DH says I've turned him into a chauvinist.

[HowDoIMakeHimUnderstand]

Have namechanged...

DH and I have been together 2 years, married for 1 and we have an 8 month old DD.

When we met, he was a laid-back, tolerant liberal man. Very much a live and let live sort of person...especially when it came to gender roles and women.

However, since we married and had DD, he has really started to alter his perception on relationships, marriage, men/women and just about everything.

We have a traditional set-up. I am a SAHM, he goes out to work. He works full time and has his own business, so he works really really long hours. As a result, I do all the housework, cooking and the majority of child-care.

Recently, he has begun to make comments in regards to a 'woman's place being in the home', he doesn't like the 'feminisation of the work-place' and says that when he was younger he was led to believe that there was no such thing as a happy housewife so he gave up thinking he would ever meet one. Until I came along apparently...

I am a v. laid back sort of person. I don't mind picking up dirty socks and towels off the floor, I couldn't give a fig what he wears, how he does his hair and I don't give a crap about clothes/jewelry/shopping etc. I hate confrontation, so if something trivial is bothering me, I just let it slide. Because of our personalities, DH is very much the dominant one in our relationship.

This is just who I am naturally, it is not planned nor is it a conscious choice.

However, it seems that my laid-back, do all the housework and generally let him get on with his business/go out to pub/fix up his cars, attitude is bringing about a really unpleasant side in him.

He now spouts forth that all women should stay home full time to raise their children and that no man really wants to do housework and change nappies...and any man that does so is just pandering to 'his woman' because he has been mis-led by the feminist movement and the media into thinking that he has to act 'like a pussy' in order to keep a woman...

I've tried pointing out how wrong this attitude is...I've argued with him. All to no avail. He just smiles at me and says 'Well, I'm just glad you're not a career-woman type. I go out to work, you stay home...this is how it should be'. He even said our marital set-up has made him a chauvinist.

What should I do? We are fundamentally very happy with our marriage, he treats me really well, is always there for me if I need him and is a completely devoted father. But I'm v. worried about the impact this new 'thinking' could have on our DD as she gets older...

Have I made a rod for my own back here? Should I stop behaving like this? What can I do?

Advice really needed here...thanks if you got this far!

dittany

I think my religious background has had much to do with it. I'm Catholic, but my family/church are very traditional and heavily influenced by books like this:

www.amazon.com/Created-Be-His-Help-Meet/dp/1892112604

DH is not Catholic, but is familiar with alot of this kind of culture/literature and is very much in agreement with it.

Though I really want to stress he is never aggressive or violent with me...ever.

You have been a submissive person because it suits you. But there will come along situations where you won't be willing to do so. IMO your husband is now so used to be the one "leading" that the moment you show him you have your own opinions hell will break loose.

He is nice because you are submitting, stop and you will see how difficult life is for the wives of chauvinists.

That book is terrifying.

My mum is a catholic and would use that book to start a bonfire.

Don't be too angry with yourself. My husband went throught this stage. He thought he had discovered the answers to the problems of the world -- mothers should stay at home with their children running through fields of flowers, making daisy chains and singing (like in the Sound of Music).

Then we had our second child, and it all went tits up. No sleep for a few years on end will change any man's silly misconceptions about what life is really about -- and what roles women "should" play.

I wouldn't be too hard on him, his idealistic dream world can't last forever, can it?

Hmm...

"Michael is an inductee into the International Knife Throwers Hall of Fame and holds several world titles, including Gold Cup winner of 2008-9, long distance thrower of the year with a record all time high of hitting a four inch target at 63 feet, and he is the undisputed best tomahawk thrower of 2009, holding the world title"

Is this why his wife finds submission is the best policy?

Just for the record, I don't approve of books like that...but my religious/family background is.

Well, the general consensus seems to be that I should alter my behaviour, so I guess I will try to do this and hope for the best.

kathsunn

I think it is alot of idealism on his part...but the misogynistic language is obviously not acceptable.

I hope he will just come to see that all the problems in the world won't be sorted by 'traditional' marriage making a come back

Hmm i think i know whats going on here, some men do this although to varying degrees most don't go to the level as saying "all women should be this or that" but it's common enough for them to group women together like saying "all women are B"

However they are quick to exempt female members of their own family it's really silly.

I wouldn't go as far to say his abusing you since he is clearly not insulting you and makes sure you know that you are not part of those he seems to have an issue with BUT in order to get him to stop these comments you need if only once make it nice and clear to him that you do not want him insulting an entire gender based solely on what they were born as.

You have a submissive personality it's not necessarily a bad thing as long as you are able to stand up for what you believe in when it counts otherwise people will walk all over you. Please do not blame yourself for the actions of other NO person has control over the thoughts/actions of another.

You say you don't mind having sex with him even when your not in the mood does he know you are not in the mood or do you just decide to not say anything so he would not know?

Also it's best to take action when a situation arises as quickly as possible to prevent a problem from potentially escalating as the situation would then be easier to resolve than if left unchecked for a long period of time.

AGYG - I actually snorted at my desk when I read that.

dittany

Do I feel like I am being abused? Well, as I said, he is a perfect husband and father, is as nice as pie with me always and with DD.

So I don't see how I can say I am abused.

But given that I have had so much exposure to that ultra-right wing Christian environment, part of me thinks I really don't know what is normal and what is not.

Do you ever have an on going experience that you normalise at the time only to look back and think crikey, that was not healthy?

I have read that book, I was recommended it by a friend. If I say nothing in it shocked me particuarly, then that will probably help to explain the kind of culture I am used to.

The proponants of Christian female submission are always very keen to point out that violence, infidelity and abuse are not to be tolerated within a marriage and that a woman is not a lesser being, only that her role is different and distinct from a man's.

Please understand though that I do fully understand the wrongness of the things he says...I in no way condone that kind of opinion or language.

OP, I found that book blurb chilling. It made me want to vomit. It's really honest of you and illuminating that you tell us this was your background and is a diet you've been fed from childhood.

All of which your H knew.

Has it ever occurred to you that it was precisely because you have been brought up with these beliefs that made you so attractive to a misogynist?

I didn't tell DH about my very religious upbringing, or the sorts of ideas that I was exposed to until our relationship was well established. Not because I was worried about him taking a liking to it, but because I was worried he would think I was a religious nutcase (I'm really not, promise!) and run a mile.

Turns out he's quite taken with the whole thing...he thinks the traditional Christian way of life is a good sort of antidote to alot of the problems in society today.

It seems though that there is a strange sort of contradiction in him though. For example, he doesn't like mumsnet...he thinks it brings out the worst in women and we all just sit on here bitching and bullying. But he says he's happy if I want to MN because he knows I'm 'not like that'.

I don't get it...

OP...would your husband still be "as nice as pie" if you actually stood up to him ?

challenged his ridiculous misogyny ?

you sound frightened to rock the boat...that is a scary and precarious position to be in especially as a SAHM

think about that

"turned him into a chauvinist"

I would turn the cunt into pate if he spoke to me like that

And Debi Pearl and her husband are sick, twisted, dangerous people who should not be allowed within 50 yards of women or children

AF

I am frightened to rock the boat...I don't want to ruin what is a fundamentally a happy relationship.

I have challenged him on his language and his views...but he doesn't seem to take me seriously. He just smiles and says something to the effect of 'well, you're not like most women/other women. You don't hear what I hear/see what I see'.

He does seem to know a whole raft of men who have been through messy divorces and lost their homes, access to their children etc. He tells me that most men would dearly love to go back to the traditional set up but they've been browbeaten into accepting a more 50/50 approach to housework, finances and child-care.

So...am I right in thinking that no one else reading this would behave as I have done?

Quote of The Week, Greensleeves

"I am frightened to rock the boat...I don't want to ruin what is a fundamentally a happy relationship"

I don't see how it can be such a happy relationship if you are afraid of expressing how you really feel. He is allowed an opinion but you are not?

good god, of COURSE many men would love to go back to a more 'traditional' set up where they do feck all of the crap drudgery of family life!!! thats the whole point. women are not and should not be the ones who are responsbile for basically anything a man doesnt want to do.

I do express my opinion TheCrackFox and not meekly. But it's as though he doesn't believe I really feel that way and when I push him on the issue, he tells me that he's entitled to his thoughts and that we should just agree to disagree.

He is keen to point out that he is not alone and alot of men think as he does.

Is that true?! I really have no idea...

"I have challenged him on his language and his views...but he doesn't seem to take me seriously. He just smiles and says something to the effect of 'well, you're not like most women/other women. You don't hear what I hear/see what I see'."

Sounds all a bit "There, there little one, don't you worry your pretty little head about it" to me.

Er, not sure what you mean by your last question?

I don't think anyone is saying that you (the generic "you") can't be happy in as a SAHM num, or in a "traditional" role. I think people are questioning his bizarre attitude to women - and also to you in a way. You're like a woman, but not one.

Whore and the Madonna anyone?

frikonastick I thought lots of men enjoyed the domestic life, child-care etc. Am I wrong?

Clearly I'm a f*ckwit when it comes to men...I haven't got a clue...feeling like a right idiot as I'm reading back over this thread.