What Would You Do?

[YallaYalla]

Hi,

Looking for a bit of advice please. I am slowly working out that DH has some major issues with passive aggressive behaviour. We've just come back from a week-long holiday and he is no longer talking to me because of a row we had on the last day. He has gone into emotional shutdown and as usual I am paying the price.

In brief: I wanted to do something (buy a souvenir on our last night) which he didn't want to do; I could tell he wasn't keen and offered to leave him in the bar we were having sundowners in while I nipped up to the shop; he didn't take me up on this offer, and also did not say he didn't want to do it when I asked him in a friendly way about it.

So we leave bar and walk to shop buy souvenir, him seemingly in an ok mood. On leaving shop he gets into a major strop because he was very sweaty and hot from the walk (tropics) and within a space of about 5 minutes shuts down totally.

Doesn't want to do anything, goes mute, won't respond to queries of if he's ok, my offers to go and stand in areas where there is AC, queries about which bar he would like to go to next and where we should have dinner on our last night.

Eventually he says he's had enough and wants to go back to the hotel and do nothing/watch TV. It's 8pm, it's the last night of our holiday and we're both dolled up for a good night out.

I'm pretty pissed off, but use my usual tactics for snapping him out of these moods - cuddling him, ignoring his mood, teasing him gently, trying to take charge in a non-confrontational way. It worked for a bit, and then I got a bit exhausted by the whole effort and said, fine, let's go back to the hotel. We are waiting in a taxi queue and I say I'm just popping into this shop to use the loo.

He claims he thought I said 'see you back at the hotel'. I though I'd made it fairly clear I was just nipping to the loo but it's possible he didn't hear me as we were about 10 metres away from each other. Anyway, point is, I return from the loo and he's vanished.

He KNOWS I have no money in my pocket whatsoever (he always carries the cash on nights out on holiday) and no mobile phone which I've left in the hotel safe. So he's dumped me in the middle of a capital city in Asia. Admittedly, it's a safe city, it's not late, I know the way back to the hotel 20 minutes away, and we're in a really touristy area. But it's the principle of just being dumped like that without even money for a taxi. I'm furious. Walk back to hotel room.

Half an hour later he shows up. I am fuming. Not proud of what happens next but I use the security chain to stop him getting access to the hotel room. I tell him he's not coming in as he dumped me in a foreign city with no resources. He asks again to be let in. I say no and slam the door shut.

Eventually, at 2am, he tries the door again. This time I've softened and feel pretty bad for locking him out of the room (even though HE had his wallet and credit cards and finances mean he could easily booked himself another room in the same hotel for the night). I let him in, he walks in in silence and hasn't spoken to me since.

We flew home in silence and he sat separately to me from the plane. Now we are home and he's still in the silent treatment mode, sleeping on the sofa. Total emotional frigging shutdown.

Now. I KNOW I was unreasonable to prevent him access to the hotel room for a few hours. I haven't apologised yet either (he's stonewalling me and I don't see what value it would have at this time). But, as usual, it's me who looks the nutter.

He could not express feelings on us going to the shop. He 'punishes' me for taking us there by shutting down emotionally, and then abandoning me on the last night of our holiday in a foreign city with no bloody money in my pocket. I shut him out of the hotel room but in no way compromised his safety (for all I know he spent the intervening hours in the hotel lobby bar knocking back single malts). And, as usual, I am sitting here tearing my hair out, trying to find a way to get him to open up and being given the silent treatment.

I've spent some time on the internet this morning looking at PA behaviour. I'm sure he doesn't have the PA personality disorder as generally he is a very good, loving, honest man who holds down a very stressful and highly-paid job and - this issue aside - our marriage is strong and we have a good relationship. But I just can't BEAR this passive aggressive shit.

What am I supposed to do?
Any tips for how I can make myself feel better while his mood subsides?
Any tips for how I can snap him out of it?
Should I apologise for locking him out of the room?

Sorry - this is an essay - just feel like I'm going mad here. Thanks if you got this far.

I find it ineresting that you are so keen to analyze HIM and his entire family but you have choosen to ignore my questions about YOUR emotions and my suggestion for solo counselling. Obviousely you dont want to question why you are staying with him.

Anyway i am leaving the thread as i think you only want to hear certain things and truly wishing you good luck.

Laquitar not ignoring your suggestion. There is a lot to take in (I'm re-reading the thread right now) and I'm just trying to absorb it all.

There are many different opinions here (although a lot saying a similar thing about control etc) and I'm still processing it.

I'm wondering why I need counselling though? I am not the one (as I see it! ) with the behaviour problem here.

Now I know this is going to sound all 'battered woman' but I really don't think our relationship is fundamentally broken. He is usually a loving, generous man who looks after me well. Cuddles me and supports me. Loves me and tells me so. Encourages me to train for my career and supports my hopes and ambitions. I love him (very, very dearly).

The way I see it, he has some serious issues with his arguing style. He shuts down, balls me out and refuses to engage to resolve the argument. I am very upset by this. I am going to push him to address these problems as, thanks to the advice on here, I can see how this is unacceptable and how he is trying to control me or manipulate me into forgiving him, or whatever his motivation is.

But - I stress - this is NOT a regular part of our life. It happens a couple of times a year when we have a row. We have many day-to-day disagreements where this is NOT the pattern. Many potential disagreements are resolved very quickly, very amicably, with him taking the lead in apologising and being the first to say he loves me.

But a few times - and I can't work out why certain times this happens - it's total withdrawal. That is what I am trying to address.

Also - re counselling - I am not in a part of the world where there would be good therapy available. It is something I am keen to pursue - either solo or joint or whatever - but it won't happen here. It's a hurdle.

Also - many friends know both of us well. I am 100% sure that NONE of them, who know our relationship well (admittedly not these silent-treatment problems, but everything else) would say he is controlling me. Or that I need to leave. It doesn't mean I don't value this MN advice, I really do, hugely so, but I'm struggling with the dynamics.

I also think counselling is urgently needed, for you both. This is a choice he makes - to behave this way. It's also his choice to recognise the behaviour as inherited from his mother, and to accept that as being 'the way he is' as it were, when there is no reason why anyone should act like their parents unless they actually want to.

I find it extraordinary that he recognises that he learnt this from his mother, that he disapproves of it in her, and yet persists with it for you and only you, the person he's supposed to love and care for over all others.

I know nobody's perfect, and I wouldn't for one minute suggest to you that my relationship with my DH is fault-free, but if we row in the way that you describe there's no way we could keep up a non-speaking front for days... I think that's quite abnormal tbh. It would be a couple of hours or overnight at absolute most.

Yalla Yalla,
i have to come back to reply to your last post as i wouldn't like to leave you upset.

I didn't say 'you need counselling', i said 'perhaps it could be a good idea'.
I didn't mean it as 'you weirdo, you need counselling' and i hope you don't take it this way.

In my case, solo counselling helped me to question why i was trying to 'cure' him, why i was focussing on HIS happiness, why i was not demanding a better situation for myself.

But every case is different. I suppose i'm not helping because i am biased from my own eexperiece. Anyway now i have to go anyway because dcs are back, i hope your talk goes well.

Op counselling is suggested because you are analyzing your h behaviour, thats really not your problem . Your problem is you, and what your going to do about it. What you should be doing is analyzing why you are willing to tolerate it, and considering a child with someone who wont even commit to saying whether he wants one or not.

Re your freinds, they are not in your relationship, you are, and im quite positive they dont see him sulking at you for days making you cry.

I know its hard to consider, and i can see you struggling with it, but some of your statements are a little bit contadictive. I really really find it hard to beleive that these episodes happen as rareley as you say, im not saying your lying, but im suggesting other behaviours might be so subtle you dont even notice.

Either someone is prone to being controlling / manipulitive, or theyre not. And if they are , its unlikeley that they would only display this behaviour a few times a year. I wonder if you are assuming because he is supportive of your career, is affectionate ect this isnt very serious as we tend to think of serious controllers as aggressive violent types.

There are several books it might be worth you reading, why does he do that by lundy bancroft, and controlling people by patricia evans. The sad thing is op, there is absoluteley nothing you can do about his behaviour , he knows he does it, knows you dont like it but chooses to continue , the only thing to do is to decide whether you are willing to put up with it or not, and if you are , youll need to find ways to disengage him when hes doing this.

Be warned though, when a certain behaviour ceases to work, another one usually takes its place.

A very helpful and insightful post, dignified.

Thanks so much for your - and all other posters' - input. You have given me a lot to think about.

re the children thing, I've gone round and round it with him - asking him just put a vague percentage on it, whether it's more or less than 50% (because I'm not 100% sure myself, so I put my desire to have kids at about 70 to 80%). But I just never seem to get a clear answer.

I will talk to him tonight, see what happens.

Have just seen this and wanted to say that if you are not 100% sure about children (not sure if anyone is ever 100% dead certain by the way!) then it would be a big error, imo, to take a risk on this with a man who wants you to take the decision on whether or not to have children.

That sort of decision has got to be a genuine, joint, positive decision one way or the other. If he leaves it to you, then you can be sure that at some point it will come back to bite you - whether it is making decisions about dcs' education / behaviour / upbringing, or when things get tough or boring (both of which happen with dcs!) then he can leave you to take the brunt of the work by saying "well you chose to have them, you look after them" for example... and you will never be able to argue against that, because he is being very clear that he does not want to make a decision.

Just think - if he makes you make the decision about where to go for dinner then gets cross or sulky when he doesn't like it, what is going to be different when "your" decision was to have children?

Hope the attempt to get through to him this evening goes well.

It took my children being in danger for me to face up to what was really going on with my wonderful husband/ fantastic father. It is very slow, and very invasive and so very subtle. It's the smaller incidents, which over time do the damage, and when you're on to them, they WILL find another way to control you. You are on to him, he will sense this.

I'm STILL struggling with the fact that I was in an abusive relationship. I still don't want it to be true, but my love for my children is bigger.

I am still praying that he will seek help, and we can find a way through this, and although that is possible, it is extremely unlikely. Still thinking about him, curing him, looking after him, when I should be focussing on me.

Lundy Bancroft, and for me, Patricia Evans are definitely worth a look.

I am really sorry you are in this position.

OK. Deep breath. This is what happened last night. Sorry but it's going to be long.

I waited till he'd come in, chilled out a bit and had dinner, then went downstairs and said I wanted to talk. He sort of half-smiled, I think he thought it was 'make-up' time, didn't appear to want to talk but I said it was important and I needed him to hear what I had to say.

Started by apologising for locking him out on holiday. I said that after I locked him out I expected him to come back and try again 30 mins later or so, not to be gone for 5 hours. He said that he did actually come back several times, ringing the doorbell, but that I never answered. This is possible (I'm fairly sure our hotel doorbell was broken) - and it was only when he finally knocked that I heard it and let him in. So I can see why he was a bit pissed off. I apologised, said I had felt very frustrated with his behaviour.

I asked him why he dumped me in town - he says he thought I had enough for a taxi (it's possible he thought this, I had about 50p in my pocket, and taxis cost about 1 pound). I could give him the benefit of the doubt on this, but told him it was the principle I was angry with.

I then asked why he went into a strop in the first place. No clear answer. By this stage he was very monosyllabic. I can't remember all the details but he was pretty sullen, not really talking or answering questions.

I then asked why he was doing the silent treatment thing. 'I don't want to talk' was the answer. I said it's not acceptable to treat me that way. Said I loved him but I absolutely cannot cope. He just kind of shrugged. No reaction really. I asked him if this was his mum's influence - he sort of rolled his eyes as if to say 'here we go'. No clear answer.

I then gave a long explanation as to why this treatment hurts me. How painful I find it. How this is supposed to be a marriage. Can he stop this behaviour? At first he said 'ok then' but was very unconvincing. Later he said I'd just have to deal with it.

I didn't bring up counselling. I didn't think it was the right time, I was going to try again in a couple of days time.

I think he was shocked that I was being so persistent on the silent treatment thing. He wasn't expecting a full analysis like that. He retreated. Sort of clamped up more (if that's possible).

Eventually we were going round in circles - me asking questions and him not really answering. Then he said 'look you said you needed 10 minutes and it's been half an hour' can we stop talking. Can't remember what I replied. Then - and this really pissed me off - he started fiddling with his laptop. It had been on his lap when we started talking and stayed on his lap the whole time. Our conversation had sort of come to an end, but he then just started looking at his laptop and scrolling with his mouse.

I'm afraid I just saw red. I honestly can't remember what I shouted but I snatched the laptop out of his hand and hurled it onto a footstool just by our feet. I think I then stood up and screamed something very loudly - I honestly can't recall what. I moved a few metres away as I was screaming. He looked furious that I had done that to his laptop (and by now it had fallen off the stool and onto the floor).

He then screamed something at me - can't remember what but maybe 'don't throw my things around' or similar - and then picked up a bowl he'd just eaten dinner out of and hurled it at the floor. Not at me, but it smashed near my feet and bits of the food went on my foot. I thought it was blood and lost it. When he saw me look at my foot he went white as a sheet and said the only thing that sounded genuine and the only thing that resembled a sentence since we had started speaking: 'Oh god that didn't get you did it?'. I didn't reply, ran crying out of the room and into our back yard. He followed me. Said he desperately wanted to check if I was injured or not - looked very worried. By now I'd worked out it wasn't blood it was food. Somehow we ended up crying (well, I did) and sort of in some weird embrace.

Then went back inside. He cleared up the dish. Sat back on the sofa. Stared at the TV. Silence.

I then totally lost it and started crying, saying that this couldn't continue. Everything poured out. It was only then - at this point - that I finally appeared to have got through to him. He pulled me to him, stroked my hair, while I went on about how this pattern of behaviour had to stop. He looked very concerned but didn't really say anything. But I could see the implications of all this were hitting home.

It's all a bit of a blur but basically we went to bed. He held me in bed. This morning he was very loving, said he loved me bla bla bla. There was no mention of last night but we were both taking it in I think. We got up.

Then I noticed a tiny cut on my toe from the bowl. I said my foot is cut and he came over immediately and said 'was that me'? I said yes. He said sorry over and over, kissed toe, faffed about getting a plaster etc. Hugged me. Said sorry. Said he loved me.

Then the morning sort of continued as normal and I've just dropped him at work. He has reverted to 'normal' as it were, talking again.

But obviously there is a big fucking elephant in the room as to a) what happened last night and b) not much resolved over the silent treatment issue.

What should I do? I honestly can't think what's right. I don't want to act rashly and regret something.

I think I need 24 hours or so to cool off and then I should suggest we get counselling - for my temper tantrums and his controlling silent treatment thing.

I so want this to be ok.

Good. I feel as if I almost know you after that.

Last night sounds like it resolved nothing. He won't be able to talk about it because that would mean admitting his bad behaviour and taking ownership of it. Until he does that, nothing will change, and that includes the small and large decisions that he won't take any kind of responsibility for either - children, where to eat, etc.

I grew up with a parent like this, who wouldn't argue/discuss things in a rational and equal way, just sulked for days or weeks on end, at the end of which I was usually still in the dark as to what the sulk had ever been about. I can understand how condensedmilk feels about this as I feel similar. Growing up frightened of what mood your parent is going to be in each day, or delaying getting home from school because you just can't face the moods, is not pleasant.

Even now, when I am in my forties, I still feel nervous phoning home because I don't know what the reception will be - pleasant, monosyllabic or antagonistic.

Perhaps you need to give your relationship a time limit. You say you are not 100% sure about children, but how could you be, given his lack of enthusiasm? Maybe with a different man, you would 100% want children, because he would too - a joint enthusiasm and life adventure. If you stay with him and don't have children, when will you regret it? 5 years, 10, 20? If you have children with him, I can guarantee theat they will be unhappy unless he changes radically. Not good options, then.

But maybe, you could give him a set time period to change, say 1 year? In that time, he could receive counselling/therapy, learn to take ownership of his problems, and then decide and manage to change. Then you would know, wouldn't you, if he was the right life partner for you, the right man to start a family with?

Im really sorry to hear this op, what are you going to do ?

ezinearticles.com/?Is-the-Silent-Treatment-a-Case-of-Emotional-Abuse?&id=3661043

i used to be like him a bit. i don't do it anymore because i realised it was childish and it's far better to just SAY IT and move on.

he doesn't seem to have the ability / intention of fixing this.

if you have kids, you will have less sleep, a lot more housework, your lives will change beyond recognition, how you parent will be a source of tension, worry over dc's etc. all add up to creating stress in a marriage. you may not experience all these things, or some to more of a degree than others, but it won't be a bed of roses.

if he feels pushed into this it will be YOUR fault and you will be recycling your childhood with your dad on your dc's. you will not have a partner to help bring up your dc's, you will be a single parent, managing dc's AND a difficult adult child. think about it hard and decide whether that is what you want.

right now it is very clear to me that he can't / won't change, unless he gets some help.

it is very hard.

Op i think the first thing to do is educate yourself about whats really happening as you seem to be downplaying it ( which is completeley normal by the way ).Have you looked at Womans Aid ? They list this behaviour as domestic violence, seems extreme doesnt it .I suggest you have a look at their website and perhaps give them a call, or the equivelant in your area.

I doubt this conversation will be resurrected when he gets home, hes made it clear its not up for discussion. Why should he have to explain himself to you ? Why should he have to listen to your thoughts and feelings ? You refer to this behaviour as sulking or silent treatment, whereas i call it abuse, its a violation of your rights as a person, your not allowed to express yourself , and if you do, your ignored.You are not an equal in this marriage.

The message is loud and clear " i do not care how my behaviour upsets you , and i intend to keep doing it ".

Looking at it like that, how can there be a marriage where issues are not discussed, your thoughts and feelings dont matter, and when you object you are told youll just have to deal with it ? If he told you that your behaviour was upsetting for him, presumably you would stop, instead of saying just deal with it. Its not normal op.

Yes you have nice times together, hes generous and loving , but what intimacy is there if you cannot be heard, cannot discuss things and the person who claims to love you refuses to listen?

Ive been in a similar marriage, and im ashamed to say i didnt spot this until it had progressed into something much more serious. Tiptoeing around someone, cajoling them, choosing carefully when to raise issues and then being made to feel like your a moaning git , all these things eventually eat away at your self confidence, and eventually, who you are.

Stop analyzing him op, stop wondering how you can fix him, and start getting mad. Who is this guy to sulk at you, make you cry, tell you youll have to deal with it ? Who does he think he is ? He doesnt get to control your feelings, make you cry or cause you to become so frustrated your throwing things.

And as said previously, its reserved only for you.

The problem here as well is that his patterns of closing down behaviour are deeply inbuilt and learnt from his Mum. Both she and his Dad (who acted as a bystander within that particular dysfunctional family unit) have done him an awful lot of emotional harm. You also learnt damaging lessons from your Dad as well and I reckon your H and your Dad are extremely similar in nature.

Please do not even consider having a child by him. He would only subject any child to his innate learnt behaviours and they would learn from him as both of you learnt from your own parents.

I don't think you can fix him at all and you should not even try. Such men too will likely never go to counselling (as at heart they think they have done nothing wrong) and will give a myriad of excuses as to why they cannot or will not. If you are thinking of counselling you would be better off discussing the issues without him present because he will likely talk over and minimise you if he did. You do need an impartial third party, your friends who personally know you do not fully know the ins and outs of your marriage. What is going on currently behind your closed front door is highly damaging to you.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts this morning.

ScaredofCows - yes last night resolved nothing, except to help me identify that this issue must be resolved. We cannot go on like this (gawd sound like David Cameron here!). I agree that with a different man I might quite possibly really want children and be really sure. I think that by refusing to tell me what he wants, he is effectively preventing me from making a decision, because how can I make a decision like that alone? Perhaps it's part of his strategy, although I'm not sure he's that cunning.

dignified - thanks for the link. Unlike some of the stuff I've been searching on 'controlling relationships' where I can find not a single piece of evidence that fits the glove, this piece on the Silent Treatment really does. He is effectively - for short periods of time - denying me my voice by refusing to listen. That is what is so frustrating.

Also thanks dignified for your post. It really struck a chord with me. I don't think I tiptoe around him but I do agree that he is treating my emotional needs an unimportant. The kids thing is the ultimate example - we've had maybe 40 conversations about it (some lasting just a few sentences) and never once has he given me something concrete to work on. I keep HAVING to bring it up because he won't address the question. And then it results in a mood.

Attila - yes he has learnt this from his parents. They have an utterly awful relationship and cannot communicate on any level whatsoever. It's like watching two zombies parent. By contrast DH is much better of course - we can discuss things openly and do successfully make a lot of joint decisions - but he has learnt this behaviour, and is unwilling or unable to stop it. I would like to think - I HAVE to think - that this can be fixed though. My Dad has terrible silent/grumpy phases but despite this I felt I had a loving, stable home and my parents still love each other and communicate. But I totally recognise the horrible irony in this situation.

I've just sent this link to one of my closest friends, who has known both of us for years - in fact she introduced us. But she is 'my' friend, if you see what I mean, I've known her almost 20 years.

She said a lot of wise things. She is not applying a label to his behaviour (and I understand her reluctance to do so) but she helped put a lot in perspective for me. She said we clearly have huge communication problems (or rather, it's HIS problem which has become our problem) and that most of it is about conflict resolution. She said such behaviour is likely to get worse or more regular. She believes the only way forward is for him/me/us to get counselling. She recognises that persuading him to do so might be very hard.

She thinks it's potentially 'fixable' though - I know a lot of you guys don't but right now, I have to at least try.

She also said a lot of the conflict (he is pissed off because I am making him do stuff he doesn't want to do, be it buy a souvenir or whether to have kids) MIGHT be made worse by the fact that now, I am regularly asking about/pushing the children issue. That maybe his behaviour is worse because he can sense I am starting to make more demands on him.

It was so great to talk to her.

I think I will let things cool off for a couple of days. He comes back at the end of the week before leaving again for 5 days of business. I think that before he leaves on that trip I will put it to him that I am deeply unhappy with 'our' communication issues (will try not to assign blame at this stage!) and that it makes me unhappy and fearful for our future. And that we should see a counsellor.

I have no idea how he will react but if he doesn't want to then I guess I have to decide whether it's ultimatum time, or whether this is something I could/should live with.

Gosh, this so reminds me of XH. He wasn't very good at abuse, though he gave it his best shot, but he sure had the passive/aggressive thing down to a T. He could be so kind and loving too, particularly after I'd had a psycho screaming fit, with or without throwing things (the latter very rare, I hasten to say - I didn't have the energy to waste on emotional upheavals, so it was more often a quiet cry). Quite often I didn't know what had set him off; I'd just see "that" look settle over his face and think "here we go again...". Could be days before he'd offer more than a grunt or a monosyllable in answer to a direct question, and if I said "we need to talk this over" it would be "what's there to talk about", muttered without opening his teeth or looking in my direction. Eventually I'd either cajole him out of it or go apeshit. Either way it would be extra-nicey for a few days and then everything settled back to normal as though the whole thing had never happened (indeed, if I mentioned it, he would claim it HAD never happened).

Another bell rang about the going out to the "wrong" place thing. When we were first married, we had an invite from his parents to have Christmas dinner with them. I said, how do you feel about this? He said I must decide what I thought was right. I said in that case I would accept the invitation, and explained my reasons. Well, we rolled up at their door on the day and he had SUCH a face on...! I asked what's the matter. After muttering "nothing" for a bit, but still clearly furious, he said how awful it was having Christmas dinner with his unspeakable father and he had hoped to have a quiet time at home together, just us and the (already numerous) pets. I said why didn't you say something weeks ago? He said "I thought you would make the right decision". Maybe this was some kind of a test to see whether we were really soulmates or something, which I had failed by not choosing the option he would have chosen. Or equally likely, he was a f*ing coward who wanted to leave the job of explaining to his parents why we wouldn't spend Christmas with them to ME.

Perhaps if I'd been firmer - or gone psycho every time instead of trying to be reasonable - he would have given it up, I don't know. I didn't want to be big bully woman, and believed him to be depressed, so I went for the cajoling more often than the confronting, and the screaming only as a last resort! As it was, he got worse over the years, till eventually it was intolerable. It wasn't the only ghastly thing by any means, but was perhaps the hardest to bear. I'd never heard the term "passive aggressive" until my brother used it in the context of my soon-to-be ex, but it fitted like a glove.

Where does this ramble get the OP? Possibly nowhere, but it sure was cathartic! I think the thing is that such behaviour IS abuse, but it's a question of degree and whether the PA person is willing to try to change. If they don't recognise/acknowledge it, they won't get better and will very likely get worse as they get older and more set in their ways. My own feeling is that the OP needs to get her H to believe that she really cannot put up with it, that she really will leave if it's not addressed. Hopefully that will get through to him at last, and he will actually do something about it. It sounds like it didn't work for his previous partner though...

Crossed with your last post, YallaYalla. Your friend sounds very wise.

Op if you search for controlling relationships you will see examples of a partner trying to control his partners activitys which doesnt apply to you. Try searching for Emotional Abuse , and youll see various examples of whats happening to you. Its sobering stuff when you see these tactics written down.

Im glad youve spoken to your freind , as youll get much needed support, but please be carefull about applying words like " conflict resolution ",because it really isnt. The subjects you raise arent causing conflict, his urge to control is causing the conflict.

Im not picking at you op, and i hope you dont think i am ( feel free to tell me to button it ) but I note you say your not going to assign blame and instead phrase it as " our " communication problem. Can i ask why this is ? Why are you willing to take the blame for someone elses behaviour ?

I ask, although i know the answer because ive done it myself, its so you dont apear critical, in the hope you might get a reasonable discussion from him. Ive even gone a step further and willingly acknowledged my own faults in the hope that he would do the same. You really shouldnt have to do this in order to have a conversation.

Instead of tiptoeing, accepting blame , why not name it ? Why not say " you are emotionally abusing me, either stop right now, or i will divorce you ". This is the start of you changing who you are, watching what you say , modifying your behaviour.It is, as someone else says, very damaging for you.

What would you REALLY like to say to him op ? Perhaps really think about that and imagine the reaction you would get if you said it . You should be able to freely express yourself, yet you are not permitted to do so. That is very worrying.

YallaYalla

Personally I would not live with this type of maladjusted man but then I am not you. Also you learnt a lot from your Dad too and there are things re him that need to be addressed there as well.

You are not there to fix your H and ultimately you are not responsible for his childhood and issues stemming from these. If he chooses not to address it then there is nothing you can do or say to change his mind.

What if he shouts a loud and clear NO to you re counselling?. Would you consider counselling on your own?. For the reasons I already stated earlier I think he will never willingly go to counselling either on his own or with you. He will stonewall you and lay on the ol' silent treatment again. It is so sadly predictable.

Why do you have to think this can be fixed?.
To me that sounds like a triumph of hope over experience. I would ask what has fundamentally changed re his attitude to think this can be fixed, there has been no movement on his part to actually want to address the problems.

You still have a choice re him at the end of the day and you don't have to live with his impetious moodswings which only underline further his refusal to take any responsibility.

I think this all of this is more about power and control rather than just conflict resolution.

Although it is admirable of your friend not to take sides or label behaviours she still does not know the full ins and outs unlike yourself because you are caught up in this situation. It is hard to see the wood for the trees when you are in the midst of this and you have been given much to think over.

Sorry op, i seem to keep battering you with posts, i know youve a lot to take in, but just wanted to say , you said you gave him a long explanation the other night about how upsetting you find his behaviour, how much it hurts you ect. How many times, honestly, have you explained this to him ?

Unless he has a learning disability, he understands perfectly how hes making you feel, because youve told him. Lots of times.Clearly he does understand because he doesnt do it to others.
He rolled his eyes at you, and decided that your time for talking was up. He also told you that youd just have to deal with it. After the incidant he behaved like nothing had happened. I dont hold out much hope for your next conversation.

If youve got a few days without him, a good search of the internet and ordering a few books might be usefull. The ones i mentioned are just a few quid on amazon.

When my nurse practioner first told me what was happening, I made sure that I saw someone else at the surgery for a few months.....I did not want to hear what she was telling me.

I read Lundy Bancroft and threw it away, for fear my h would find it. And although I knew that they were right, and having spoken Women's aid as well, it took him starting to frighten my dc's, for me to accept my reality.

It is very, very, very hard to hear.

It is pretty. Rather than accept what was happening i started to blame myself, he blamed me too and i accepted it , ie Perhaps its me, i dont communicate clearly / im too demanding / talk too much / too sensitive ect.

I used to describe him as 95 per cent ok, there was just this 5 per ceny communication thing, and if we could just resolve that, everything would be ok. It was only after i came away, a complete shadow of my former self , that i saw it was much more than that.
Waffling again !

Thanks again. These posts are so helpful.

AnnieGetYourGun - I know what you mean by the 'look'. It doesn't happen often, but I can identify it a mile off. An example - years ago my friend had a christening for her first baby. It was in a church. I'm not big into churches and neither is DH. I told him he'd been invited, did he want to go? He didn't seem that keen, but agreed to come. I didn't pressure him at all. He had a face like a slapped arse all day long. Playing with his mobile during the whole service. Grumpy at the after service do. One of friends even told him to 'cheer up'. Basically HE hadn't wanted to go to the church or the christening. But instead of saying no he decided to act like that. Whenever we are invited to churches now (only happened once since!) I say - it's a church - if you come, come nicely, or don't bother coming at all. He's behaved so far.

Thanks for your post - good to hear other's experiences. I think the mistake I've made has been not to go apeshit - normally by the time the moods are over I am so relieved they are over I do not want to scrape over the original reason for the argument (usually tiny insignificant things anyway) at the risk of causing another row or risking yet another sulk. So I kind of brush them under the carpet and get on with it. I realise this is not healthy.

Dignified - let me google your suggestions and see what comes up on emotional abuse. For some reason I have a real problem with the word 'abuse'. It just seems too extreme.

The reason (and no, you don't need to button it! your questions are helpful) I would label it as 'our' communication problem is exactly as you suggest. If I accuse him of poor behaviour I think he would be scared off, and perhaps refuse counselling. I need to present it as a joint problem to get him to the table.

I don't think I can label it to him as his being an 'emotional abuser' as you suggest - I have not made this leap yet and I can't therefore possibly present it to him as such. Also surely that's something for a counsellor to address/diagnose, not me? I guess what I'm hoping is that if I can get him to the table, he will see or realise what he is doing, and change.

What would I really like to say to him? Good question. I would say this behaviour is unacceptable, that it's childish and unattractive, that it makes me doubt our future together and how I can see us repeating all the same mistakes our parents made. And that he is behaving - when he does this specific behaviour - like an absolute f*cking asshole and I don't deserve it.

But - something - god knows what - stops me. I think it's the possibility that I might push him away, make him leave me, and that if this is to be the case, I need to get my head into the right place first.

Attila - I think he has to agree to counselling. If he refuses that, for me, will be a big red flag. A huge warning sign. And I think, at that stage, I will know I have something awfully serious on my hands. At this stage I'm clinging to the hope that a counsellor can 'make him see the light'.

dignified - in response to your final question, never. Last night was the first time I ever laid out how this makes me feel. I have never ever done so before so clearly. Recently I have made a few remarks, but last night would in all honestly have been the first time he ever received the 'this is killing me and it can't go on message'. I have either been unable or unwilling to confront this before. I guess hoping things will blow over. And once we are talking again, things are so good .

For me this is now all about whether he will accept counselling.