What Would You Do?

[YallaYalla]

Hi,

Looking for a bit of advice please. I am slowly working out that DH has some major issues with passive aggressive behaviour. We've just come back from a week-long holiday and he is no longer talking to me because of a row we had on the last day. He has gone into emotional shutdown and as usual I am paying the price.

In brief: I wanted to do something (buy a souvenir on our last night) which he didn't want to do; I could tell he wasn't keen and offered to leave him in the bar we were having sundowners in while I nipped up to the shop; he didn't take me up on this offer, and also did not say he didn't want to do it when I asked him in a friendly way about it.

So we leave bar and walk to shop buy souvenir, him seemingly in an ok mood. On leaving shop he gets into a major strop because he was very sweaty and hot from the walk (tropics) and within a space of about 5 minutes shuts down totally.

Doesn't want to do anything, goes mute, won't respond to queries of if he's ok, my offers to go and stand in areas where there is AC, queries about which bar he would like to go to next and where we should have dinner on our last night.

Eventually he says he's had enough and wants to go back to the hotel and do nothing/watch TV. It's 8pm, it's the last night of our holiday and we're both dolled up for a good night out.

I'm pretty pissed off, but use my usual tactics for snapping him out of these moods - cuddling him, ignoring his mood, teasing him gently, trying to take charge in a non-confrontational way. It worked for a bit, and then I got a bit exhausted by the whole effort and said, fine, let's go back to the hotel. We are waiting in a taxi queue and I say I'm just popping into this shop to use the loo.

He claims he thought I said 'see you back at the hotel'. I though I'd made it fairly clear I was just nipping to the loo but it's possible he didn't hear me as we were about 10 metres away from each other. Anyway, point is, I return from the loo and he's vanished.

He KNOWS I have no money in my pocket whatsoever (he always carries the cash on nights out on holiday) and no mobile phone which I've left in the hotel safe. So he's dumped me in the middle of a capital city in Asia. Admittedly, it's a safe city, it's not late, I know the way back to the hotel 20 minutes away, and we're in a really touristy area. But it's the principle of just being dumped like that without even money for a taxi. I'm furious. Walk back to hotel room.

Half an hour later he shows up. I am fuming. Not proud of what happens next but I use the security chain to stop him getting access to the hotel room. I tell him he's not coming in as he dumped me in a foreign city with no resources. He asks again to be let in. I say no and slam the door shut.

Eventually, at 2am, he tries the door again. This time I've softened and feel pretty bad for locking him out of the room (even though HE had his wallet and credit cards and finances mean he could easily booked himself another room in the same hotel for the night). I let him in, he walks in in silence and hasn't spoken to me since.

We flew home in silence and he sat separately to me from the plane. Now we are home and he's still in the silent treatment mode, sleeping on the sofa. Total emotional frigging shutdown.

Now. I KNOW I was unreasonable to prevent him access to the hotel room for a few hours. I haven't apologised yet either (he's stonewalling me and I don't see what value it would have at this time). But, as usual, it's me who looks the nutter.

He could not express feelings on us going to the shop. He 'punishes' me for taking us there by shutting down emotionally, and then abandoning me on the last night of our holiday in a foreign city with no bloody money in my pocket. I shut him out of the hotel room but in no way compromised his safety (for all I know he spent the intervening hours in the hotel lobby bar knocking back single malts). And, as usual, I am sitting here tearing my hair out, trying to find a way to get him to open up and being given the silent treatment.

I've spent some time on the internet this morning looking at PA behaviour. I'm sure he doesn't have the PA personality disorder as generally he is a very good, loving, honest man who holds down a very stressful and highly-paid job and - this issue aside - our marriage is strong and we have a good relationship. But I just can't BEAR this passive aggressive shit.

What am I supposed to do?
Any tips for how I can make myself feel better while his mood subsides?
Any tips for how I can snap him out of it?
Should I apologise for locking him out of the room?

Sorry - this is an essay - just feel like I'm going mad here. Thanks if you got this far.

No child deserves a father who isnt bothered whether there here or not, and yes, i certainly think it would bite you on the butt later on.

Im concerned about his reluctance to make decisions , even the small ones on holiday.This means that if something goes wrong its always your fault as you are the one who decided, it leaves him blameless.

Dont have kids with someone who doesnt want them op , apart from anything else your child will be subjected to similar treatment.

Thanks dignified and others for your input. It really is so valuable to have an independent sounding board.

Dignified - I hear what you are saying about the control issue. I still struggle to accept everything you are saying but I'm trying to take it on board. But, yes, at certain times I can see that I have to try and fit in around his moods or anticipate them and that's not right. It's hard because a) I consider myself a pretty hard woman who doesn't take any shit! and b) as I keep saying, we get on perfectly well 99% of the time and don't have these ridiculous issues

Condensed milk - interesting to hear your thoughts. I think it's common for negative/difficult behaviour we are exposed to in childhood to either be something we subconsciously copy, or go the other way and perhaps overboard in trying to avoid those behaviours. Thanks for sharing your experience.

DH's parents have a TOTALLY dysfunctional marriage - they cannot even look each other in the eye when they talk - and DH sometimes says he's scared about the future (scared that, like his mum did to his dad, that I would banish him to the spare room for decades of adult life). Whenever I push him on this passive/aggressive behaviour he says 'thank my mother for that that's where i learnt it from' or words to that effect. He also feels his father allowed his mother to totally walk all over him and he feels very strongly that he has to stand up for himself and not be a walkover.

Perhaps there is more going on here than I have recognised in terms of his childhood. Not trying to make excuses but need to consider WHERE this behaviour comes from.

God - it seems like I have a hell of a lot to tackle here.

BIL sounds very similar to your DH.

SIL has begun to notice how the dc's creep round and say 'mummy please don't make daddy sad' because in her words he'll then be in a mood/silent for days.

Not healthy for anyone.

Fab - did you read the whole thread? Yalla's DH abandoned her on one occasion in the middle of the night and she was nearly attacked. I really found that pretty shocking.

Yes, it's true.
But we can change those behaviours. It doesn't sound as though your DH is making much of an effort to be honest.

My DH and I had a conversation once where we discussed where we felt our parents went wrong - not in a woe-is-me kind of way, but in a we-have-to-monitor-this-for-our-children kind of way.

So if he sees me using guilt to get my way, he'll point out to me that I am doing.

And if I see him getting all socially phobic (like his Dad) I'll point it out to him.

Are you able to say to him 'you are behaving like your mother right now and it is hurting me. You know how that feels so you need to stop it' and then give him some space to snap out of it?

Honestly, I think pandering to him and jollying him along will make it worse in the long term. It is not your job, and it won't help him resolve this.

It's something he needs to acknowledge and TRY to change.

Totally agree with condensed.

Op, i see where you are going with the childhood thing, but really, its not for you to look at, its for him to look at, and it seems hes happy for now to simply use it as an excuse to continue to manipulate you.

To respond to your objections with " thank my mother " stink of someone unwilling to take responsibility for their own actions.

Theres usually other charecter deficits that go with a lack of personal responsibility, and controlling behaviour thats why everyones concerned.

Thanks again for all the advice.

I can see that we are going to have to have a serious talk tonight. Under normal circumstances I would just ignore him until he comes round, but now I feel that hang on, I shouldn't have to put up with this shit for days on end.

CondensedMilk - yes, I think I might try bringing up the mother issue. We have had the discussion about 'things our parents did that we want to avoid', but never really examined the way it's affecting our current behaviours. Perhaps if I can make him see that he is giving me the same treatment he endured from his mother that will have some effect.

I often try to talk him out of these silent periods but never get anywhere so give up. I think I will try the 'your behaviour is upsetting me and I'd like you to stop please' approach, rather than go straight in there all guns blazing demanding the behaviour stop. I would like to think we could about this like adults.

But past experience tells me he will only talk when HE is ready.... I will try to push tonight though.

dignified - X posted with you.

See your point. I shouldn't have to analyse HIS family unit in order to interpret how shitty he is being with me.

I will try to discuss this tonight. I will put it to him that this is behaviour HE needs to fix.

The advice has been so useful. Thanks all.

x

Good luck!

For what its worth my DH had a dreadful temper - not violent but very shouty. His previous partners and family just put up with it.

I wouldn't and don't and he knows this.

He also says this is a big part of why he's with me - he doesn't want to be that angry person. And with him it was definitely a case of repeating the behaviour of his father.

So he can stop it but he needs to want to.

Tracey - no I didn't, nothing about being attacked in the OP so apologies if I upset the OP with what I said but I still feel locking him out was wrong and so was him leaving her.

I would say that both of you were at fault here, or neither of you, depending on how you want to put it - you're both just acting in the ways that come naturally to you. You both did out of control row things!

Me and DH have had rows like this. It may sound blunt, but it is just a row. You disagreed about something, it got out of hand, I se it that this the side effect of sharing a life with someone. Unless you're both perfect.

I think couples often row because they don't get each other's way of dealing with things. Men often seem keen to shut down, the last thing they want to do is talk about it, they prefer to pretend it never happened. Women (or maybe it's just me?) want to pick at it, know why it happened, go over it, want to know what he thinks, want to talk, want an apology etc etc... The men I know just don't work that way. And if you act that way around them it makes them less likely to react the way you want, instead they clam up, and hate the situation (and you) all the more.

I think I understand my bloke better now and we fall out a lot less. It annoys me that he'll get upset and won't talk about it, or when he won't even tell me why he's upset with me sometimes... But rows are avoided if I accept this is how he is, and I have a better way of dealing with it now. I don't think trying to throw blame ever works. He's not going to think, "Ok, you're right." However much you want to get that out of him. Me and dh used to spend days not talking to each other, both thinking this way, rather than shrugging and moving on, and having a great day today.

Have you tried just acting like this never happened? This works when my dh goes into a mood like this. It completely throws him, I'll just say, "So shall we go Bluewater and get those new shoes for you?"

Usually he's happy to take the bait, take it as a sign that I want us to move on, and he wants that too.

Row over. Until the next time, but hey, no one's perfect.

I wouldn't start adding labels like 'passive agressive' myself, like it's a condition he can be cured of. That smacks of trying to change him. If you want to be with him I would say you have to accept that this is just his way.

The book that changed my thinking about relationships was: We Can Work It Out: How to Solve Conflicts, Save Your Marriage, and Strengthen Your Love for Each Other

It sounds frightfully self-helpy but I'd say we argue 90% less since I read this, and I understood why we were making things worse by not understanding we each had completely different ways of handling conflict.

Ooops, I went on a bit. I do wish you all the best with things. It sounds like that break may be good, a good time for you both to think.

I'm sorry if it came across harshly and I know it is easy for me to coldly analyse the situation without the softening affect of your nice lifestyle or his generosity and kindness when he is not being like this. But the fact remains that that is the reality of your situation, and I don't believe I said anything that you don't already know, as your indeed your own posts indicate.

You are surprised that I suggest taking action so urgently. Action needs to be taken does it not? unless you are prepared to put up with this for life. So why not now? why wait? that this situation will arise again is undoubted so why prolong the inevitable?

"But it was YOU who wanted kids, I never wanted this' every time things get difficult. I guess I'm asking if this pattern of behaviour means he could play his passive aggressive card and claim I somehow 'forced' him into this. And therefore that he can act like a twat."

Yes, he will do this. It will have been what YOU wanted therefore everything that goes wrong is your fault. He will give himself carte blanche to abdicate responsibility for the child and just walk away when things do not go his way - like he did leaving you in the street. He is deliberately keeping his wishes for against having chidren a secret from you because this gives him the power to manipulate every future situation. How awful is that? How deliberately manipulative?

I wouldn't mind betting this scenario is played out in a thousand other subtle ways in your relationship.

But your own posts make it clear that you know all this - maybe you hoped that people would be able to advise you of some clever way to egt him to stop his awful sulks - we can't, all we can tell you that the only thing you can change is how you react to it.

Please listen to your instincts about this man. You know the truth and you know what you should do.

TootingJo I have never wanted to erase a post more.

He left her alone, in a foreign country, with no money or means to get home.

That's more than just 'a row'.

I can't add anything to this, that hasn't already been said, but just wondered if any counselors ever post advise on here. OP I think is living overseas, and depending upon where that is, the 'local' counselors may not have the same views to life/situations as say 'western' counselors

I have read it now and would be interested how the "almost attacked" situation came about and how you got away from a "group of men."

OP i really feel for you. What you are describing is so similar to a 'relatioship' i had.
I know some posters don't like the 'leave him', but i'm going to say it : leave him. You don't even have children with him why should you deny yourself happiness? I've done it for 8 years! He spoilt every single holiday we had, every birthday and he sulked on every flight or car journey. Bloody tiring! I had 3dcs after i left him and often i have to fly alone with them and you know what it is a breeze! Give me babies and toddlers any time but not 'men' who sulk.

• This is not a loving or equal relationship-sorry. It is ok only because you are trying very hard and working around his moods. It shouldn't be like this. It is going to drag you down little by little and destroy your spirit, trust me.

• He will keep doing it because it works. He doesn't even have to use physical violence, his moods and silence treatment are keeping you in control, and he is within the law. Oh and he can blame his mum and blah blah.

• He needs to grow up.

• Do you ever allow yourself to be the one in bad mood? Hot, tired, stressed? Or you constantly accomodate his moods and trying to cheer him up? If so it will leave you very tired. And it will damage you if you suppress your own moods/emotions.

When i finally left the childish sulker i couldn't beleive how wonderful is to be myself in a relationship. And life is fun.

If you don't want to leave him for good then leave him for while. These people can only change if they loose what they 've got and face reality. As long as you are there he wont change-sorry to be so harsh.

As for counselling you could do that on your own. For YOURSELF. You 've got emotions too.

Fab the situation was this (I'm sensing some sarcasm in your post so here is "what happened")

Years ago, out for a huge piss up with friends. He was living in a dodgy part of london. All goes well - we have a great time with pals and leave the bar steaming drunk around 3am.

Something happens on the way home - I honestly can't recall what (and neither can he as we were both plastered) - but he snaps. Just snaps into a strop for no apparent reason and storms off into the night. Leaving me alone in a crappy part of london on New Years Eve. So no taxis. No public transport. I also have no phone and no money (having given him them to hold in the bar). So I have no option but to get back to his place.

I know the way back to his flat but it's a horrid walk - lots of dark allies, dodgy streets, some gang violence in the area. I am in tears, scared, but make it back to the bottom of the street where he lives.

As I am walking up the street, a gang of local 'youfs' come up a side alley. They see me, spot me, and come to a stop in a semi-circle in front of me. I feel like a trapped prey. Rabbit in headlights. Without a word they move to walk towards me, as a group, the intent in their eyes is very clear. They were out looking for 'fun' and I am to be their victim. I know I am in serious danger at this point. I KNOW I am about to be attacked - probably mugged and possibly raped.

JUST at this point - miraculous really - an elderly gentlemen happens to approach from another tiny side alley. He looks at me, in tears, sees the gang, clocks the situation instantly and says, loudly, 'I'm going to walk you home love'.

The gang know they cannot continue and shift off into the alleyway. Elderly man walks me to DP's door. At this very moment, DP, having got home and realised I have no money and no mobile phone as he has them, comes out his front door to look for me, realising he's seriously fucked up.

I was about to leave him over it. He apologised profusely - this happened years ago - and it has never happened again.

Op, i hope youve now got yourself a bag so you can hold onto your own belongings.

I haven't read the whole thread but thought I would give you my perspective 'from the other side'.

I sometimes behave like your dh - silly little things put me in a bad mood. I know they are silly so rather than behave like a spoilt brat (the way I see it) I shut up and try to lump it.

Dh 'senses' that I am not happy and (again the way I see it) starts harassing me about what is wrong. Nothing is really wrong, I'm just in a funk for no good reason and know it, so I say 'nothing'.

Dh won't let up and eventually I start to get really annoyed at his going on at me about what is wrong. I just need a bit of space to get over my mood. I know if I was just alone for a while I would snap out of it, but am unable to do it without some personal space, which dh is not giving me.

It used to always end up in a flaming row. Nowadays, after many many years of talking about it, we can (sometimes) keep calm and I can ask him more or less nicely for a bit of space, and he will not feel that I am doing it on purpose to hurt him.

But it's taken almost 20 years and many, many conversations to get to this point. And I know he still finds it difficult. I love him to bits, by the way, and am not trying to punish him. I just get a bit claustrophobic and need emotional space, so am trying to give that to myself.

No sarcasm but since you feel that way I won't bother explaining my reasoning behind the question.

Sorry Fab - I am struggling here because I am reeling from trying to take in what everyone is saying.

If I read you wrongly I apologise - I always value your thoughts on these types of threads and would appreciate your input

I just wonder why he walks off and leaves you? Does he want you to follow him, does he want to have the opportunity to come back and rescue you or is he in so much rage/anger that he really doesn't care and clearly hasn't thought about the consequences?

Also, how was he after your nightmare situation those few years ago?

To be honest Fab I haven't really worked it out. I get the feeling he wants me to follow him, and open a 'what have I done wrong' debate.

But when these incidents occur normally - as per both the incidents outlined - they come almost out of the blue, from almost no provocation from myself. It's a mixture I think of wanting me to follow him and him being so pissed off he perhaps doesn't care.

But I'm a stubborn goat and see this as pandering to him - so I normally let him storm off and cope on my own.

After that situation? Well, he was very sorry. I kept on asking him why he snapped, but he couldn't say why, however he did say "you must have said something to me to make me snap"

He apologised but - honestly - not as fully as I'd have liked him to.

We moved on and I have tried to forget it - water under the bridge and all that.

He is very adamant that if we ever return to live in the UK we would never return to that area because he would be worried about me walking home alone (oh the irony!). But he accepts it's a crappy place to live.

Haven't read much except your OP.

It reminded me very much of a couple I know who split around 15 yrs ago after it all got too much. Booze, rages, walking off and leaving, the lot, very similar to you. Was much more of a surprise to the couple than to the rest of us when they packed it in. They did a bit of symbolic Relate attendance as well, and had a 'let's stay together ' baby.

Sorry to be gloomy, I usually don't comment on this sort of thread. The good thing was the child who everyone thinks a lot of.