

HowDoIMakeHim

Just seen your last post.

Hope it all works out for you and that not only does he curb his language but also his beliefs.

If not... you know where we are.

I want to ask Kitpuss again@

Do you give your DH a list of things he must get done at work each day?

The comparison with racism is absolutely bang on.

The reason you are insulted by it is because you don't want to admit that your husband is no better than a racist and his views no less ugly.

And yet that is the case and you are happy to put up with it (and subject your daughter to it) and call it a difference of opinion.