DH says I've turned him into a chauvinist.

[HowDoIMakeHimUnderstand]

Have namechanged...

DH and I have been together 2 years, married for 1 and we have an 8 month old DD.

When we met, he was a laid-back, tolerant liberal man. Very much a live and let live sort of person...especially when it came to gender roles and women.

However, since we married and had DD, he has really started to alter his perception on relationships, marriage, men/women and just about everything.

We have a traditional set-up. I am a SAHM, he goes out to work. He works full time and has his own business, so he works really really long hours. As a result, I do all the housework, cooking and the majority of child-care.

Recently, he has begun to make comments in regards to a 'woman's place being in the home', he doesn't like the 'feminisation of the work-place' and says that when he was younger he was led to believe that there was no such thing as a happy housewife so he gave up thinking he would ever meet one. Until I came along apparently...

I am a v. laid back sort of person. I don't mind picking up dirty socks and towels off the floor, I couldn't give a fig what he wears, how he does his hair and I don't give a crap about clothes/jewelry/shopping etc. I hate confrontation, so if something trivial is bothering me, I just let it slide. Because of our personalities, DH is very much the dominant one in our relationship.

This is just who I am naturally, it is not planned nor is it a conscious choice.

However, it seems that my laid-back, do all the housework and generally let him get on with his business/go out to pub/fix up his cars, attitude is bringing about a really unpleasant side in him.

He now spouts forth that all women should stay home full time to raise their children and that no man really wants to do housework and change nappies...and any man that does so is just pandering to 'his woman' because he has been mis-led by the feminist movement and the media into thinking that he has to act 'like a pussy' in order to keep a woman...

I've tried pointing out how wrong this attitude is...I've argued with him. All to no avail. He just smiles at me and says 'Well, I'm just glad you're not a career-woman type. I go out to work, you stay home...this is how it should be'. He even said our marital set-up has made him a chauvinist.

What should I do? We are fundamentally very happy with our marriage, he treats me really well, is always there for me if I need him and is a completely devoted father. But I'm v. worried about the impact this new 'thinking' could have on our DD as she gets older...

Have I made a rod for my own back here? Should I stop behaving like this? What can I do?

Advice really needed here...thanks if you got this far!

Oh, I guess I just assumed that from the mentions from people who have said that they couldn't love a man who said those things or that they would divorce him for others.

The OP is, as they say in poker, "pot committed".

what a lot of extrapolated over reaction.

OP it's not unanimous. I do not think your husband sounds like a woman hater. Nor is he "doing a number " on you.

Don't let these extreme views alter your happiness in your situation.

Seriously, are some of you people for real?

The idea that she should not leave him alone with his own daughter is deeply offensive.

I have not heard such over inflated twisted feminist "logic" since I did a sociology degree in the late 70s.

Continue to tackle him on his more outlandish comments and be happy you are both happy with the arrangement.

estuardo when ever you post, it's as though we have absent-mindedly acquired a visa to another planet, or perhaps another thread. I can't conclude whether you do this just to be provocative, whether you really do have such a different take on life or whether you are in fact a bitter man purporting to be a female MNetter....

The spin on the DV incident finally did it for me. So your H thinks that throwing a lamp in the direction of one's partner is acceptable, does he? And he thinks that if a woman remarries, the H should stop paying for his children?

Do you know what? I'm so irritated with all your contradictions OP, your aggression to people like AF and the defence of this ghastly man, that as far as I'm concerned you are deserving of guilt by association.
I'd feel the same way towards a woman who was living with a racist. The fact that you love this man says a lot about you.

applause @ WWIFN

I would never underestimate the effects of brainwashing. But I will accept that some people are beyond reason. OP, I hope some of this sinks in, however slowly. Something must have prompted your post.

HDIMHU, some of the posters here have made some very good points, and offered some good constructive advice.

i think some posters are being a little harsh. to YOU. your DHs behaviour does deserve to be vilified. but you dont.

its hard to face up to things that make you feel uncomfortable. and vacillating between 'this really upsets me' and 'actually no it really doesnt' is pretty normal. especially when you feel you have alot to lose.

i think what you should take from this thread is that your instincts about your husbands misogyny are being validated here. you ARE right to worry about it, and it does need to be addressed.

the difficulty is that in order for you to help your husband understand, you are going to have to have some uncomfortable conversations and your worry seems to be that you may not like his response and what that will mean to you for your relationship.

this IS a big deal. and it is hard to tackle. i think you deserve kudos for being willing to talk about this and i hope you do find a way forward. good luck

Hi HDIMHU, I hope you got some sleep.

I just wanted to add that when you have a baby it really does bring all sorts of things to light about men and women. I know for the first year it was a big period of adjustment for us when roles within the relationship suddenly changed overnight. You are both still fairly new at all this, and may find that your roles and attitudes change and develop as time goes on and you have more children etc.

I just reread all your posts and I honestly don't think your DH sounds that bad, but I realise I am in a minority of one. I think you should give it some time and just keep chipping away at the comments like you are doing.
I thought your post where he said he would do more childcare if you wanted to train to be a solicitor was great, he said he would be happy to support you. My interpretation of his response was that would let you do it because basically he knows you would still put the family first and not be like some women he perceives to be career mad. Maybe I am interpreting it differently to you, it obviously bothered you.

Have a good day, maybe you should have a day off from reading this thread?!!

Just to clarify - when I said that I couldn't love a man who said things like this, I wasn't meaning that the OP should leave her husband.

I just meant that it's hard for me to get a perspective on this situation because it simply wouldn't arise - I would never have married a man with views like this in the first place.

If my DH ever did make comments like this - I can't conceive how he would, but in jest maybe - then it would be very clear to both of us that this was a deal-breaker that would fundamentally alter and perhaps end our relationship, like being unfaithful.

I accept that the OP's relationship has a different dynamic and that she perhaps doesn't feel as strongly about the comments - but she came on asking for advice on how to handle the comments - all I can give is how I would handle them in the same situation; in my case, that would be to make it clear that it was a choice between making the comments and retaining my love and respect.

kitpuss...do you not see anything wrong with this statement...

"he would let you do it, because he knows you would put the family first and not be like some women he perceives to be career mad..."

your sweeping statements are as bad as his are

I have a career, my DH has a career

we share house/kids

if I was a SAHM, his attitude towards me would be the same (the SAHM part is a red herring, tbh...it is this bloke's attitude to all women that is a problem here)

neither of us lets the other do anything, none of it is conditional on not "rocking the boat" or being afraid to say what we really feel

you have badly missed the point

"My interpretation of his response was that would let you do it because basically he knows you would still put the family first and not be like some women he perceives to be career mad."

But Kit can't you see that your interpretation of it is DREADFUL!

Why should the OP's husband get to "let" her do anything? She's not his servant! She's her own person. He can support her in her own decisions, but he doesn't get to veto them.

And worse, you're saying that he will "let" her do it, but only on his terms, ie only if she orders her priorities to suit him.

I'm not saying that the OP should ride roughshod over what her DH thinks and do what she wants regardless - but the language of "let" is so offensive and 18th century that it makes me gape.

OP, I really hope that this thread hasn't upset you - but I think the problem is that you are trying to treat these comments as separate from the rest of your marriage, and other posters (including me) are trying to point out that they may be part of the larger picture of your marriage, and that some of the other dynamics you talk about may be feeding out of that mindset.

You can't isolate part of someone's character like that. These comments are coming from somewhere. He's choosing to say them to you. Like it or not, he's bringing these views into your marriage. It doesn't matter how much washing up he does after that.

cross-posted with AF.

AF, shall I just nod my head wisely whenever you speak from now, rather than waste typing time ?

There is nothing wrong or freaky with you being a SAHM or doing the main part of the housework- loads of us do or have done.

But again, this is no excuse for your husband to turn into some misogynistic Colonel Blimp- most of our husbands have managed not to do so under similar conditions! Your husband must take responsibility for any choices he makes and any attitudes he develops- particularly if they are attitudes which are no longer shared by all men. I know many happily married men, but not one like that. I was a SAHM for many years, and it didn't turn dh into a wimp who can't find the washing machine or cope with female competition in the workplace. If it had, then that would have been his responsibility, not mine.

Again, if you really believe that your dd should have a choice when she grows up, then it is your duty to challenge this language whenever you hear it. Because if she grows up hearing it, then she won't effectively have a choice. This is more important than your desire to keep everybody happy: it will affect the whole of her future. You are not responsible for the attitudes your husband develops- he is- but you are^ responsible for your dd's attitudes!

You don't have to divorce him or protect your dd from him: but you do have to put pressure on him. And now, before she is old enough to understand. If you can manage to do it with a light touch, that's fine- as long as it gets done!

One thing I would disagree on with cory, though - I wouldn't challenge it just whenever it came up. I don't think reacting when he says things - pushing and pushing - is going to provide you with the resolution to this that you honestly need. It will only wear you down, and you'll still be bottling it up.

I think you need to talk to him about it to him in a general way, at a time other than when he brings it up. It sounds as if you did do this in part with the law conversion conversation, but maybe you need to do it in a more general and firmer way. Something that gets over to him the huge difficulty that this apparent change in him represents for you. I worry that if you don't, he - at some point of his choosing - will start to tell you how much you've changed, in a way that makes you feel powerless.

It's up to you to decide what you can't compromise on if you are to continue to like and respect him long-term - and to let him know about it now. He has to understand and believe that you really do feel that way and to work out for himself what that means.

TYV...I could say the same thing about you

I agree that the OP needs to challenge her H's views, whenever such offensive drivel is uttered, but stopping him expressing them doesn't solve the problem that he has those views, does it? The fact that he does, must permeate so many areas of their lives. As someone said downthread, if this man was really happy with his stepford life, he wouldn't be so angry about other people's choices.

I think it would therefore be a very uncomfortable situation if the OP has women friends who work or (unlikely as it seems) are proud feminists. I imagine that this man would positively seethe in their company. Now he might learn that he ought to keep a lid on his views in public - and he's probably a bit of a wimp at confrontation with an intelligent feminist woman anyway, but I imagine he'd let rip once the woman concerned had left his company. And try to persuade the OP that it would be better if she didn't have friends like this....

I acknowledge that the OP has challenged him thus far on his awful views, but his response seems to have been so patronising - that her unworldliness means that she really doesn't know what he knows, would make me bloody furious if I were the OP.

In a healthy relationship, there are going to be occasional disagreements about ethical issues. The normal way of resolving those conflicts of opinion is by rational discussion backed up by facts. One might persuade the other and there is usually some "brokering" so that common ground is reached. However if one of the parties is metaphorically patting the other on the head and saying "you have no idea how life is" it seems that this is when any discourse stops in the OP's household.

OP, it doesn't sound as though you spent any time arguing the case for the woman who objected to a lamp being thrown, or for the woman who negotiated a reasonable divorce settlement. If you're not afraid of this man, why is that?

You are too dam good to him and he doesnt deserve it. He is prob the kind who . . .The more you give , the more he will take.
Stand firm and times and dont be a doormat. I did once and i hated myself for it. He is being selfish, lazy and domineering; so dont give in to his every need all the time. Have self respect and realise you are not a waitress, nanny and maid. You are his wife and he should love and care for you and make you feel special at times and wait on you sometimes.

Many apologies for using the word "let". I should have said happy with.

Don't get so hung up on one word.

I have said many times in real life that I "let" my husband start his own business, is that horrific too? I even let him play sport sometimes, and he occasionally lets me out of the house too

I don't know about the "make you feel special" thing. I think that a lot of controlling people can do a lot of very nice things for the people they control. It's all part of the control. Also, yes, it's natural to want to do nice things for people, but relationships are more than the total of nice things you do for each other.

don't apologise, kp, you are entitled to your opinion

Yes vesela, actually I think this is part of the problem. The H keeps telling the OP she is special and quite unlike the rest of her sex....

I hope she comes back to this thread and reads through it again. Fantastic, intelligent, balanced and compassionate advice.

kitpuss - it does sound odd to me to talk about letting your husband start their own business or play sport. It's still language of control, whoever uses it.

Kit - you don't need to apologise for saying "let" - but it's still a loaded word to be the first one that comes to mind.

It's like saying "oh sorry, did I say the word servant? I meant wife. Slip of the tongue. Don't get so hung up on a word".

It would never even occur to me to use that word in the context of my life choices. My husband doesn't "let" me do anything. Nor do I him. I think it would insulting for both of us to imply there was some kind of permission thing going on.

theyoungvisiter, that's what I was trying to say - about the permission thing going on.

Thanks AF, I have not really posted anything controversial before so am finding the response a bit intense, people just seem to overreact to the slightest little thing on here. Just glad I'm not the OP!!