Sex before marriage

[toonosy]

This is really nosy...but was wondering if anyone actually waits until they are married before having sex these days?

Me and DH waited, we were together almost 6 years before we married. Our decision was for religious reasons, however I can't bring myself to ask my RL friends their opinions on this!

Would love to hear what everyone thinks, was going to put this in Religion but thought I'd get more responses here.

I find the relgious aspect very interesting, not least because in some faiths people ignore certain teachings to fit in with modern day life- ie cotraception and the Catholic church.

Maybe faith has moved with the times, but I have become very anti- conventional religion as my own feelings are that is /was based on keeping the masses in line somehow and brainwashing them - based on the fear of what might ensue should you "sin" - without encouraging independent thought.

Veryon, so you're 35 now and expect your sex life to be "dried up" by the time you're both 50?
That's so very sad, your sex life generally takes a back seat while you are raising children but when they are grown up you have so much more time for each other, your sex life can enter a new and exciting phase - we are having more and better sex now, in our mid-40's and after 25 years of marriage than ever before, you can definitely have very hot sex in a very stable marriage, it just takes a bit of effort and enthusiasm.

I think you're a bit deluded about having been a virgin on marriage too, in technical terms maybe, but you had sexual experiences before you married, to me, a true virgin is someone with absolutely no sexual experience at all.

Does your wife know that you don't feel like you "click" with her, sexually?

Perhaps also veryon you could say what is not happening to make your sex life as good as you'd like?
Is it frequency, enthusiasm from your wife, technique, lack of variation etc etc.

I'd have to agree with Mal ( blimey!) that to think your sex life will die out by you are 50 is very sad and wonder why you think that?
Would you say you have a low libido? Nothing wrong with that if you are both happy with your sex life, but lots wrong if you are hankering after something more.
Me and my DH are mid 50s and still at it. Research shows that some couples in their 80s still have sex - and it's a very good way of keeping healthy.

In a rather uncomfortable exchange my late grandmother told me her and granddad were still lovers after 50 years of marriage.

Malificence and purplepeony,

A fair point: I was not completely unexperienced on my wedding night. But how much experience counts?

My DW knows of the problem. To say that I'm 'not entirely happy' would be to miss the mark slightly. It is just that we don't have a certain instinct towards each others' sexual desires.

Yes, there are specific problems, but I suspect that they are symptoms rather than causes. From my perspective they are: 1. my wife often finds herself too stressed to be in the mood, 2. she's not all that interested in her appearance (which might at least help me get in the mood) 3. there are things that she won't do and doesn't like (ironically enough, no oral) 4. she doesn't seduce, or flirt - if I'm not interested, she's not interested, she says. But as I say, I think all these things are symptoms. Basically, we married each other because we reckoned we were best friends - and having sex with one's best friend is always going to be a bit odd, isn't it?

Earlier in the marriage, I think I was too shy about telling her exactly what I wanted, which is what I should have done. But the DW is someone of strong opinions, and therefore I have always had to use tact, and to pick my moment.

Whether I lack libido I don't know - I don't think so, and I don't think my DW does either. She wants sex as much as me. It's just that it's not a subject that fascinates her particlarly. Rather like two people who get equally hungry, but one is happy with large plate of beans on toast while the other wants coq au blanc with new potatoes, asparagus and creme brulee to follow.

The Bible talks about "fornication" which is any sex outside marriage, and "adultery" which is when at least one person in a copulating couple, is married to some one else.

Adultery is mentioned in the 10 commandments but fornication isn't. However, some religious people believe that fornication is a form of adultery. This is where interpretation comes in.

I think the practical reasons for discouraging sex before marriage were:

too much chance of conceiving a child to 2 parents who might not want to stay together to bring up the child

people becoming parents before having the maturity or financial stability to bring up a child

woman might not know who has fathered the child, if she has had many partners

sexually transmitted diseases would increase, causing infertility and passing on disease to the next generation; some STDs are chronic or fatal.

And that's before you address the emotional and spiritual reasons.

veryon
Your latest post seems sad and full of contradictions.
You are obviously a very intelligent and thoughtful man- I like your use of analogy! (and don't mean to sound patronising here.)

But it seems as if you wife is not at all interested in sex with you! I don't know what you mean by she wants sex as much as you do when everything esle you say suggests otherwise and that she finds it all rather a chore. And she, presumably, is happy with baked beans, when it happens!

We all meet people ( of the opposite sex) we can be great friends with , but a relationship is not usually platonic or without chemistry. It sounds as if your is without chemistry. It also sounds as if your wife is opting out of, or not fully engaging in a full sexual relationship- except on her terms and under some sort of duress.

Your entire post seems to me- as a woman- to say one word "rejection". She can't be bothered to make herself look good, she can't be bothered to seduce you or rather take the initiative, and she deprives you of oral sex which you seem to rather enjoy.

It's not up to me or anyone to say this is a "bad" relationship- but it does seem one-sided in terms of sex, and you obviously are nothappy with the status quo. If it bothers you then maybe you need to communciate this more to her. If it doesn't bother you, then that's fine! it sounds as if you have accepted something which you'd really like to change, but have given up all hope of doing so.

I am rather curious about Veryon's wife's lack of interest in her appearance. Does this mean she makes less effort than formerly? Could it be a sympton of depression, or feeling that she can't afford new clothes, hairdresser, make up etc? Does Veryon ever take her out to places where a bit of dressing up is required?

I am sorry that you regret your virginal state at marriage now. Look at it the other way - at least you did not come to marriage with baggage of previous relationships, children, sexually transmitted diseases etc.

My dh was not a virgin when we met but I was quite happy not to be practised on.

Elastic what do you mean by you were happy not be be practised on?

Do you mean you were a virgin, and if so, do you regard sex outside marriage as "practising"? That makes you sound very submissive as if you were being "done" rather than taking part in it 50/50!

I mean that because he had some experience he knew what he was doing. On the other hand, some men have plenty of experience and still don't know how to give satisfaction. He was my first lover if that's what you were asking. But not my last.

ahhhhhhhhhh..... all makes sense now!
Agree with you anyway- practise doesn't always make perfect.

Well it does help!

But it depends upon the attitude going into any learning process doesn't it?

Anyhoo I'm married to my best friend and it is fab.

Purplepeony,

I don't think it's rejection on her part. If so, it would have to be unconscious. Otherwise, she would do something about it, because that is the sort of thing she does. In fact, you could even see it as rejection on my part. If my response to beans on toast is to say "well, in that case I'm not hungry", I'm the one doing the rejecting.

Since our marriage began, I've been the one to suggest new things. I suspect that if I didn't, we'd be having sex exactly the same way as we first married. I do think the DW wants me to be satisfied with our sex life, however, her response to new suggestions tends to be a) yes or b) no (yuk) or c) yes, but clearly without enthusiasm, which rather takes off the shine. BTW, I've never had oral, I've only ever done it!

elastiwoman The DW has many interests, but clothes have never beeen one of them.

Oh very- I just feel so sorry for you
no oral sex - ever.

I am a firm believer in all activities are acceptable if both parties want them, and not if one doesn't. But if your wife really loves you- is she not willing to at least try? What you are asking or perhaps wanting is not out of the realms of "normality" it's not like you are asking her to urinate or defacate on you- all of which are some people's ideas of fun!

I can't quite see why you think you are rejecting her- unless you mean that you get sick of say the missionary position and would rather not bother!

I gues if what you do now- or don't do- doesn't really bother you, then that's fine- who are we to say otherwise. But if you feel that you could be closer and happier with more sex an d more varied sex then maybe you need to discuss this more so that in time it doesn't become a deal-breaker.

To be blunt- are you happy to die knowing that you will never have had oral sex ?

A lot of women won't give oral sex , maybe she has issues she just can't get past? Does she think of it as demeaning for example?
Would she be willing to use a toy on you, there are things that simulate the feel of oral sex and maybe if she saw what pleasure it gave you, it might be a turn on for her?

She sounds a bit scared of her own sexuality imho , she might want things she daren't admit, even to herself - was she brought up to believe that sex is dirty? (in the bad sense rather than the good).

Would she go for something like the board game monogamy, after a couple of glasses of wine she might loosen up and be a bit adventurous.

She (and you) is missing out on so much pleasure - you said a while back that she "likes sex", actually she has very little idea of how fabulous sex can be - half the fun is doing something that your partner loves, just for the pure joy of giving pleasure.

Mal: are you of the opinion that women who have no desire to give oral sex should do so anyway? And should men who don't want to give oral sex also give it a go, even if they don't like the idea?

I always thought good sex should be consensual.

EW_ don't want to speak for Mal but having read her post already I don't think she is saying that at all.
She seems to be encouraging the W to try using sex toys to simulate oral sex- in the hope that this might pave the way for a more direct experience!
Very different from just saying/forcing her to go down there!

That's exactly what I was saying .

I'm also of the opinion that you can't fully enjoy sex unless you obtain as much pleasure from giving as receiving.

If someone doesn't get hugely turned on from watching/feeling their partner's enjoyment as they give them oral sex/ whatever their partner really likes, they have a problem.

I have to admit that at 35 I wasn't as sexually aware as I am now, sex was nice, it was satisfying, but it was lacking somehow - it wasn't until I was 40 that sex became the mind blowing experience that it is now, mainly down to changing my attitude and admitting that I wanted a bit more kinky stuff.
It's never to late to change things, but veryon's wife can only do that herself, he can't make her more sexually adventurous - he could get something like the book "super hot sex" by Tracey cox, to see if it would broaden his wife's imagination.

I think I am giving the impression that my marriage is not a happy one. I can assure you that I feel fulfilled by it in all other respects. We love each other very much. So Purplepeony in answer to your question, not getting oral would never become a deal breaker if my marriage in all other respects remained as good as it is now. I will add that I am working through the sex issue with the DW when I can in a sensitive way, and I appreciate the advice of all of you, which I find helpful. At the end of the day, this (or an unfulfilling sex life more generally) simply could never be worth my leaving, or being unfaithful.

What I've clearly got is a marriage that contains typical results of the no-sex-before rule. In all other respects, we knew each other very well before marriage. But, in my experience, even heavy petting only told me so much about what sex during marriage would be like. Approx 50 years ago, so I understand, sex was more furtive, for want of a better word, than it is now. Someone like myself could probably have gone through life without realising that there was anything more (although Malificence, I find you comment about how you felt at 35 interesting - I totally agree). Now - thank goodness - everything is discussed more openly. What many of the churches have done (not the C of E or the RCC, but more the newer, Americanised churches) is try to market the idea of no-sex-before-marriage by suggesting that once one is married, one can expect mind-blowing sex. It's irresponsible, and I have a very strong suspicion that there are lots of Christian married couples who are, frankly, frustrated, but who can't admit to this so as not to let the side down.

In my experience of Christians as a (Christian) teenager (I am still very devout, by the way) there were a) those who quietly ignored the rule, b) those who did everything but, ie, technical virgins, c) those with sufficiently low libidos to stick to the rule, d) those who were sufficiently scared to avoid anything to do with sex, e) those who were too unattractive and f) those who by pure chance didn't end up in bed with someone else. I was a mixture of e) and f). A previous girlfriend of mine was definately c) and d) though. She set strict physical limits early. I also remember her getting upset on another occasion when her brother jokingly commented that I probably wanted to get into her knickers. I said that was true enough, but was happy to wait. She didn't like that. I am so glad that I wan't so naive as to marry her, as I think I would have ended up in real trouble.

sex before marriage is fine as long as it does not make you late for the church

pmsl@RunawayWife

My Mum is no sex before marriage and when she found at almost 17 that I was on the pill (taking responsibility for my sexual health, having been with my boyfriend for a year before having sex, and fully intending to use condoms also) she called me a slapper. Which was nice. I think you need to raise your children to be responsible without necessarily forcing your own opinions on them. My parents weren't happy for me to spend the night with my boyfriend at age 17 even though I was about to go away to university when they would have no idea what I was up to and who I was up to it with. Due to their restrictiveness, I definitely went slightly more crazy than I would have done otherwise during first year at uni, only this way with less support around. Not how I would raise children!

Veryon I cannot believe you are or were as unattractive as you have twice asserted. You sound gorgeous. It is very interesting to hear your views on how no sex before has affected your marriage afterwards.

Although my longstanding dh was my first lover, there was a break in our relationship before we married, during which I had sex with some one else. He was tall dark and handsome and my father thought the sun shined out of him. However, in bed, this is what literally happened (can you believe it?)

Him: (after wriggling around a bit and then stopping) I'm going to come now, and I'd like you to come too if you can.

Me: (speechless).

I realised (a) dh was a far better bet and (b) doesn't matter how attractive your partner is, and how much you fancy him, if he doesn't have the skills or knowledge to do the deed properly and you don't have the intimacy with him to be able to discuss it, the relationship is going to fail.

! at *elasticwoman.

I like SGB and Mal's posts on this thread.

My DP is religious and so we don't have sex. I think it is mad as the proverbial box of frogs, esp. since we live together, but I can put up with it. I started off being very unsure about having a relationship with him at all (given his views), but I'm so happy with him, it seems like the right thing.

LRD- what? You live with a guy as his partner but he won't have sex with you?
Do you have separate bedrooms?

What is the future for your relationship- wedding date planned presumably?

He must have masses of self control, or he has alow libido- or maybe is gay?
Sorry to sound so harsh but cannot see how he justifies this half-way house to himself and his religion.
Do you have a strictly "hands-off" relationship, oris the no-sex just a techincality which means you do ther stuff bt not full sex?