What Would You Do?

[YallaYalla]

Hi,

Looking for a bit of advice please. I am slowly working out that DH has some major issues with passive aggressive behaviour. We've just come back from a week-long holiday and he is no longer talking to me because of a row we had on the last day. He has gone into emotional shutdown and as usual I am paying the price.

In brief: I wanted to do something (buy a souvenir on our last night) which he didn't want to do; I could tell he wasn't keen and offered to leave him in the bar we were having sundowners in while I nipped up to the shop; he didn't take me up on this offer, and also did not say he didn't want to do it when I asked him in a friendly way about it.

So we leave bar and walk to shop buy souvenir, him seemingly in an ok mood. On leaving shop he gets into a major strop because he was very sweaty and hot from the walk (tropics) and within a space of about 5 minutes shuts down totally.

Doesn't want to do anything, goes mute, won't respond to queries of if he's ok, my offers to go and stand in areas where there is AC, queries about which bar he would like to go to next and where we should have dinner on our last night.

Eventually he says he's had enough and wants to go back to the hotel and do nothing/watch TV. It's 8pm, it's the last night of our holiday and we're both dolled up for a good night out.

I'm pretty pissed off, but use my usual tactics for snapping him out of these moods - cuddling him, ignoring his mood, teasing him gently, trying to take charge in a non-confrontational way. It worked for a bit, and then I got a bit exhausted by the whole effort and said, fine, let's go back to the hotel. We are waiting in a taxi queue and I say I'm just popping into this shop to use the loo.

He claims he thought I said 'see you back at the hotel'. I though I'd made it fairly clear I was just nipping to the loo but it's possible he didn't hear me as we were about 10 metres away from each other. Anyway, point is, I return from the loo and he's vanished.

He KNOWS I have no money in my pocket whatsoever (he always carries the cash on nights out on holiday) and no mobile phone which I've left in the hotel safe. So he's dumped me in the middle of a capital city in Asia. Admittedly, it's a safe city, it's not late, I know the way back to the hotel 20 minutes away, and we're in a really touristy area. But it's the principle of just being dumped like that without even money for a taxi. I'm furious. Walk back to hotel room.

Half an hour later he shows up. I am fuming. Not proud of what happens next but I use the security chain to stop him getting access to the hotel room. I tell him he's not coming in as he dumped me in a foreign city with no resources. He asks again to be let in. I say no and slam the door shut.

Eventually, at 2am, he tries the door again. This time I've softened and feel pretty bad for locking him out of the room (even though HE had his wallet and credit cards and finances mean he could easily booked himself another room in the same hotel for the night). I let him in, he walks in in silence and hasn't spoken to me since.

We flew home in silence and he sat separately to me from the plane. Now we are home and he's still in the silent treatment mode, sleeping on the sofa. Total emotional frigging shutdown.

Now. I KNOW I was unreasonable to prevent him access to the hotel room for a few hours. I haven't apologised yet either (he's stonewalling me and I don't see what value it would have at this time). But, as usual, it's me who looks the nutter.

He could not express feelings on us going to the shop. He 'punishes' me for taking us there by shutting down emotionally, and then abandoning me on the last night of our holiday in a foreign city with no bloody money in my pocket. I shut him out of the hotel room but in no way compromised his safety (for all I know he spent the intervening hours in the hotel lobby bar knocking back single malts). And, as usual, I am sitting here tearing my hair out, trying to find a way to get him to open up and being given the silent treatment.

I've spent some time on the internet this morning looking at PA behaviour. I'm sure he doesn't have the PA personality disorder as generally he is a very good, loving, honest man who holds down a very stressful and highly-paid job and - this issue aside - our marriage is strong and we have a good relationship. But I just can't BEAR this passive aggressive shit.

What am I supposed to do?
Any tips for how I can make myself feel better while his mood subsides?
Any tips for how I can snap him out of it?
Should I apologise for locking him out of the room?

Sorry - this is an essay - just feel like I'm going mad here. Thanks if you got this far.

And please contact Women's Aid

Your thread title is What Would You Do?

I would leave.

Nothing will change unless you do.

He is controlling you. It is only a small step from threatening violence to actually hitting you.

its getting creepy what he's saying to you-wea re not splitting up' etc... please consider a trial seperation

Maths - trial separation is only possible if I leave him (and that would mean flying half way round the world as we live overseas). It is doable - and I'm conscious it might come to this - but vastly more complicated and ugly than if we both just lived in the UK and I could pack him off to a mate's house.

Madame - Women'sAid can't help me, overseas. No way to withhold a number from here and also it would appear on our bill. But I could certainly follow their guidelines.

What I'm struggling with is WHY has this become so bad?

It really - and I know it won't seem like this to others - has come out of the blue. And at such speed. So bad so quickly.

It's overwhelming.

It's devastating.

You are starting to sound like you are trying to fix him. You can't.

You ask why things have gone so badly so quickly...my guess is because you have challenged the status quo. He was very comfortable wasn't he? Pretty much getting his own way all the time, and sulking when he didn't - which always got him LOTS of attention and his own way.

I'm so sorry Yalla, but this sounds downright dangerous to me.

Threats of violence, subtle threats about you leaving, his weird timetable of when he's going to talk to you (can you see his desperate attempts to control the situation in this?) The bit about looking "sexy" after crying made me actually shudder.

Good Lord, have you somewhere to go? Because this is seriously NOT GOOD.

Fab - that's what I'm worried about. Actually, on domestic violence websites it says 'threatening to hit someone' is as bad as actually doing it.

I guess what is still going round in my mind is (like the bowl-throwing / laptop incident), is that he will say it is because I was aggressive first. And it's true.

Because I smacked his arm. A couple of times. While I screamed 'fuck off' at him. I mean, that's bad behaviour too, isn't it?

Roo - yes, it does feel a bit creepy.

YallaYalla,

You've tried talking on neutral territory and it was a disaster. What d'you think he'd be like in the home and what has really changed?. He'd be in all likelihood worse towards you.

I think you're now seeing his true nature tbh. This is what he is really like beneath the veneer of respectibility he cultivates. Its all an act and you're copping all his abusive nature.

Am sure as well that his mother also cultivates a level of respectibility. These people are very plausible to the outside world.

He saw his Mother abuse his Dad verbally when growing up; he like you learnt a lot of damaging lessons from parents. Lessons that will not be easily unlearnt; he is many years work for a therapist even if he got into therapy. As his wife too, you are the last person who can help him.

You saw your Dad abuse your Mum verbally when growing up and you've subconsciously picked a man who is like your Dad. He in turn saw his Mother treating his Dad like something she stepped in. Where do you think we learn about relationships first and foremost from?.

I don't think either he will ever accept he has an issue here; it is always your fault in his eyes.

You I think become physically aggressive out of sheer frustration because he is not listening to your message. I think he is incapable of hearing any such message.

He has threatened you with violence and the next time he could well throw that punch.
You may want to talk to Womens Aid as well as this counsellor you are seeing. When is your next session btw?.

Leave now whilst you still can, I never say that lightly. If you choose to stay he will continue to destroy you emotionally.

I would not even be considering a trial separation now, I'd be looking to get out of the marriage completely. I never write that lighly either.

oh shit x posted.

Um, please just come home. Tell someone and come home (I am presuming you are from the UK)

Can you google "Womens support/shelters in (your area)" or similar?

Fab - I know I shouldn't be trying to fix him. I know it's HIS problem. But I guess I just feel surprised things have degenerated so quickly and think there must be a reason.

So confusing.

WombFroot - yes, I can see it's all about control. I can see he is doing this because, for the first time, I'm really challenging the status quo. But it's just totally shocking to me that he has got SO bad so quickly. It just feels unreal. Truly.

Please stop justifying that what he has done is ok.

I once slapped my husband and he hit me back. I was well pissed off but why should I hit him in the first place. We were both in the wrong.

Your husband is trying to control you, he is bullying and scaring you and unless you want this to get worse, you have to leave.

I lived with someone and was engaged.

He hit me, really badly. I can't remember why. I apologised to him later. Was scared of him. It came out of nowhere. He was well pissed off when he discovered I had made secret plans to leave. Best thing I ever did. The next bloke hit me too. I was gone.

I know it can be shocking when it comes out o nowhere but what he is doing is also a slow build up to much worse imo.

It's real darling. It is real and now that you know that he is capable of these things, you really can't stay.

I know it's scary. But you can't stay. You are treading a very fine line here and at any moment you may slip and things will get worse.

Come home.

A trial separation would be unlikely to work as he has no real intention of accepting any responsibility for the problems within your marriage.

I would pack your bags as soon as humanely possible and return to the UK without him.

Ok, so you're in shock and still trying to find a logical reason for his behaviour.
Sorry but there isn't one.
His behaviour cannot be rationalised or explained, or only in terms of "He is unstable" and "He is dangerous"
So please try to move on from that, because its wasted energy, and start thinking about yourself.
It's happened. No going back now.

Attila - thank you for your wise and detailed post. Yes, a therapist would have a field day with him. Yes, we are both copying childhood patterns. Yes, I can't fix him. Yes, his whole attitude about all of this (even me asking him to 'talk' about our problems) is done with a 'this is my wife's problem and not mine' attitude.

I know this is RIDICULOUS for a grown woman to have to ask this, but it IS bad for a man to say that to his wife, isn't it?

I mean. I didn't feel physically threatened because when he said it, he was lying on the sofa curled up, so I knew he couldn't do it right there and then (and in fact I was so frustrated I think I screamed 'go on then you coward' or something at him). (shameful emoticon)

If he had been standing up, I think I would have been frightened and left the house.

Madame - can't contact women's shelter due to nature of where I live, so it's either into a hotel locally, or it's back to the UK.

MOVE OUT!!! in a planned and organised way for yourself.
Seriouly, your description of what he did tell you scared the hell out of me. I know you are not in the UK, so please take care of yourself.

YallaYalla,

You cannot fix this man, please do not even go down that particular route because it will delay your recovery from him and it will also get you precisely nowhere.

Maybe your Mum thought she could fix your Dad as well. My guess too is that she was not ultimately successful.

And as for why it has degenerated so quickly; it is because you are challenging the order within your marriage i.e he first and you always last. You are NOW seeing his true nature. However, abusers cannot keep the facade up forever and the cracks re his underlying abusive behaviour were showing long before this recent incident you recount.

You are not responsible for him, you did not make him this way. Stop feeling sorry for him as well, he does not feel any real shred of remorse over what happened recently.

Yalla Yalla,

I have just read through this thread for the first time (yes all of it and no, it wasn't a marathon) and first off I just want to say that you sound very intelligent and brave and you are absolutely doing the right thing in facing up to this.

My husband is the same but his sulks happen more regularly, for briefer periods of time. I have had moments of wondering if this is emotional abuse or not but never dared really look into it (like you, I feel the other 95% is good and don't want to lose it).

I saw a therapist for the first time this morning and realise that some of his questions were an evaluation of how abusive my situation might be. He said any solution will have to involve dh joining in so I will suggest that tonight - I expect he will agree as he seems equally dismayed by how things are, but I do wonder if there really is hope for sorting out a 'communication' problem like this. After reading this thread I am realising that seeing it as a communication issue does underplay the situation.

But my real point in posting is to say that I think it is very normal for you to see red, get so angry and even become physically agressive. When I read your last post it described the way some of our fights have gone - I end up howling on the floor while he stares into space - last time I even ripped up the clothes I was wearing. It makes me feel completely insane, as if we are living in parallell realities - dh has even called me a 'freak' with mental health issues. This has been the thing that's made me the most worried for our relationship - because I know I'm not a freak and if I have any mental health issues it'd most likely be depression from dealing with this. It is just so awful to feel you are out of control and then have it turned back on you in argument. I don't have any advice for you but you are really not alone in this, I am sure.

I don't know what to say but I hope you will find your way out ok (with or without him). I know how much it hurts and I really wish you well. Please just think of yourself and what you need to do - we have 2 small dc and it makes it so much harder to see what I actually want and need.

I hope some of those with good advice will be back for you soon.

It might seem hard to leave now, but it'd be a lot harder with children.

(Wouldn't be surprised if he realises this and suddenly gets a lot keener on starting a family than he was before.)

Reading your thread Yalla (didn't see it the first time) reminded me of two posters' experiences.

One was UnlikelyAmazonian, in whose first ever post I remember her saying that her husband would stonewall, leading her to scream and shout.

The other one was StercusAccidit (sp?) who had to walk home miles in the snow without keys, money or mobile, with her very newborn baby in a pram as her OH stropped off. I often wonder what happened to her in the end, she left around the time he started beating her up.

Sorry I know that is not helpful.

Feel for you x

I will give you a reason for why he does what he does.

Because he can.

Lots of x-posting going on.

I hear all your wise words.

For some reason I feel like I have to at least tell him how bad it is, and to demand immediate and critical change from him. Rather than just leave.

I realise this sounds deranged.

It sounds dangerous.

BS - I was thinking about SA just yesterday and wondering about her.

I do hope she's ok.