MN regular with urgent questions on what's "normal" in your relationship, because dh and I wildly disagree

[getsonmynerves]

He is 43 but has the sexuality of a 14 year old. He is fond of making innuendos and spends all day trying to feel me up in some way/ trying to french-kiss me/ trying to dry-hump me, as soon as we are alone. It gets on my nerves soooooooooooo much and I feel like I'm constantly fending him off. In his defence though I must admit that my sex drive has been non-existent for the last five years and we hardly ever do it (less than once a month). I say his behaviour is not normal and I do regularly get cross and then he stops for a while but as soon as we start getting on better he reverts back to his old ways. He says my behaviour is not normal and that most women would love the attention and would for example jump at the chance of a five minute fondle on the bed while the kids are busy elsewhere. So who is right?

OK so maybe the problem is that he is very frustrated but he still needs to bear in mind that you are a person.
SOmething that often works when a couple have a libido mismatch (ie one wants sex a lot more often than the other does) is agreeing to split the week ie on three days a week only partner A is allowed to initiate or ask for sex, on three days a week only partner B is allowed to initiate sex, and on the remaining day either of you can ask. THis sometimes helps as it takes the pressure off both of you, especially for the reluctant one to know that for 3 days a week the other person will not be asking for sex.
WHen one partner wants a lot more sex than the other one, you have to come to some sort of compromise but it's only going to work out if both partners accept that the problem is with the relationship, it's not a case of one person being a disgusting sex crazed beast and the other a neurotic lazy uptight prude. If your relationship is otherwise good then it can be worked through.

It's not surprising that he really wants sex in a morning, men's testosterone is highest when they wake and the extreme sexual frustration he's feeling ( quite understandably imho) is adding fuel to his libido. He's 43, not 83.

Have you considered the likely fact that he's not so interested at night because he's sorted himself out in the meantime?

I feel sorry for him, it must be quite soul destroying to be constantly rejected, he's handling it the only way he knows how, by pestering, but if he backed off and didn't bother you ( after 28 years I still love my DH's wandering hands while washing up etc.) would it actually make you want sex more? I doubt it.

Sorry OP, it sounds like you're the one with issues around sex.

I honestly cant beleive some of the replys on this thread , and kerry your replys are plain stupid, hes not showing her attention, hes constantly groping her there quite a differance.

Op youve stated quite clearly that you do not like this behaviour, dont not find it attractive and to stop , yet he continues.
Considering his horrible aproach doesnt work, and its obviously the reason you dont want to have sex with him , i wonder if its really about sex.

How many times would a person use an aproach that has a zero success rate ? How many times would a person have to be told that their behaviour is upsetting you and causing you to not want to have sex, yet they make the CHOICE to do it again.

Some men do this to degrade and bully , not because there frustrated and cant help it. If he actually wanted a healthy happy sex life presumably he would behave accordingly to acheive that. Id say the problem is with him.
No means no, and when a partner degrades you and dehumanises you like this its not on and a serious problem. He knows you dont like it, so why is he still doing it ? Does he feel he doesnt have to listen to you, or that he has more rights to your body than you do?

And for those who think its normal, or think its ok cos hes frustrated, when you cannot walk around your own home without hands being stuck up your skirt , your boobs being squeezed , disgusting comments coming your way, and having to FEND OFF someone whos meant to respect you, its no fucking joke.

Ive been reduced to tears by this sort of behaviour, it feels shit to be treated like a piece of meat for someones entertainment, its degrading and its designed to feel shit.

Every one of you would be up in arms if a colleage at work was doing this to the op , go to the police youd all cry. But its not a colleague is it, its her husband and hes got rights, she owes him sex and hes probably just frustrated and its her own fault anyway.

Its a bit fucked up when you get more respect of strange men than you do your husband. Other men cant grope you, but your husband can, and youve got a problem if you dont enjoy it.

Fwiw the counseller i saw stated that this sort of behaviour is sexual abuse, unwanted sexual touching is unwanted sexual touching, no matter whos doing it.

You know what kerry, if i only wanted sex once a month, yes i do think thats ok. Whatever i wanted to do is ok because its my body and ill do what i like with it. And if he became frustrated id expect him to be able to deal with that, not grope me constantly.

How the fuck do single men go on? Do they run around groping every woman in sight ?

I think there is information we are missing here, OP.

If you haven't wanted sex for five years, but have it anyway, once a month, it's a problem. I expect your DP knows that you have sex under sufferance and at some point years ago, found that hurtful and rejecting. Now, I suspect he resents you for it.

I think he has got so used to this situation that in fact he might have detached from you emotionally and physically and finds that actually, he wants sex with you less than he once did. So I think he gropes and mauls you at inappropriate times knowing full well that this won't lead to sex, but because it's you saying no (again) he can blame you. Because he has detached from you emotionally, he isn't bothering with romantic and loving seduction techniques, because sex now is just about orgasming, not making love. He still wants sex, but not necessarily with you.

With hindsight, he should have sat down with you years ago and told you how hurt he was at being rejected and tried to reach some understanding with you about why this happened and what compromises you could reach.

You perhaps shouldn't have bargained with yourself that it was normal and understandable not to want sex with someone you're meant to love. I strongly disagree with posters who are bargaining that this is normal and acceptable in long-term relationships, even those with small children. Good sex is like a glue in relationships and if you ignore its benefits, other aspects of the relationship start to unravel.

So, just like he should have talked to you about this long ago, I think you should have talked to him too about your lack of desire.

Instead I think what's happening here is a script you've got locked into; a dance that you are perpetuating.

What will happen if you both ignore it and keep re-enacting this dance? I expect he will develop (or increase) a porn habit, which will further serve to dehumanise sex for him. In fact there might be yet another link there between a porn habit and his inappropriate behaviour. Next, I suspect he will have an affair. He might not go looking for one, but he will not turn down an opportunity to be with a woman who desires him intensely.

Assuming you haven't gone off sex completely yourself and it is just sex with him, then I think you are equally vulnerable to an affair.

A really good, no holds barred, honest conversation could stop the rot here. If he's not good at talking about things, that might prove difficult on your own and so counselling might be the catalyst you and he need to start communicating with eachother properly.

I think your situation could be summed up by resentments on both sides, poor communication and very low emotional intimacy.

If you are in a good, happy and equal relationship, then any sexual touching shouldn't be unwanted - that's the whole point.
The OP says less than once a month, and if that has been going on for five years, it's no wonder the bloke is frustrated!

If she suddenly found her libido, then she would be grateful that he was still interested after such rejection.

How many really unhappy women on here have said recently that being sexually rejected by their partner was destroying them?

Presumably we are taking the OP's word that this a happy marriage and not an abusive one - sex should be about making each other feel loved , she is holding all the card here and is expecting her husband to drop down to her unnaturally low level of sex, she's not even meeting him half way .

That makes so much sense WWIFN, that they are both resentful.
The OP has to take responsibility for much this current situation imho.

I wouldnt give a toss whether he was happy about it or not, im a person , not a fucktoy for his enjoyment.

Presumably you enjoy a good sex life with your Dh kerry. Presumably you acheive that by being mutually respectfull to each other. If your dh told you that he didnt like you groping him or touching him in a particular way , i assume you would be respectfull enough to stop. The ops dh isnt doing that, hes continuing it, despite her objections.

It bothers me a lot when these threads start talking about keeping your man happy / being frustrated ect. Not many of us deliberateley choose to ignore our partners feelings.

I think on the frequency issue there has to be a bit of give/take. Once a month is really not that often. If you managed twice a month you'd double the amount of sex you have in a year

He's probably groping excessively in the hope that either a) you'll get fed up and give in = he gets sex or b) it'll eventually turn you on = he gets sex. What he hasn't considered is c) it turns you off, d) it makes you feel like he's not listening to/respecting you, e) even if you do give in it's going to be a 'lie back and think of England' situation.

You both need to have an honest talk. He should appreciate that you need to feel like your body is your own again (because children are tactile, bordering on parasitic) and if he/children/someone is constantly touching you it gets very wearing, that his approach isn't working, that it takes two to tango. You need to appreciate that he does have sexual needs - he's a bloke - that you'd probably prefer were met by you than an affair, you might need to give him a bit more guidance on how to get you in the mood, you might need to have sexual contact a bit more often (hand jobs are very effective if you're too tired for full sex and don't like oral) but that he needs to touch you on some level.

Sod most men/most women - it's the two of you in this relationship, not Mumsnet or the rest of the world.

I can see this from both sides but essentially I think he is behaving like a spoilt child who can't get his own way.

I have a higher sex drive than DH but would not behave in a similar way because this will obviously just put more pressure on the situation. I may occasionally flaunt myself to DH - what girl doesn't use her charms to get what she wants - but not all day every day! Also, there is much more to sex than intercourse - just kissing and cuddling can be very pleasurable

We have a solid relationship and both respect the other's sexual needs and desires and try very hard to "meet in the middle" without either party feeling dis-datisfied or pressured.

Keeping your partner happy is part and parcel of being married Dignity, I expect my DH to keep me happy and sexually satisfied, he expects the same from me.

Wanting regular sex with the person you love is normal, being constantly denied it is soul destroying, as we've seen from countless posts on here.

Her DH has handled the situation badly, but then the OP has all the power.

WWIFN - I should have just waited and said 'I agree with WWIFN'.

My xp was like this! Constantly all over me like a rash and then treating me like I was the freak for not wanting it all day every day. Its a large part of why he became the ex!
Personally I found it a massive turn off-its hard to get in the mood when you feel under pressure to perform isn't it?

I don't see what she has said as abusive. I see it as pathetic.

Would you consider it abusive if it was anyone other than her dh doing this to her ?

My husband did this alot, but then i realised subtelty was not getting through, and shouting 'Get OFF me' worked.

there is a time and a place for husbandly affection, whilst i am doing the washing up/ changing the baby/ going to the loo is not that time..and uninvited groping is not the sort required.

I expect this constant irritation is why you don't want to shag him.

DH is a bit like this, only he's younger. I have a low sex drive now, since pg with DS (now 2.6). But we are ttc so have more sex than the OP.

However, I find it mildly to extremely irritating when DH does this to me - lots of Jack Russelling, lots of "would this count as sexual harassment" feeling up (yes, he does ask that question). It is pressuring and depending on how low I am feeling, it can be intensely unpleasant.

I don't like that I am not interested in sex particularly - but only on behalf of DH. Personally I couldn't care less, I am only bothered because DH does get frustrated and then gets silly.

It certainly can be an extreme turn-off - certainly never "gets me in the mood". As I've already said, far too pressuring.

So - your DH Is Wrong.

I think this bloke is a bit thick, tbh

what pillock keeps trying the same stupid approaches that get him nowhere ?

he is a stupid Yorkshire Terrier

Give him a pink cushion to hump

I'm with skid and dignified on this...get a fly swatter and swat him round the arse every time he does it...this muppet needs the equivalent of a water pistol for a cat that shits in your garden

"I wouldnt give a toss whether he was happy about it or not, im a person , not a fucktoy for his enjoyment."

But in a loving relationship with someone the OP has described as being a kind, loving partner who pulls his weight, surely the OP should care about whether he is happy?

"Not many of us deliberateley choose to ignore our partners feelings."

IMO, both parties' feelings are being ignored here, by eachother. The OP knows that her DP wants more sex and in the process, to feel desired and loved. He has told her (clumsily) about his feelings on this and she is ignoring it, telling him that their sex life is normal. He is ignoring her feelings about treating her like a dehumanised sex object.

Actually you know, when he first started saying "other women would feel pleased that their partner wanted them so much" what he was actually saying was: "I would feel great if you wanted me as much as I wanted you".

I do think it's important to understand that one partner in a marriage isn;t just entitled to say to the other 'There will be no more sex, tough luck' and not even discuss compromising. I agree with all the posters who say that there are resentments on both sides here and a degree of blame attaching to both partners for the current stalemate.
Lots of good advice OP, hope some of it will work out for you.

Mal , I agree with you re keeping your partner happy, i really do. I dont want anyone to be under the impression that i had a low sex drive or didnt want sex. I stated that i had similar problems to the op, other posters have said the same . The other posters might want to add their point of veiw here, but mine is this -

I absoluteley wanted a normal happy sex life with my dh , what could be better than snuggling up with the man you love ? I would initiate sex regularly and genuineley enjoyed being with him in that way.

Then for some reason, the comments started " show me your tits " while im trying to eat, grabbing me, groping me, having to fend him off. It started so slowly i couldnt tell you when it began , but eventually, i arrived at a place similar to what the op describes.

Its not attractive, its upsetting and degrading , its very hard to be aroused by someone treating you with a lack of respect , he was told this many many times , yet still continued.I couldnt have a shower without him coming upstairs and making vile comments , couldnt get undressed or even look nice. I absoluteley had the right to enjoy a decent sex life, and his behaviour put a stop to that.

I would suggest nights out, romantic gestures , nothing worked , i continued to be treated like his own personal toy, and he knew the effect it was having but continued anyway. We had many many conversations about this, the upshot was that i was frigid, i should enjoy his disgusting comments and being groped constantly.

Interestingly we had a conversation about this a while ago ( now divorced ) and he commented that he knew it was wrong but was probably trying to dominate me.