Sex before marriage

[toonosy]

This is really nosy...but was wondering if anyone actually waits until they are married before having sex these days?

Me and DH waited, we were together almost 6 years before we married. Our decision was for religious reasons, however I can't bring myself to ask my RL friends their opinions on this!

Would love to hear what everyone thinks, was going to put this in Religion but thought I'd get more responses here.

Yes I too find the LRD circs deeply suspicious. If you are too religious to have sex, you don't live with your girlfriend/boyfriend. Partner is not an accurate description unless you mean business partner.

i think if you share yourlife with someone in all aspects apart from sex - financial and emotional - for the long term- you are there to support , talk and listen to each other, then you can call that person partner. IMO

I'd say they were a friend.

I still say he must have a will of iron, or not be that interested.

When will this platonic state end?

Elasticwoman. LOL!

BTW: I am rather short, very thin and very bookish and bespecticled. Although I am not particularly introverted and have always got on well with women, I've pretty much picked up 'good friend' rather than 'boyfriend' signals from them (obviously not absolutely always, because I did get married in the end). That is what I meant by 'unattractive'. I don't I've ever been positively repellant.

custardo

What you say accords with my (Christian) perspective, except to say that sex must be involved at some point. I think Roman Catholics can have a marriage annulled on the grounds of non-consumation, and all important churches (C of E, Presbyterian, etc) would all affirm that a marriage without any sex is not functioning as it should, absent some particular reason (old age, physical illness etc).

peony - no, we don't have separate rooms. We started living together initially because it made a lot of sense practically. In the beginning I didn't think the relationship could work, but thought I'd give it a go as I liked him so much, we ended up being constantly in and out of each other's places (we rented rooms three houses apart anyway). And it was financially a lot cheaper to share a room than to rent separately. Once we got engaged we got a flat together. We're getting married in August and I am, er, looking forward to it, shall we say?!

It is a crazy situation, I know. He knows how I feel about it, too. He is very good with his hands, but no penetrative sex atm.

Btw, it's me that has the damn will of iron! I really enjoy sex so it is a deprivation for me, I'll tell you!

Btw you didn't sound harsh. I have a dark sense of humour so I do manage to be amused at the situation mostly.

Custardo, do you think it makes any difference whether there has been sex in the past in a relationship, rather totally platonic from the start?

Veryon:

short - oh you mean like Napoleon and Davey Jones from the Monkees?

thin - well some women could be seized with desire to feed you up

bookish - what does that mean? Straight spine, leather covers?

Bespectacled - creates sexy moment when you take them off and she says o but you're so handsome without your glasses.

Sounds to me like you are not quick to pick up the signals. A person who is too quick to make advances will get rejected a lot but also end up having more sex.

I think sexual attractiveness is 50% confidence and social skills and 50% hygiene and fitting in.

LRD, LOL, it sounds to me as if you are practicing 'technical chastity'! What is your DP's reason for holding back, seeing as you are committed to marriage?

I remember occasions before my marriage when getting intimate with a GF and, although I didn't realise at the time, just then she would have liked me to go ahead. Why didn't I realise? And if I had realised, would I quite possibly not have done as she asked? Probably because they were Christians too, and we had all had so many warning against pre-marital sex that I couldn't have believed she really meant it. Now, when I think back, I think DOOHHHH what an idiot. There was an upside though. Getting to having sex was as lengthy as the Quest for the Holy Grail: any further step towards it was, well, nice. And I think it did encourage me to get good at foreplay.

Elasticwoman: Perhaps more like Mr. Bean. But the DW assures me that she finds me perfectly attractive. I probably was awful at picking up the signals, but I still believe that not many were sent my way. I think, in part, that must have been because I was probably not good light-hearted dating material. I also had a few rejections. I think if I'd still been single at 27-28, I'd have got a lot more interest my way, because more people think about settling at that age. By then, of course, I was over two years married.

yes veryon agreed. i was not suggesting that sex is not an integral part to a marriage. just affirming my personal belief that a person could be considered a 'partner' if all other aspects of life are shared and sex is absent.

there are probably very many people who live such lives married or not, i am sure that they consider themselves partners.

veyron, it's his religious belief (and a bit of a cultural thing as well).

LRD- I think he is splitting religious hairs so to speak.

When religious people say no sex before marriage , I don't think their religion really means that they can do everything but penetration- I think it means they have to be pretty much hands-off altogether.

It just seems very hypocritical that they can do anything they like with a tongue, hands and any other part of their body, apart from ( for men) a penis.

I wonder if they can find any evidence in the bible or wherever to say "You can practise oral sex/unlimited touching, but not penetration?"

If I were you, I'd also be very worried about a man who could hold back as he is if you are sharing a bed. If he is a virgin he has a pretty steep learning curve ahead of him, and although that can work, it can also cause problems. (I know- I had a virgin who was 35 and I wasn't- he had held back for all kinds of reasons before he met me, and had big guilt problems. We weren't married BTW.)

I just think your fiance sounds a bit selective with his morality.

I know one guy who did, on religious grounds.

A really lovely guy, could have had any girl he wanted, but stuck to his principles. However, he freely admitted he was "gagging for it"!!!

Don't know anyone else who waited.

Have a very RC girlfriend whose fiance moved in but was "sleeping on the sofa" until they got married. Her parents believed it... (yes, they really actually did!)

DH ewaited until he met me and had decided we would share our entire lives which I think is notb the same as waiting until married but errs far more to that side than the norm route that I followed of serial monogamy. he is agnostic though: he just felt it was right for him rather than a moral rule, and I think he's probably right as he's very committed to our marriage and a break up after making that decision would have thrown him: he did have girlfriends but didn't sleep with them.

I know a few people who waited but although I have faith (as opposed to being a Church member) I woudl pass the advice on to my my boys that my Mum gave to me which was that you woudln't buy a car without a test drive and marriage is far more important as a choice.

i know some people who have never had sex, and are in their twenties-thirties...one is married.

though they aren't religious, so the actual underlying cause is more a pyschological problem.

as it is very unusual for people to not have sex for religious grounds, one suspects psychological reasons in play as well.

' That in turn would explain why illegitimacy was traditionally seen as bad

I am with PP's interpretation; stories included in bible reflecting societies need to have famillies develop that could self support and hence two aprents being acceptable

(Am no theologian, degree is in RE but the whole caboodle, xcChristianity only taking up 1/7 study)

peony, I think the 'no penetrative sex' is a compromise - there was no way I could have felt comfortable in a relationship with no sex at all. In his church, it is considered a different kind of sin from penetrative sex as well - it's not approved of, but the attitude tends to be, 'hmm, that was bad of you and your partner to give in to temptation, tut tut, but we are all human and you are getting married, so ...'. On the other hand, penetrative sex before marriage would be more serious.

His religion doesn't base decisions solely on the Bible, by the way, so it's not that relevant whether or not there is a prohibition there.

I don't believe any of this btw, just trying to explain that his stance (or rather, his faith's stance) isn't quite so contradictory as it might seem. Actually, although I would have liked sex earlier in the relationship, by now (given we've only a couple of months to the wedding), I will admit if feels quite exciting that there's that to look forward to .

LRD- don't want to be a party pooper but I'd really be worried if it were me that my fiance and I had such differing views on a subject based on his religion. What else might rear its head in future?
I am pleased in a way that you seem so releaxed over it - but maybe a bit niaive too?

I also think you should lower your expectations of your wedding night- or whenever you do have sex with him. Men take quite a while to become good lovers, and most start at around 16-18 and have loads of practise before they get married!

purplepeony
(quoting for convenience): "When religious people say no sex before marriage , I don't think their religion really means that they can do everything but penetration- I think it means they have to be pretty much hands-off altogether."

That my understanding of Christian teaching (and I note my slight hypocrisy in that regard). There isn't any verse in Scripture that says "penetration is not OK but everything is fine" or "the Lord saith what a good and pleasant thing is a hand-job after engagement". All we do have is St. Paul who says that it is "better to marry than to burn". I was taught that anything beyond kissing was getting onto a continuum of dodgyness. I imagine that some of the older Christian cultures (in the Middle East for example) would regard even that as off-limits.

veryon- your turn of phrase did make me smile especially the bit about he engagement.

Glad you agree- all my years as a Sunday school teacher have pad off.

I really do feel for LRD as I see a whole load of possible issues rearing ther heads.

I think this guy has a very selective, cherry-picking morality or psychological issues re. sex.

Maybe I am being cynical or it's my personal experience of having had a 35 yr old virgin who had avoided sex with other women- til he met me. But whose head was totally screwed up with guilt, fear of pregnancy and so on- all down to a public school education and God-fearing parents!

He put sex on such a pedestal that it was bound to go wrong- which it did!

Waiting too long can give you as many problems as can teenage sex.

My father was very fond of that quote from St Paul, Veryon. He used to say "St Paul says better marry than burn but your mother married and she still burns the cabbage!"

St Paul saw marriage as something to save you from the sin of fornication. Doesn't save you from adultery of course. He also advocated a spot of celibacy within marriage for an agreed period, rather like giving something up for Lent.

Really can't understand what Christians see in St Paul; seems a very unsympathetic character to me, some one I can't relate to at all. Except when he said a glass of wine for your health is ok.

BTW Purplepeony, what made the 35 year old virgin lose his cherry with you after avoiding sex all those years?

Elastic I'm just irresistable

peony, I do appreciate the concern, don't think I don't. I am nervous about it, but we try to talk about as much as possible and I do think he is worth making a try of it with.

I'm not blind or (I hope) naive, but I am hopeful. For the record, though, I have had some very good sex with inexperienced men (who let me tell them what to do), and also some memorably awful sex with a guy who claimed to have a whole lot of experience ... it sure hadn't taught him anything except how not to listen!

'He also advocated a spot of celibacy within marriage for an agreed period, rather like giving something up for Lent.'

Elastic, up until relatively recently, the Catholic Church taught people to abstain from (married) sex during Lent. The Orthodox Church still teaches its members to abstain during Advent, Lent, and various other times.

However St Paul, for example, is a bit of a knob.