What Would You Do?

[YallaYalla]

Hi,

Looking for a bit of advice please. I am slowly working out that DH has some major issues with passive aggressive behaviour. We've just come back from a week-long holiday and he is no longer talking to me because of a row we had on the last day. He has gone into emotional shutdown and as usual I am paying the price.

In brief: I wanted to do something (buy a souvenir on our last night) which he didn't want to do; I could tell he wasn't keen and offered to leave him in the bar we were having sundowners in while I nipped up to the shop; he didn't take me up on this offer, and also did not say he didn't want to do it when I asked him in a friendly way about it.

So we leave bar and walk to shop buy souvenir, him seemingly in an ok mood. On leaving shop he gets into a major strop because he was very sweaty and hot from the walk (tropics) and within a space of about 5 minutes shuts down totally.

Doesn't want to do anything, goes mute, won't respond to queries of if he's ok, my offers to go and stand in areas where there is AC, queries about which bar he would like to go to next and where we should have dinner on our last night.

Eventually he says he's had enough and wants to go back to the hotel and do nothing/watch TV. It's 8pm, it's the last night of our holiday and we're both dolled up for a good night out.

I'm pretty pissed off, but use my usual tactics for snapping him out of these moods - cuddling him, ignoring his mood, teasing him gently, trying to take charge in a non-confrontational way. It worked for a bit, and then I got a bit exhausted by the whole effort and said, fine, let's go back to the hotel. We are waiting in a taxi queue and I say I'm just popping into this shop to use the loo.

He claims he thought I said 'see you back at the hotel'. I though I'd made it fairly clear I was just nipping to the loo but it's possible he didn't hear me as we were about 10 metres away from each other. Anyway, point is, I return from the loo and he's vanished.

He KNOWS I have no money in my pocket whatsoever (he always carries the cash on nights out on holiday) and no mobile phone which I've left in the hotel safe. So he's dumped me in the middle of a capital city in Asia. Admittedly, it's a safe city, it's not late, I know the way back to the hotel 20 minutes away, and we're in a really touristy area. But it's the principle of just being dumped like that without even money for a taxi. I'm furious. Walk back to hotel room.

Half an hour later he shows up. I am fuming. Not proud of what happens next but I use the security chain to stop him getting access to the hotel room. I tell him he's not coming in as he dumped me in a foreign city with no resources. He asks again to be let in. I say no and slam the door shut.

Eventually, at 2am, he tries the door again. This time I've softened and feel pretty bad for locking him out of the room (even though HE had his wallet and credit cards and finances mean he could easily booked himself another room in the same hotel for the night). I let him in, he walks in in silence and hasn't spoken to me since.

We flew home in silence and he sat separately to me from the plane. Now we are home and he's still in the silent treatment mode, sleeping on the sofa. Total emotional frigging shutdown.

Now. I KNOW I was unreasonable to prevent him access to the hotel room for a few hours. I haven't apologised yet either (he's stonewalling me and I don't see what value it would have at this time). But, as usual, it's me who looks the nutter.

He could not express feelings on us going to the shop. He 'punishes' me for taking us there by shutting down emotionally, and then abandoning me on the last night of our holiday in a foreign city with no bloody money in my pocket. I shut him out of the hotel room but in no way compromised his safety (for all I know he spent the intervening hours in the hotel lobby bar knocking back single malts). And, as usual, I am sitting here tearing my hair out, trying to find a way to get him to open up and being given the silent treatment.

I've spent some time on the internet this morning looking at PA behaviour. I'm sure he doesn't have the PA personality disorder as generally he is a very good, loving, honest man who holds down a very stressful and highly-paid job and - this issue aside - our marriage is strong and we have a good relationship. But I just can't BEAR this passive aggressive shit.

What am I supposed to do?
Any tips for how I can make myself feel better while his mood subsides?
Any tips for how I can snap him out of it?
Should I apologise for locking him out of the room?

Sorry - this is an essay - just feel like I'm going mad here. Thanks if you got this far.

Thanks for your perspective dignified

I'm not sure about the gaslighting comparison but there is a lot of what I would call passive aggressive stuff - expecting/demanding I make decisions about where to eat for example, and then sulking when, having expressed no opinion about where to eat, if he doesn't like where we end up. About silly little things like this he often expects me to make a decision.

But I agree it does feel abusive - I feel thoroughly miserable and sat here in tears this morning. He doesn't seem at all upset - just cold, like a frigging stone.

There was no ulterior motive for him having all the money on holiday - we tend to just take cash out and leave all cards in hotel - he carries it coz he has pockets and I don't! We have very equal access to money, he earns far more than me but I have access to all bank statements, any money I want and he never questions what I spend money on. He is not controlling in that respect, in fact extremely generous and open. He often tells me to go treat myself and I can spend on his card freely whatever I like.

Honestly, he is 99% of the time good and loving. We have an equal partnership, respect for each other, consult each other before big decisions. Laugh together.

But this issue - gaslighting/control/passive aggression call it what you will - keeps rearing its head. The big stuff - life decisions, money decisions - we can deal with. But somehow these petty little issues blow up.

Feeling confused . As you say dignified, he doesn't act like this with others - it's reserved just for me.

Children would not help in this situation for a number of reasons. For a start how much support are you going to get from someone who feels he has a right to sulk at you because youve dared to unwittingly upset him ? Or because he wants attention ? Sorry he sounds like an emotional parasite.

Then theres the other issue . A child who grows up watching and learning this behaviour will adopt it as a way to control and abuse others, just like your DP has,,

Or
A child who grows up watching this behaviour will learn its ok to accept this behaviour from a partner, like YOU have.

Really op, replace your H with a female freind, would you really be freinds with someone who sulked at you like this and give you the silent treatment ?

Sweetheart, it's not little. It's your happiness. that isn't small.

Women, and it so often is women, put up with this sort of stuff because we do not value our happiness highly enough.

Happiness=how comfortable you feel living your life.

It turns your life into a pair of shoes that hurt you.

'Tis no way to live.

And print out this thread and bring it to any counselling session - because it is very, very hard to communicate what is going on to a third-party. Even a trained counsellor.

The reason he expects you to just know what he wants and how he is feeling is affressed beautifully in in Patricia Evans, "controlling people". There are free sample pages on Amazon. Google Patricia Evans dream woman, and you will find out what has happened.

You only exist as a repository for his split off emotions, and when you deviate from this, ie, be you, he will feel threatened and behave badly, sometimes shouting and violence, or in your case, sulking. The bad news is that it only ever gets worse if they don't seek help. And because they won't take responsibility, they rarely seek help.

From what you've said, he is aware that he does the sulking and blanking, so maybe for you there is hope.

It is HIS problem. You are merely reacting to it. Your problem is that you already have this behaviour as a template for relationships, from your own childhood. That's the bit YOU can do something about.

I think that's exactly what happened dignified.

He learned this behaviour from his mother. I have seen it in action with her and they are frighteningly similar. It's like a switch goes off and then they shut down. There is no letting anybody in.

DH's father copes by pandering to his mum. DH has always resented his father for not having a backbone over this issue. I wonder if that is perhaps how he views me when I try to open him up?

Or maybe I'm just overanalysing everything...

But - yes - I wouldn't want a child to copy this behaviour. It is childish and unnecessary. I wouldn't hang around long if a female friend was doing this.

I guess what I'm struggling with is WHY? What is he trying to achieve? Is it just a sign that he's a bit emotionally crippled? In many ways he is a great analyser, a great person to talk through problems with and very insightful. But he can't seem to see that this behaviour hurts me.

Or, he can but doesn't care.

I feel so confused as this issue aside - and I must stress, it's not a regular thing - he regularly supports and shows love for me.

Thanks for all the replies, it's so helpful to finally talk to someone about this.

The reason it's only reserved for you is because he has planted hie split off stuff into you, because you are now an extension of him. YOU have effectively ceased to exist. I bet you feel invisible sometimes, like you are fading away into oblivion. Do you wonder what happened to the real you ever? Do you miss who you used to be?

I hate to say it, but isolating their partnersfrom their support systems is another favourite trick.

I have never thought of him as controlling before.

I thought this was just the usual run-of-the-mill male sulk.

But the responses on here suggest maybe it's not.

Thanks for your input prettylegs but I think the analogy of feeling invisible is a step too far.

I feel I have plenty of my own say/control in this relationship and am an empowered woman with a opinion of my own and my own career/interests. I feel like some are going down the 'battered woman' route and that is so, so far from the real situation. Please trust me enough to know that at least.

What I will accept is that this pattern of silent treatment/sulking has got to stop, and that together we will have to take steps to address it as I can see it is causing me unhappiness.

YallaYalla - I do think you have time to nip this in the bud. People are flexible, they have the capacity to learn to ride bikes, and fly planes, and learn maths, and all sorts.

But I would say:

Get on the case now.

Value your happiness.

Yalla you sound lovely.

I grew up with a mother who did this to me. Sometimes I would go to school and everything would be fine...
Then I would come home to find she wasn't speaking to me.
Not a word. Nothing.
When I would work up the courage to ask her what was wrong, she would just scowl at me.

My chest hurts just thinking about it now...

It would usually last two weeks. Total silence, or just quietly spoken words.

It is awful behaviour that makes you totally unsettled, and puts you on 'high alert'. You're living with one ear to the ground always 'listening' for trouble... and you have to adapt your likes/dislikes to theirs.

It's good that you still went to buy the souvenir you wanted even though he 'disapproved'. I'm wondering how long it will be before you think 'oh I just won't do xyz to keep the peace'.

Obviously though noone knows all about your relationship, and can only comment on what you have told us here.
If your relationship is otherwise good, then I agree that counselling would be good.

But you have my sympathy - being responsible for someone else's emotions is awful.
You are being blamed for something that is not under your control.
Only he can control his moods.

thanks animula, your comments have really helped me

This thread has given me the motivation to try to tackle these issues, rather than just wait until the next breakdown of communication.

And to recognise that they need to be tackled in order to be happy down the line.

If someone left me in the middle of nowhere with no keys, money etc I'd expect

a) a bloody good reason (and churlishness doesn't count.)

b) a HUGE apology.

We've all done things we regret but I wouldn't even abandon a dog somewhere strange for goodness' sake, let alone my DP!

You seem to be "walking on eggshells" around this guy? You are doing your best to find an opening...give him a chance...

I'm not sure why you've had to develop "tactics" to try to jolly him out of his behaviour? Presumably he does this a lot?

Petulance isn't endearing in a child...but is incredibly selfish and churlish in a grown man.

I'm afraid he does not come across as loving & giving...he sounds manipulative and selfish. You can't wave a magic wand and stop him being like this - but you can stop him from doing it to you... ...
... or you can decide you love him and his other qualities enough that he is worth the effort you are putting into this relationship....in which case grow a thick skin...take an ipod/ good book for his sulky moments and always carry your own cash & keys!

You ask WWYD. What I would do is leave him because you cannot base a life with children on this type of treatment. How would you explain to your child why daddy had gone mute all of a sudden? how embarrassing to have to explain to a 5yr old that daddy was in a sulk for three days.

But you are not prepared to leave him. So you have to find a way of taking back the control that he has so successfully wrested from you.

He only does it , like his mother, because it works. If it didn't achieve the desired result he would "learn" not to do it, if he wanted to keep you.

you attempts to gee him up and knock him out of it are what he wants - he is controlling you, he can see that you are being punished and he can keep it up for as long as he wants. It's a horrible way to treat another person.

If I were you I would go and visit my friend and I would not contact him at all until he contacted you. Then I would say that I felt seriously concerned that you cannot have children with him because of his ridiculously embarrassing behaviour on the holiday because you cannot, in all conscience, expose a child to that type of nonsense.

Then refuse to come back until he undertakes some intensive counselling. If he refuses he does not love you enough to modify his unreasonable behaviour and you cannot have a child with him becasue you will be posting on here in a few years time saying how you can't bear it any longer but you cannot take your child away from his daddy who is so lovely some of the time.

Again condensedmilk a really helpful post. Thank you. And thanks for saying I sound lovely! That's really cheered me up

Interesting about your experience with your mother. I have never really delved into how DH's mother's moods may have affected him growing up. I know it was an issue but perhaps it is worth exploring how that might be affecting his own relationships as an adult.

Has your mother's behaviour had any impact in your adult world if you don't mind me asking? Do you battle against repeating that behaviour? With DH, it's like he knows how awful it is but just can't stop it.

My own childhood taught me how awful that behaviour is and how anything is better than that, hence why I really wear my heart on my sleeve now and love to tackle things head on and up front.

With regards to going on to buy the souvenir anyway, I always do that. I never try to modify my behaviour, although sometimes I feel like I have to work on modifying his reaction to it. But I will not be cowed into pleasing him, as it were. I make my own decisions, in all aspects of life, and he knows that and respects me for it.

Thanks also for recognising that I am, or feel I am, a good judge of our relationship. I am absolutely not a controlled or abused woman. But there is controlling behaviour being displayed. And I have to tackle that - or at least ask DH to.

Kailie that's how I feel. The reason I locked him out of the hotel room in anger is because I would never abandon anyone like that. I know if it was another female friend or his sister he would never have done that.

He did a similar thing once - years ago - abandoned me in central london, pissed, at 3am. I actually was almost attacked by a group of men and was lucky to escape. He did apologise profusely that time though, and he was incredibly drunk at the time.

He was sober this time though. But I still don't expect an apology will be forthcoming as he claims he misunderstood my message about needing the loo.

Mrsboogie - harsh to hear but thanks for the post.

Yes it would be embarrassing having to explain this behaviour to a child. But I grew up watching my dad do it. My mother had to navigate around his occasional sulks. They could go on for days. So I don't want to have to do the same for a child of mine.

I am a bit shocked that you feel I should take such urgent steps though.

Really - I was just posting for a bit of relationship advice and now I feel I've opened a can of worms

Yalla - your last post is really sobering.

If I were you - I'd sit down with him and tell him how unacceptable his behaviour is and see what he says?

If he knows he has a problem then perhaps you can overcome it but if he doesn't see he has a problem, well I'd be leaving and certainly not getting children involved.

Sorry

My DH was like this sometimes and his mother was ALWAYS this way. Funny thing is from the day she died DH has never done it again, has lightened up in all areas of his life, is very seldom moody or 'down'. Even when he is, he 'lets me in' to cheer him up or make him see sense. He says he is able to be himself now without having to consider what his mother would think.

Good luck in however you try to tackle it
I agree with the others about pstponing ttc
having kids magnifies these issues by a hundred sadly
you need to resolve them now if you can

All I can think to say is you both need to grow up and say sorry.

I guess there is something else I should ask about ttc.

We discussed ttc before marriage - he was open and said that he was ambivalent about kids, that if I decided I wanted them he would have them with me, but that taking the plunge to have kids would be a decision he could never make.

I felt that was fair enough - he 'made' the decision about marriage (i.e. I never ever pushed him or asked him to, waited until he asked me as I always felt I never wanted to cajole someone into marrying me!). So we were both fully on the same page before our marriage 3 years ago.

During our honeymoon he did a complete U turn - declared he wanted kids straight away, it was what life is all about, I should come off the pill etc. I got cold feet - so shocked at his sudden turn around I think! - and basically talked him out of it during our honeymoon. I didn't feel quite ready.

Now I am getting on a bit and am realising I should have kids in the next couple of years or risk fertility issues. He is sticking to his line of 'I don't know and can't say yes or no'. But I know from what he said on the issue that he is not super keen.

I have been making some initial enquiries, having some blood tests done, we even had to postpone this famous holiday a bit for some tests. He has supported me through this although is still adamant he can't decide if he actually WANTS kids, but that if we do have them on my behest he will step up to the plate.

I guess what I'm asking is whether this could come back to bite me on the butt? A tiny part of me thinks that he could always say 'But it was YOU who wanted kids, I never wanted this' every time things get difficult. I guess I'm asking if this pattern of behaviour means he could play his passive aggressive card and claim I somehow 'forced' him into this. And therefore that he can act like a twat.

I should add that I am not 100% sure about kids either - I have really agonised over the decision and over the past couple of years can hear my clock ticking more loudly. This is why I haven't pushed the issue.

Fab - how could I have handled this differently? (other than not locking him out, of course!). I genuinely would like to know.

Op sorry you feel like youve opened a can of worms , i know you feel some of the posts saying leave are extreme, but thats because these behaviours are controlling and abusive.

You say your not controlled, that he respects you.Yet you also state he doesnt do this to anyone else, and on holiday he certainly was controlling to you. Fair enough hes not doing it in the way off " make my tea woman " , but he IS controlling your emotions , hes making you feel shit, ie , pamper to me and give me attention or youll pay. And you do pay dont you.

the following statement concerns me "But he can't seem to see that this behaviour hurts me.". Really ? Youve stated youve told him repeatedly , yet he continues ? How come he can see it would hurt his boss or his male freinds, but not you ?

Id issue an ultimatum, either it stops or your gone. The reason your being told to leave is because often for every controlling behaviour you recognise theres usually 10 others you dont spot, and it often escalates over time. He is clearly capable of being very controlling and its unlikeley he is only being controlling in the situations you describe. Hes probably doing it in other ways too that your not aware of.

The word controlling conjours up images of an angry man dictating if his wife can go out or what she can wear. But it can be subtle and hard to spot. When you are upset for days and find yourself feeling somebody elses feelings something is seriously wrong.

How old are you? I'm guessing 33 if you are thinking inna couple of yrs you might have fertility issues?

spot on, compo!

Hi Yalla.

Yes I do think it has affected my behaviour as an adult.
It is something I am aware of though, and have actively tried to combat it (kind of like you are doing now )

I think I am the opposite of your DH. If someone (anyone) is angry with me, I go into eager-to-please puppy mode. I can't stand it if I think someone is mad with me.
It is a real struggle for me to shrug and say 'oh well' as I see other people do...
I frequently have to remind myself that sometimes anger is justified. And normal.

I think it is harder for me, and your DH to 'fight fair' because we have no experience of how to!
Not excusing his behaviour though - just saying that normal relationships don't have the whole 'you are responsible for my happiness' element attached.

Also, I am very careful not to do it with DCs. I am a big apologiser. My mum never apologised for anything...

What I am saying is, it takes an active effort not to repeat the cycle.