MN regular with urgent questions on what's "normal" in your relationship, because dh and I wildly disagree

[getsonmynerves]

He is 43 but has the sexuality of a 14 year old. He is fond of making innuendos and spends all day trying to feel me up in some way/ trying to french-kiss me/ trying to dry-hump me, as soon as we are alone. It gets on my nerves soooooooooooo much and I feel like I'm constantly fending him off. In his defence though I must admit that my sex drive has been non-existent for the last five years and we hardly ever do it (less than once a month). I say his behaviour is not normal and I do regularly get cross and then he stops for a while but as soon as we start getting on better he reverts back to his old ways. He says my behaviour is not normal and that most women would love the attention and would for example jump at the chance of a five minute fondle on the bed while the kids are busy elsewhere. So who is right?

skidoodly absolutely not - if he had an affair, that would be his choice and the OP could not be blamed in the slightest for that choice.

Perhaps we need to hear back from the OP here, because you seem to be suggesting that she doesn't want to have a sexual relationship because of this behaviour, whereas I'd got the impression that the labrador behaviour was a fairly recent phenomenon and that the OP had stopped wanting regular sex with him at pretty much any time of day a long time ago. I interpreted the OP's comment as that she doesn't want sex much at all, but when she has it (rather different, IMO to "wanting it"), she'd prefer it to take place at night.

I'm afraid my take on this is that neither of the people in this relationship want sex with the other very much at all.

"As women, can I ask, how do you know if you want sex or not?"

Good question

I have a (secret, personal) rule that I never knowingly knock my DH back if he initiates sex because I know it would be hurtful. I love him and if he wants sex I will make the effort to get in the mood. Kissing him and being stroked by him always works, even if I'm tired and would quite welcome sleep.

At the moment I'm breastfeeding, so I almost never want sex. This is better than the first time I breastfed when I felt kind of dead sexually for months.

Maybe she was put off by the earlier comments from folk sympathising with her husband and telling her she wasnt normal.

If you do seek out a counseller op, make very sure she understands what the problem is. When i went, mine commented that " lots of men are like this " and lots of statements like could i meet him halfway ect, much like what youve seen here.

Thank you all for taking the time and the trouble to post, sorry I haven't been around to reply, too much real life to get on with!

For those of you that say I'm (partly) to blame, a genuine question - what can I do? I just don't want sex, shall I do it anyway to keep him happy? Or go and see a doctor - but what could a doctor actually do?

For those of you who are quite scathing about dh, he genuinely is a good man, respectful of me in every other respect, helpful, courteous and kind, always on my side, it's just this area that divides us. Having said that, after I blew up about it again yesterday, he has been lovely tonight, friendly and warm but not gropey or anything.

Really am at a loss what to do. Have thought about counselling, but it's finding the time that's the problem.

Thank you for coming back

I think I haven't posted to your thread, because I can't answer your OP question. But I would say there is nothing more important than your own emotional well-being and clarity of thought. It impacts on every aspect of your life, and on your children's - it is so worth looking after! So leave a few carpets un-hoovered, a few meals microwaved Make time for the counselling.

Wishing you well.

Gosh, this all reminds me so much of my relationship with my ex-boyfriend. I honestly thought I was the only person who felt that way. Am shuddering at the memories!

OP - I think you'll have your work cut out changing your DH's perspective on this but it's not impossible. He needs to grow up enough to respect how you feel and that might mean getting brutally frank with him like booyhoo says. But you surely can't carry on the way you are.

I never had the guts to address it with my ex but then we were pretty incompatible in other ways too so don't read too much in to that.

Good luck!

oh dear, I just posted after reading only one page... didn't realise there are four more and the discussion has moved on...! Will do my homework next time - apologies all!

Getson: Do you want sex with anyone else? IE is it just him that you don't feel any sexual desire for? Or have you always had a low sex drive?
As to what you can do, if he is an otherwise lovely husband and father, and you really can't envisgage ever wanting or enjoying sex with him, is consider how you would feel about him having sex with other people and perhaps negotiate around that with him.
Because he's not entitled to have sex with you against your wishes, but nor are you entitled to both refuse sex and insist that he doesn't have it with other people.

I would go along with that - I don't want sex with anybody - I would let him, but he is horrified at the idea, because he says he loves me.

getson - I told my DH how inappropriate was the jack russelling at all times and that it put me off even hugging him because of the fear he would do it again. This helped - I now can hug hum without any dry humping because he knows I'll back off again if he does it. BUT I now do make sure I show him affection more (it had got to the stage where I could barely even kiss him).

As I said, my libido is almost non-existent (no euphemism here ) but sometimes I can be "warmed up" if approached properly -i.e. respectfully and gently. A hug, a kiss - good starting points. REmind your DH of the importance of foreplay - and the analogy of the man = lightswitch, woman = iron.

As others have said, if you drag him along to Relate (tell them you have an issue with sexual boundaries), then he might get that it really does matter.

It's quite a tricky path to negotiate. I have been known to express 'neediness' inappropriately, and have certainly suffered partners with similar issues. If you acrry on like this, one of you - at least! - will explode. Best you make an appointment to see a grown-up, then. Hope it goes well!

Relate may well help, but you may get a counsellor who is a monogamist who will therefore insist that the answer is you making more effort to have sex rather than him seeking it elsewhere with your permission. A good counsellor may well be able to help him see that it's not a betrayal of you for him to have sex elsewhere when you simply don't want sex but don't want to end the relationship either.

I think seeing your doctor may not be a bad idea. If you've not wanted sex with anyone for 5 years you may have a hormonal imbalance.

It's a possibility I personally think you should rule out.

If he loves her, why would he want to look for sex elsewhere? In his eyes it's probably like asking him to cut his own heart out, if he wanted sex with other people he would have done it by now, 5 years is a long time to just get the odd sympathy shag, I feel really , really sorry for the poor bloke.

Saying to your partner - "go and fuck someone else because I can't be arsed" must be a real kick in the teeth.

It would be kinder to leave him and let him have a proper relationship with someone who desires him, he would come to hate you if you insisted he went for sex elsewhere when all he wants is you.

If you genuinely enjoy sex when you do have it, which I doubt you have the time to ( it's probably all over so quickly if he's so desperate) then surely you can see that making more of an effort would make it more enjoyable because the pressure wouldn't constantly be there.
You've lost the memory of prolonged sexual pleasure, it's probably a 5 minute quickie when it does happen, that leaves you wondering why you bothered .

Because love and sex are not inseperable, Mal. If he loves her, why does he want to make her put up with sex that she doesn't want and doesn't enjoy when he could go and have a cheerful romp with someone who is willing to have sex but not interested in an emotional connection?

They are inseperable to me SGB, and to an awful lot of others, if his reaction to her suggestion was to be horrified, then it's a good bet that he only wants her, pushing him to find sex elsewhere may well destroy the relationship anyway.

It doesn't sound as if the OP has even tried making an effort to regain her sex-drive, surely it's worth exploring? After all, good sex would be as much for her own benefit as for his, why would you want to deny yourself such pleasure? It's not as if sex is an unpleasant activity, even if you don't fully enjoy it , find it boring even, you can still have a nice time because you are giving something nice to your partner.
I don't like cooking, but I'll stand there and cook for my DH because he appreciates it.

It's a different situation, but if I couldn't have sex again, ever, my DH would be more than horrified if I suggested that he go elsewhere, he couldn't go out for a cheerful romp, as you put it, then come home to me, he's simply not capable of that level of detachment , neither am I.

The thing is I haven't wilfully turned my sex drive off just to annoy dh you know. We've had a hectic time the last five years with lots going on, and it's just happened.

He would be even more horrified if I suggested leaving him.

Then spend some time and effort trying to get it back?

It's quite easy, just start having more sex, a couple of times a week isn't unreasonable to aim for , all it means is going bed half an hour earlier or setting the alarm half an hour earlier in a morning twice a week.
You will feel much better for having regular sex - after all , it's free, it's good for you and it's a good workout.

Mal, some people really just don't like sex, while others thoroughly enjoy it and see no need to clutter it up with sentimentality. Yes, plenty of people do prefer to have their love and sex together, like gin with tonic, and good luck to them, but it simply doesn't work that way for everyone. This is my fundamental objection to the cult of monogamism - that monogamists seem so keen to insist everyone else does it their way. THe H seeking sex elsewhere would be a much better solution to this particular couple's problem than the W having to grit her teeth once a week in order to 'keep the family together'.

Surely anyone who truly doesn't like sex has deep psychological issues and would benefit from counselling?

The OP hasn't actually said whether she likes sex/enjoys sex, or not.

I can't honestly understand why a normal, healthy person wouldn't like sex, I can only assume that they have never had good sex. It's not like doing the ironing, boring and mind numbing but ultimately necessary, this is something we are biologically programmed to enjoy, if only for the purely physical sensations.

The H seeking sex elsewhere would only be a good solution if he was actually willing to do it and had the mind set to be able to do it.

I see it as hugely insulting to say to your partner, who you are meant to love - "I really don't like having sex with you, please leave me alone and go and fuck a stranger", how is that in any way a loving relationship? Actually it's a quite cold, heartless and inhuman thing to say, he obviously doesn't want casual sex, he wants sex with the woman he loves, which is entirely normal.

Actually SGB, I think you might be projecting the very thing you're (gently) accusing Mal of - insisting that unemotional sex with a third party would be the best solution for this man, when it is evident from what the OP says that he doesn't want this at all. Like Mal and others, it doesn't sound as though he is someone who can separate sex from love. It's only the OP who agrees this might be a solution, but not him. He doesn't want to do this - and I respect that.

So, what gives? The kindest thing to do in this situation would be to broker a compromise. OP you seem to be finding all sorts of diversions from actually trying to sort this out, including having no faith in doctors ("what would they say?") and no time for counselling. All of this is obfuscatory behaviour and evading any responsibility for tackling this. I think we all do this from time to time, hiding behind our schedules or our lack of faith in professionals, to avoid doing something.

Your H has agreed to stop the lewd behaviour, which is great and long overdue. But like I said downthread, this isn't on its own going to resolve the underlying issue. He can't make you have sex and it doesn't sound as though you think that if you tried to have sex more often, it would help you to want it more.

So if nothing changes, he's got some very sad choices to make, but he needs to take responsibility for them, what ever they might be. If you do nothing to compromise, effectively you are telling him that he has got to get used to an impoverished sex life and if he won't have sex with anyone else, he will have to lump it. If he chooses to live with that, then he will have to honour that decision.

I still wonder, like I did downthread, if there is more going on than meets the eye here - and whether he is getting ever more resentful. I wonder where that will lead to?
Will he decide that he can't live like this and come back to you to tell you so, or will he give himself permission to have a secret affair with someone he can get emotionally attached to? The latter would be the irresponsible choice, so I hope that if he feels that he cannot go on like this, he tells you first. If you love him so much, I imagine you'd be devastated if he fell in love with someone else.

It would be so helpful I think if you both stopped making excuses for having a really productive conversation and booked some counselling. Some intervention now could prevent this turning into a fairly predictable, but sad situation.

It just seems so weird that I have to spend time I don't have and effort which I could put in elsewhere into making myself do something that I could quite happily live without. Mal, you say there must be psychological issues if somebody truly doesn't want sex - but all humans are different as to what gives them pleasure and satisfaction? You might not be able to live without gardening and chocolate, whereas I find going out with my friends and reading far more pleasurable. Why can't it be on that kind of level with sex as well? I'm just not bothered by it full stop.

Mal, I really don't think it's necessarily psychological problems that cause non-enjoyment of sex. Some people just don't, some people like it only where love is involved, some people like it a lot whoever it is with. People are just different.

I did try the "Have more sex and then you'll want it more" approach - so didn't work. In fact, it made it worse. To the point that even DH was saying "oh god, do we have to".

getson - if you really want to start wanting to have sex again (which it doesn't sound like you do but your DH might like you to) - you could try a sex therapist. But I would possibly get your hormone levels checked as well just in case (I had mine done for other reasons - perfectly normal). The thing is - you can live without it quite happily (as could I) but your DH clearly can't (neither can mine) - so the question you have to ask yourself is this: do you want to make the effort for his sake, or is it not worth it to you?

I do make the effort for DH's sake - and he tries really hard not to pester me for my sake. That is a reasonable compromise, imo.