'But We Took You to Stately Homes' Part 2...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Grace....yoga! It's magic. Get a dvd and do it at home, as much or as little as you want. It has a magic spiritual effect too. And thank you for reminding me...I haven't done any for ages.

MH I wonder whether the inner child stuff would be beneficial for you too. We share a lot of invisibilty/doormat issues,

grace didn't see you post at the end of the last page before x

I think it is a good idea to have a break if that is what you feel you need, and if you need to go back later you can, wishing you well x

TIHIF, I hope that working on the inner child stuff works well for me as it is for you, I will bring it up with psychologist when I get to see one lol x

In the mean time, kids stuff over their dad, ongoing court finances, house sale etc to keep me chipping along, not to mention the dammed achillies tendonitis not healing very quickly and the second lot of antibiotics not making any differecne to abscess, think I may need to get it drained!

ok - I'm back after a fairly traumatic weekend. DH and I argued again primarily because I try to bottle everything up and then explode - generally in his direction.

I am still really struggling to accept that what happened to me when I was a child (between the ages of about 2and 9 yrs) is really child abuse. My mother hit me on a regular basis with either her fist or a leather shoe. I was regularly locked in a room and fed from the dogs bowl. She also was/is very psychologically abusive and even now is critical of me. I can honestly never remember her every saying well done or I'm proud. When I ask her about this she just says that I shouldnt need approval or proof and that I should "stop martyring myself" and get on with life.

Part of me thinks that maybe it was just me and that I have somehow dreamed this and it never happened but then reality kicks in and I remember that she really is a total bitch.

My problem now is dealing with the past. Apart from DH no-one knows and the rest of my family firmly have their heads in the sand. I am an only child so have no sibling support. I speak to my HV regularly as DS1 has problems with his ears and recurrent infections but how do I start a conversation...."btw I was abused as a child". who do I speak to in RL? Also why do I feel that telling someone neutral and not involved will somehow make me deal with it?

sorry for all the questions but for the 1st time in my life I am determined to face my demons instead of the running from them

btw love the title of this thread! I was dragged round many national trust properties as a child as it was Her idea of doing something for the day. I longed for the zoo, a theme park, even the beach but stately homes it was!

Hi, fledtoscotland I feel your intuition is correct, in that telling a neutral person will be helpful to you. It won't "make you deal with it" - that's your choice, to make as and when you decide. What it will do, however, is help you put what happened in its proper context. It's been hard, for each of us, to grasp that events in our childhoods really were abusive. You were the child whose parents told her it was normal, she deserved it, they had no choice, etc, etc. Of course it takes a huge effort to view it all with detachment - and of course, we need help.

I had the eating "like a dog" thing, too. Mad, isn't it? Before I started my 'process', I would have been wracked with sympathy for you ... but would have failed to connect your experience with my own. It's a big issue to get your head around.

You know, you could ask your HV's advice. Having been abused does impact on your parenting, so it has relevance to her/his professional interest. You can always start with a request for guidance; you can ask your GP too - they vary in their level of usefulness wrt to emotional issues, but you may as well cast your net!

Congratulations on starting to address it. I'm very sorry it happened to you.

Thanks IsGraceAvailable - - its weird and I dont really know what has made me face the past now. I'm also not sure why I feel my HV would be a good person to talk to over the GP. for some reason, I feel a GP would put it on my medical records which I'm not sure I'm ready for as it somehow makes it more "formal".

I have always thought my mother had a tenuous grip on reality but it was her 10mins argument with my answer phone last week that I think was the final straw . strange that something so small has made me realise that she really does have a problem.

Thanks again for your reply.

Hi FLed to scotland.

I totally know what you mean. Its as if we constantly search for evidence in the here and now, because I guess we were always so wrong as children.

It seems to me that your "explosions" are similar to mine. Sometimes I just go off like a bomb. I am in the very early stages, but now since Ex/p has moved out I feel less angry, more just sad and empty.

Ex/p came over last night and we went for a meal, it was really strange. We cuddled a bit but I found it really confusing. I just didnt know what he wanted. I know he was confused too. I wanted to talk, he wants to keep things light. He thinks if we have physical closeness then we will feel more connected and talking will be easier. I on the other hand just dont feel like that right now.

Its all such a muddle, I just wish I knew what to do.

love from a very confused 1foot

hi 1 foot, the meal sounds like it was confusing, when it was set up, who set it up and what did they communicate that the meal was going to be about? How could you organise a meeting that will make your ex aware of what you want in advance so that you have a better chance of achieving some sort of satisfaction from meeting him.

Hi fled, I was thinking about your problem with regards to discussing with hv, and I was thinking back to when my lo's were young. I am not sure if she is the right person for you to speak to about your past. I would think that speaking to your gp would be better as they would be who the hv would signpost you to, so the gp could organise counselling, if you involve the hv, she may raise flags re your parenting and get others involved and watch you and stress you out if you get what I mean!

Hi MH

Thanks for this. Me & Ex/p have been talking a bit on msn. He asked if he could come over as he needed something from the house. I asked what he wanted whether he wanted to go out/ see me or what, he said he would like to see me. I asked him what he was doing for food and he sugested going the resturaunt over the road, I agreed.

He keeps saying I "look sexy" and its actually making me feel really repelled and sick. He even had thenerve to say to me on MSN that where Im going tonight Im sure I will pick someone up because all the men will fancy me. ( Its a political lecture, hardly a meat market nightclub) Actually makes me feel totally sick that he thinks of me as nothing more than a sex object, He has never admitted that he feels like this, but on MSN there is is in black and white.

Feel desperately sad and empty, is this truly all he thinks of me. Seems like it.

Oh well onwards and upwards, have lots of things I have to get sorted out today, so must keep busy.

love to you all from 1foot

i think a lot of men think of women as sex objects, I would like to hope that they also enjoy our company and as much as sex is part of it that it is not the only reason they live with women!

oh dear, get rid of the last post, tihif, you don't want any recriminations, or them to know you post here, incase it gets out hunx you have been heard x I will watch the programme and we can discuss on here tomorrow in a cloak and dagger way, please remove the above post, to keep yourself safe!

sorry to arrive here to offload without having contributed recently..
I just need to put this somewhere right now.
It's my birthday today.
The children brought me breakfast in bed and had drawn lovely cards.They are planning to make tea as a surprise after school_ I'm not supposed to know!-
A couple of Mums from school are calling infor coffee on the way to collect dc's this pm.
So that's lovely.It really is.And I'm sitting on the sofa with baby ,as usual.She's beautiful.

I had a card from my parents in the post.It was one of the free ones that you get which are painted by artists with their feet.There was a cheque for £50.It just said "from Mum and Dad,hope it's a sunny day" nothing else

My mother just rang.When I picked up the phone there was silence.Then after I had said hello several times,her voice said "did our cheque not arrive then?"
Not happy birthday first
Oh yes,thanks. I said
"Well we thought it must have been lost in the post since you haven't rung to thank us,did you not think we might like a phone call on your birthday I suppose you are busy celebrating are you all dressed up to go out somewhere special"
No space to reply ,all at high volume.This is 10.15 am.Baby is crying as has come unplugged from feed.
She carries on
"How are the children we don't hear from you ,you should allow them to ring their granparents they are missing out it's not fair.Its a lovely day here today we are going out for lunch where are you having lunch?"

"it's raining here,I'm feeding the baby"

"well it's not raining here.Is she going through the night yet?"

me - "not yet,she's only 9 weeks"

"perhaps she's not getting enough milk .Aunty B is coming to stay with us this weekend and hasn't seen the children for ages,she's with us til next week,we will be doing ....[plans,trips etc]"

me " how lovely,do enjoy all that"

"Have you nothing else to say,here's your father"

he says "did you get the money,good how are the children?is the baby sleeping all day?
" no,dad,I am very tired and busy"
The line goes dead.
They have hung up

I was "supposed" to have invited them to bring Aunty B over for the day.they find her very hard work.Mother wanted to do "these are MY grandchildren,watch me being Granny" for B (unmarried) to envy and convey to the rest of the family.

How does this still have the power to hurt so much and feel like my fault.I'm in floods of tears and feel empty lonely and useless.
DD3 has a fluffy monkey toy and has left it on the sofa.I have twice been convinced it was my old lurcher who is 5 years dead.She was my familiar and knew all my secrets.I think the only one i ever trusted.We have 2 jack Russell's now,but they are far from calm and gentle!
I hate my parents version of th world

Hi pm HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!

They really, truly don't see you as a seperate being in a seperate life do they....what an extraordinary conversation. What a strange place their internal reality is.

Be busy and have FUN today.

xxx

oh well done for realising what the phone call was all about, them and their needs!

They are feeling invisible no doubt, and in need of showing off and feeling superior to the aunt, no doubt it is shaming for them, that it is your birthday, there are no phone calls, no visits to the children and baby for the aunt, and she is realising that there is a problem, no doubt she has been fed a line about it being to do with you, not them, but at the end of the day the shame is there inside of your parents and it is their stuff... they have again brought into your day.

You sound like you have some lovely people around you and no doubt life is very hard for you right now!

I was thinking what my birthday will be like, I won't have anyone do anything nice for me apart from my children, I will be ignored and irrelevant to others, and I will probably have my mother use it as yours have as an excuse to be all about her and hurt me as your parents have done in the process!

At least they did not turn up at your door with the aunt putting you on the spot!

I wonder if the phone call was also for them to now moan about your behavior so they have something to complain about to make life with the aunt easier for them!

Oh pinemartina
A massive happy birthday and unmn hug from me.

Darling, on your own birthday, they have to make it all about them don't they. What a pile of crap for you. of course your parents version of the world is twisted. I guess we shouldnt expect anything other than this. Im coming to this conclusion, "whatever your expectations , lower them".

Your parents view of the world is very wrong, it is hateful, it is designed to make you feel inferior and them good. I guess the idea that you should over feed your baby to ensure your little precious one doesnt "demand too much attention" or that you are doing something "wrong" I guess perpetuates their own ideal of what wonderful parents they are.
Staggered how crap they are.

On the plus side if you feel like looking for it, you have clearly done a wonderful job with your own children for the efforts they have gone to to make you feel special and loved, which obviously you DO deserve. YOU DO.

I truly wish that you can find something to spend that 50 quid on that spoils your inner child rotten on a day when she needs to feel like the most special little girl in the world. AND SHE IS. If it was me Id probably spend it on hair bows, chewing gum and a miniskirt dad would not have approved of one bit.

Ex/ps dog was a jack russell too, lovely natures, a scrapping childlike terrier nature that dont let up and generally like to get their own way

Sending love to you on your birthday Pine martina xxxx

Thank you thisis ,mh and 1fif..lovely cake

passes it round to others on thread<

You are all so right,of course.
Aunt is M's sister and has LD ,is very hard work.Father has advanced Parkinsons.
Mother must be furious at the week in store for her,coping with trying to control them as she patronises the life out of them both,doing up buttons,helping from chairs,washing etc.

MH yes,they are gathering evidence of my uncaring awfulness to share with my b's and sil who will be there for the usual Sunday lunch and slag off pinemartina session,lamenting how they are all being denied their rights of access to my dc's,who they believe are desperate to see them but prevented by me.

They have of course let all other family members and their entire community - where we used to live - know how pained they are about all this,how f*ed up I am etc

She used to - still tries - to totally control other dc's when baby's,but is disinterested in this one.My brothers haven't even acknowledged her birth although m is convinced they sent cards which both got lost in post...

I emailed m's much younger brother when he contacted me to congratulate on baby.Cautiously mentioned he wd be unlikely to see us if visiting M and D.He then said not to forget he had grown up with a very controlling big sister who had married a man just like their father and that I should feel free to be honest with him if I felt like it!

That was validating!

Like the idea of spending money on my inner child!Will buy something pretty and flowery,maybe actually some flowers...everything always functional only in their house,m dresses like an old man,used to dress me that way too!

DD1 just txted to tell me to xpress some milk as she will be looking after baby for couple of hours this evening and xh has suggested we go out for drink to discuss holiday arrangements.
I just had a thought that has cheered me up and am going to post a new thread about it.....xxx

Hi Pine Martina - happy birthday for today.

What would happen if you went completely ott with your parents ie -

They phone and straight away you gush - ohhh thank you sooooo much for your cheque. Yes it's lovely and sunny today and of course bring Auntie B by for a visit - I'm sooooooo looking forward to seeing all of you!!!!
Yes the baby is sleeping for 12 hours straigh EVERY night - blah blah.

And talk away so fast that she can't get a word in edgeways.

Maybe that's not the point of this thread - as in not being yourself - but it would make her catch her breath for a while??

It was on yesterday, not tomorrow.

oh didn't watch it tihif, was going to tomorrow to discuss, glad you removed the post, did you see it yesterday?

tracy like that idea x

pm, yummy cake, put a smile on my face...

your uncle sounds fab!

enjoy the plans for holidays and babysitting etc x

"They phone and straight away you gush - ohhh thank you sooooo much for your cheque. Yes it's lovely and sunny today and of course bring Auntie B by for a visit - I'm sooooooo looking forward to seeing all of you!!!!
Yes the baby is sleeping for 12 hours straigh EVERY night - blah blah."

I have to say this is more like how I would be.
Yeah everything is simply fantastic. Sorry no I dont have time to see you because i JUST HAVE SO MANY EXCITING THINGS TO DO. "oh what you say, I forgot about you? Oh never, your perfect influence is in my life every minute ; " but then im a Sarcastic fucker shrugs who cares

Tracy - that's a good strategy for some.I did take that line for several years - throughout marriage to xh2.
I found I couldn't cope with the construction of another false reality,as they bought into it ,relaxed,enjoyed and continued to be evil to me but lovely to everyone else.
I felt had disappeared,even though it was fake and a defence.
Think it was something about them gaining all they actually want from me - the appearance of happy family and control over my dc's,the whole fab granny bit.
Don't want them to feel they have it,or to get good strokes off me.....

That is understandable pm, that you don't want them to have their fantasy realised, or to be the one to give them positive strokes!

I am procrastinating today, and am quite upset at myself, I am also doing some forms of self sabotage on myself, grrrrr....

Hey MH,

whats going on, are you ok ?

1foot x

happy birthday pm!! 1foot, you're sounding rather feisty in your recent posts! Are you feeling a bit better about things? Sorry your boyfriend was a fuckwit ... no, scrub that, I'm actually quite glad he's starting to show himself.

mh, hope you're ok-ish.

I've had an accelearted downswing, followed by a very nasty virus. Sure the 2 things are connected, but also sure this can't last longer than another week at most. And the forecast's good for the weekend. I bought some gerberas for the garden

" *1foot, you're sounding rather feisty in your recent posts! Are you feeling a bit better about things? Sorry your boyfriend was a fuckwit ... no, scrub that, I'm actually quite glad he's starting to show himself."

Hiya grace

Yeah Im ok Feeling a little bit better

Saw a friend yesterday who basically listened, said the right things, completely agreed with me.

Always nice to feel a bit vindicated

Still have got a very long way to go, but I am starting to think about some plan bs, not sure what they are, but I need to think seriously about what is is I want. Im not sure what it is. But I know what my life going forward is NOT going to include, wont be including a toxic boss, a crap flat, a lousy self-centred partner whos fucked up family life dictates my movements. Im open to considering getting back together with him but he has to be serious about getting some real help with his problem family and their toxic-as-hell legacy. (I have to be realistic- dont think this is going to happen!) Anyway, plan Bs...

What it will look like, who knows.

Hope you feel better soon Grace, keep strong x

Love from 1foot