MN regular with urgent questions on what's "normal" in your relationship, because dh and I wildly disagree

[getsonmynerves]

He is 43 but has the sexuality of a 14 year old. He is fond of making innuendos and spends all day trying to feel me up in some way/ trying to french-kiss me/ trying to dry-hump me, as soon as we are alone. It gets on my nerves soooooooooooo much and I feel like I'm constantly fending him off. In his defence though I must admit that my sex drive has been non-existent for the last five years and we hardly ever do it (less than once a month). I say his behaviour is not normal and I do regularly get cross and then he stops for a while but as soon as we start getting on better he reverts back to his old ways. He says my behaviour is not normal and that most women would love the attention and would for example jump at the chance of a five minute fondle on the bed while the kids are busy elsewhere. So who is right?

Mal: some people don't like sex. Being different is neither a crime, nor is it something that needs an army of counsellors to drug or bully the different person into compliance.
OP, you might find the AVEN link interesting as well, there may be some useful advice on there of the sort you won't get in the heteronormative world.

I tend to agree that if sex is withdrawn from the menu by one partner, the other has the right to seek it elsewhere, however, from what the OP says, her DH does not want this. He wants to have sex with the woman he loves, not someone with whom he has no emotional attachment. He is entitled to feel that. Whilst monogamy may not be right for everyone, for many of us, it is the way we choose to live our lives and it appears that the husband is one of those people.

I find it odd that the OP feels it is weird that she should try to solve what is clearly becoming a major problem in her marriage. I thought that part of loving someone was about wanting to do nice things for them, whether that be making a cup of tea, taking them out for a meal and yes, having sex even if you are not entirely in the mood.

The fact that she is so unwilling to do anything to meet him halfway, yet expects him to accept that she doesn't want sex, is, to my mind, very unreasonable and doesn't bode well for a happy relationship in the future.

I suppose you have to ask yourself what is worse, the effort you would have to make to try and get this sorted, or how you would feel if he was to come home one day and announce that he was leaving you because he had found someone who made him feel loved in a way that you are clearly unwilling to even attempt?

I think there are lots of reasons not to like sex. Yes, orgasms are nice, but you can induce one yourself with little fuss, no emotional entanglement, much less mess, no worrying about contraception or STDs. Then there are people who have never orgasmed anyway. I know there are other things to like about sex, but for me the main thing I like about it is the closeness etc - and you can get that without having sex anyway. I don't think sex is necessary for a relationship. If someone I went out with didn't have a sex drive, or e.g. had a disability which prevented them from having sex, that wouldn't be a problem for me. But with the right partner, I enjoy sex and even crave it. However if I'm not feeling secure in the relationship, or I am single, I definitely go through phases of low to nonexistant sex drive. I think TBH it's just that I very very strongly have sex and love tied up together. If I'm not in love with someone, I don't want sex. I honestly do not see the attraction of sex for sex's sake, or a one night stand. I can't enjoy it if I'm not in the mood in the first place, because I can't orgasm unless I have that emotional connection. And if I am not enjoying it, then it feels wrong, it is an invasion, and I physically reject it - sorry for TMI, but I dry up and clam up and it's physically very difficult for me to have sex.

I hate this suggestion that women who have low sex drive should "just try" for their partner's sake - don't jump on me yet - I realise that it's probably meant as "Just give him a chance and try and get in the mood instead of writing it off straight away, and you might come to enjoy it" rather than "Just do it and pretend you're enjoying it for his sake" but I have followed both of these, and my early sexual relationships were really, really shit. I didn't know what it was supposed to be like when I was "enjoying" it so I ended up just trying to get used to a weird and often painful sensation before actually liking it. I still don't know whether my first sexual partner was just really crap in bed, or whether there was something wrong with me not to be aroused by the touching etc. But I was always doing it because that's what people do, or because he wanted to. My first experiences of sex were very much "Oh, is that it?" but it wasn't just for the first few, it was about a year. I remember the boyfriend I had after him, I don't think I ever had sex with him sober, because I'd got so used to the fact that alcohol made it easier, but I remember him saying to me "You don't seem to be enjoying this very much" and I was astounded that he'd even noticed let alone cared. How awful is that? How fucking sad that I had so little respect for myself at the age of 18. And what makes it worse is that the next relationship I got into, I promised myself I would never do anything sexually that I didn't 100% want to do, and yet I ended up at the end in this completely one sided relationship where I'd say "OK, I'll make you come, but don't worry about me, I'm really not bothered." or I'd force myself to do it and just hope it would be over quickly How can I trust myself not to let it get like that again?

I am starting to think that I have just had pretty crap experiences though and maybe should bow out of the discussion since I'm not really coming from a normal place and probably shouldn't expect to have a normal sex drive after all that.

The OP still hasn't actually said whether she likes sex or not. If she previously had and enjoyed a normal sexual relationship then it's not unreasonable to suggest she could do so again, with a little more effort and a lot less selfishness.

I agree with sayhow and would go so far as to say he deserves to find someone he can have a proper loving relationship with, and that doesn't seem like his wife at the moment.

And before anyone jumps in and says "what about if one partner physically can't have sex any more" that's a completely different scenario, very few couples can't have any form of sex at all. Even severely disabled people can have a sex life.

Loving someone usually means wanting to do things to please them and gaining pleasure from doing it . Not wanting sexual pleasure for yourself is one thing, not wanting to give it to your partner is selfish beyond belief.

Sorry I may have missed this, but did you and you partner ever feel sexually compatible?

I'm getting a bit fed up with this now, so I'm just a selfish horrible person who should do what? Leave my dh for his own sake to set him free for a loving relationship? I have three children, one of them with SN, I am knackered and frankly sorting this out is just not on the top of my agenda at the moment, thing is over the last five years if it had been up to me I would not have had sex at all but I did have it albeit infrequently because I did and do want to make him happy, so I have tried you know, more than he has tried to stop the groping and pawing and more than he has tried to seduce me romantically instead of guilt-tripping me into doing it.

Yes I would. and yes I can understand that, which is why I have made an effort to have sex with him, albeit not as often as he would have liked.

"I'm just a selfish horrible person who should do what? Leave my dh for his own sake to set him free for a loving relationship?"

I think the main suggestion has been that you should have counselling or sex therapy and/or have your hormone levels checked.

But you are too busy...

You seem to be looking for a no-effort solution, aka a magical solution.

You say
"over the last five years if it had been up to me I would not have had sex at all"
and then you are all pissed off that he isn't trying to seduce you romantically.

It makes no sense - you want no sex and yet you demand that he spend time and effort, not to mention putting his feelings on the line, on a romantic seduction to convince you to have sex he knows you don't want?

Kerry, no, I'm not - although there is someone I've seen (and slept with) a couple of times. He's an old friend and we talk a lot online, but he's living 200 miles away at uni, so not much chance of a relationship at the moment, but I think we are both hoping there will be when he moves back home, which could be in a few weeks, or could be longer.

He was the one I mentioned a few pages back who was respectful and completely different and who made me realise I do have a sex drive after all But I haven't spoken to him in a while (he has been on holiday) and I don't feel like I want sex now at all, though I did for a week or two after he went back to uni. I probably wouldn't say no if he turned up on my doorstep right now but that would be more because I find him attractive and I know he'd probably be able to seduce me if he wanted to. But just off the top of my head, I don't feel like I want sex and I haven't for a good 2-3 weeks now. I guess it's quite handy since I wouldn't be getting any anyway

Sorry for thread hijack!

I dont like where some of this is going. Hes as much entitled to want sex as shes entitled to not want sex . That doesnt make his needs superior to hers , why should op seek medication or counselling ? Why hasnt anyone suggested he seek counselling in relation to his sexual haresment of his wife ? Why has no one suggested he seeks counselling in order to accept she doesnt want sex ? Why is it not ok for her not to want sex , are her feelings about her own body not valid and secondry to her husbands ?

I thought the suggestion was for them both to seek counselling, together, in order that they might reach a compromise.

Dignified: both partners' needs do matter, which is why most people are suggesting counselling and compromise for both of them. I don't think she should be drugged or 'counselled' into submitting to sex, but nor should he be 'counselled' (or indeed drugged) into celibacy against his wishes.

getson - is there any form of respite care available to you? I don't think you've said much about the SN child's needs, sorry if you have - is it the type that needs round the clock care?

If you were less tired then perhaps you might start to feel differently about everything - but your DH should still listen to you and stop with the pawing, which is just so unattractive.

Hope you can find a solution and that your DH does realise what a turn-off his behaviour is (it really is), especially when you are tired.

Oh, so now we get a back story, it's only taken 3 pages.

Your intimate life with your husband ( not just sex) should be the backbone of your whole life, it should give you comfort and strength to cope, whereas you are turning it into some kind of battle, you still haven't said whether you enjoy sex, although because you continue to say it's about keeping him happy, I assume not. If you did, I'm sure you could find half an hour a week in which to reconnect with him.

It's a real shame that you are missing out on something so life enhancing. The sort of intimacy I mean keeps you sane during the awful times because there is that unbreakable bond between you that nothing else can create in quite the same way.

I am not turning it into a battle at all, and I have kept quiet about the back story so far because I don't want to be identified.

I don't know quite why you're so hostile towards me. Before anybody comes back and says "there's all this good advice and you're ignoring it", if you read my OP again you can see that I wasn't actually asking for advice, I just wanted to find out who was right in their perception of what is normal relationship behaviour. I am, however, grateful to everybody who has taken the time and trouble to reply and I will think about the advice that has been given. Dignified's question as to why I am the one in this who has to be fixed is a pertinent one to me though.

dry humping is annoying
sex only once a month is too infrequent
I suggest compromise

MN regular with urgent questions on what's "normal" in your relationship, because dh and I wildly disagree

Well, your thread title actually asked what is normal in other's relationships, not whether you or your DH is right. So, for me, in my relationship, I would be in agreement with those who say your DH is clumsy in his approach, but essentially, I agree with what he is saying to you. However, in your relationship, you are both right because you are both entitled to a sex life that is enjoyable for each of you. The problem is that for whatever reason, you have very mismatched sex drives and therefore, in order to sort this out, you will each have to make compromises. He will have to accept that you will not have sex as often as he would like, and yes, you will have to accept that you should be having sex with him more than you would choose. Compromise is about you meeting each other half way, not about one just imposing their wishes on the other.

I don't think anyone has said you are nasty, but maybe there has been some inference that you are being selfish by not even appearing to want to sort out this problem. I actually feel sorry for you both. It must be very difficult to do something you would rather not, on a regular basis, however, it must also be very difficult for him to feel that the woman he loves is only ever 'allowing' him sex grudgingly.

I hope you are able to resolve this in a way that is satidfactory to you both, because otherwise, I am afraid I think you are storing up a lot of problems for the future.

I don't like sex. I like the idea of it but hate the reality. I've only ever had one partner so no idea if it is them or me that's the problem.

The thing is I don't think either situation could be described as "normal". They are both quite extreme - better to meet in the middle if you can.

The thing is that I kind of thought I was meeting him in the middle to some extent, because we do have sex, just not very often. And if he wasn't constantly groping me then maybe it would be more often.

I realise how difficult this must be, but I do think you need to sit down with your husband and discuss this problem. In an ideal world, how often would he like to have sex? Same question to you? ( You don't have to tell us BTW, but you should discuss it with him). Then, you need to find somewhere in the middle that even if not ideal to either one of you, is nearer to the middle ground. Unless of course he really only does want sex twice a month! In which case, as you were!. Seriously, I think there is more work here for you both. If you can agree a number of times in a week/month that you would have sex, he then needs to understand that he must stop the harrassment. Perhaps you could agree to have the occasional date night, for him to woo you? Maybe you could even bring yourself to initiate? He is probably acting like a lovesick teenager because that is how he feels at the moment. I bet if he didn't feel so rejected, so frequently, and that when you do agree to have sex, that it is a real chore for you, he would be able to stop the teenage antics. Perhaps you could give each other a lovely massage? Maybe you just haven't yet found your own particular 'switch' that gets you in the mood. My DH knows exactly what to do to get me in the mood! And it starts as soon as he gets through the door from work, but it is nice, something I enjoy,(he kisses me very tenderly in a particular place and it never fails!) maybe you and your DH need to do some exploring together to find out what gets you going! But please, don't treat it as a chore to be endured. When I first joined MN someone far wiser than me said that a woman needs to feel loved to have sex and a man needs to have sex to feel loved. In many, many cases, I believe that to be true. If you love your husband, don't drive him away by letting him believe that you don't love him. And if you do love him, and he loves you, you need to work together to sort this out.

That's true getson - I forgot about you saying you have sex once or twice a month. It might not be "much" by some people's standards but it is a start. How does he react to this? Does it make him more horny or less? One thing which worked for a while with XP was to agree certain days of the week on which he could reasonably assume I'd be responsive to his advances, and I really would try hard - think sexy thoughts, maybe even look at some pictures or read some erotic literature, etc. Then certain days of the week when sex was completely off the menu and any cuddles, kisses, touching etc was allowed (and encouraged!) but had to be non sexual. Not even a french kiss allowed! It sounds a bit clinical to timetable it in, but if you both know what to expect then it takes the pressure off - he's not constantly thinking "when can I have sex again???" and you're not constantly thinking "He doesn't want sex again, does he? When will I get a break?" You can also put some "in between" days in the mix so, say, you are allowed to do certain things but not cross a particular boundary.

(Only reason it didn't work with XP was he kept pushing the boundaries so hopefully you might find it more helpful )