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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

'But We Took You to Stately Homes' Part 2...a thread for adult children of abusive families

704 replies

therealsmithfield · 28/04/2010 21:14

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

OP posts:
Mummiehunnie · 06/06/2010 11:18

1 foot you are not out of turn, I am not in a relationship at the moment, so no need for contraceptives, will be something I am planning on bringing up with psychologist when I get my appointment though the pmt!

how's you today?

1footinfront · 06/06/2010 19:21

Hi MH
The irony is when we were together, we were using condoms (tmi?!? as we were planning to start a family- thats a whole new issue altogether) but because my PMT was quite bad along with a load of other issues, I thought it might be worth a try to stabilise things emotionally for a little while so about 1 month before we broke up, I had the injection and I felt a lot more stable, a lot stronger.

I think when the time comes around to renew Ill have the implant ( it does the same thing) but is more reversible, ie as son as it gets taken out fertility- and pmt!- returns to normal.

It has helped me so much, I couldn't not suggest it.

Er how am I? Not so great. I was hoping to get away overseas for a few days to an event, I guess I was waiting for some approval to just go and book it, and then I got it last night from a friend who said just go and now its sold out. Just feel so hacked off with myself about not being able to make decisions for myself and needing someone to verify that i can and should be doing things on my own without considering EX/p and being monumentally worried about my own safety which is a gift from him as before I met him I used to do all sorts of things alone, including going abroad when I had a whale of a time. Ive been asleep all afternoon I just couldnt stop crying so the day has been a total write off, like the previous month has to be honest with FA achieved and no sense of purpose at all.

However, I get to see my therapist tomorrow which I cant wait for, I am desperate to see her. I hope I can get the most out of the session instead of sitting there simply sobbing the whole hour away.

Hope you are doing ok? I was so pleased to see what happened with your mum. How super strong you are. I was awe struck. Well done MH xxxx

Mummiehunnie · 06/06/2010 20:45

If the implant works for you then go for it, I am glad they are helping you, I am not interested in contraceptives in my body when not having sexual relations, even when I was with ex we used condoms until he had a vesectomy, I have never been a chemical contraceptive girl, thanks for the suggestion though x

The travelling and making plans sounds good, where are you thinking of going?

I had a few triggers yesterday mother calling around and then neighbour died, cried my eyes out to samaritans for an hour, I didn't know her well it was more about my self really that I was crying than for her or her family, I had thought of doing something nice for them, then I thought what did they ever do for me when they knew I was struggling, they did nothing so I pulled back on my instinct to be kind, eyese were even swollen this morning till noon! not cried like that for a very long time!

1footinfront · 06/06/2010 21:16

No totally take your point about the chemicals, I wasn't over-keen but I guess I need all the help i can get right now!

Was going to go to America, but there is no chance if I cant get the ticket. Ill just stay here and wallow for another month I suppose.
GOD. I just cant stop crying today. I just feel so damn pathetic.

Sorry you've been sad too, glad youve had the samaritans to help. I think if you heart tells you to do something nice for someone, then you should, just because they haven't had that feeling doesn't mean you shouldn't express yourself as a kind, caring person. Sounds a bit like you were trying to suppress the kind part of your personality in case you got rejected? I have been doing this for years so am totally familiar with it now , I just dont think its healthy, it has made me "not myself". Makes me sad for the person I used to be that I have suffocated ( along with some help from Ex/p)

Off to weep somemore at my pathetic meals for one and the total lonliness and shame that has engulfed me today- sorry for being so depressing today.

Love from 1foot.

therealsmithfield · 06/06/2010 22:07

onefoot I should say I hope you are feeling better soon, and I do, but try and see this as part of healing for you. You are griveing for your relationship and on a deeper level the stirrings of grief for your childhhood and the relationships there too.
Lavish yourself with good things and kindness.
The trip sounds like a good idea in theory but in reality it would only serve as a distraction. The universe moves in mysterious ways and all that .x

MH Perhaps the crying is a delayed reaction to the incident with your mum the other day? Just a thought.x

grace Hope you are getting some respite from all your hard emotional work. x

OP posts:
1footinfront · 06/06/2010 22:20

Hi TRS

"The trip sounds like a good idea in theory but in reality it would only serve as a distraction"

Yeah I know. I also thought it might be a good way to get myself out of my comfort zone and actually you know talk to people. I just dont feel like I can go out and sit in a bar in town because obviously it would look like im on the pick-up. I find in the UK the only people who ever start conversations with me are men, overseas, I got talking to couples, children women and men, all ages.

I guess im just very lonely and need to feel like I'm not invisible and that I can do things on my own. I suppose thats really far off

I never thought Id be grieving for my independence too as well

Mummiehunnie · 06/06/2010 22:27

i foot you are right, I think I was trying to supress part of me, I think as I am that type of person, so many people have taken advantage of me, I am moving soon, I won't invest in them, as I once would have, I will do something nice for me instead! you are right, I should not supress that part of me though x

I am sorry you are so tearfull, I have been fine today, took the dog for two short walks me and dd2, me in my scooter, I am getting less ashamed of being in it. I am still on anti biotics, this abscess is not getting better now had it over a week, I need to get it sorted, no time tomorrow as man who called around to view privatly, is coming with his wife tomorrow, I put him off today, as origionally planned!

I have planted out at last, now the threats of frost, which damaged some of my annuals, and the over the top heat has passed, as once they are out, you have to keep watering them dammed things! so commitment has taken place for veg plot, got some plants to put into pots, as want to take them with me when I move tomorrow, along with a dog walk, kids to school, sort out someone to do the iorning and putit into bags, sort out washing and clean house ready for viewing, so a busy day tomorrow.

I even cut the grass at the front and back today, I weeded a bed at the front of the house also, I was so slow, hey ho! my legs are just not there yet... am disappointed there is nothing I can do though!

I made a lovely dinner today and enough for tomorrow, lunches made for kiddies and I feel knackered tonight!

I wonder what you think of the following:

Got a dog two weeks ago, first night she barked half the night, neighbour did not hear, last weekend dog barked half the night, neighbour came in and was manipulative, long story about her, said as her hubby had just come out of hospital would take dogs cage out of conservatory into house that night, and did as I promised, it hurt my back to do it and distrupted dog. Last night so third time, between 11 and midnight dog barked, she knocked on the door at quarter to, I did not answer it, I inconvenienced myself once for her, she has lied to me made false promises to me, manipulated me, and could not give too hoots about me, it is all about them... anyways when gardening today, she came over all nice, I was nice back, I knew what was coming, she said she knocked last night, I said was that you? I don't answer the door that late at night, she was saying the dog was barking all the time, and it would be nice if I could take it in again tonight, I looked away and did not answer her, she has a dog herself, she stood there, she was flabbergasted really, she has not had a lot to do with me the last year or two, we were quite friendly before, she was in so much shock that I would not let her control me and I woudl not put her needs ahead of mine, hse then walked off, I said bye. I then went about my business. I could understand if it was continual, it was an hour in one week at a weekend, I slept on the soft which was not comfortable for my ongoing condition, the abscess was killing me, my legs and back hurt, and there is no way I am bringing that cage back in the house, i decided on the conservatory as I am selling my house and the dog smells will put folk off, I can't keep taking it in and out of the conservatory, I can't be bothered and should not have to explain myself to that woman, she can see I am in a scooter, she knows I have not got good healt as I have told her before, she only cares about herself, I was thinking if she asks me again, I should say it would be great if you would close your windows and put in ear plugs if it is bothering you so much, it was just ONE hour, but I don't know if that is being nasty or not, what do you guys think, I find it so hard to stand up for myself in a healthy way, and I don't want to start a feud, I just dont' want to be manipulated, controlled and taken for granted, I have needs to that need to be met, and for once I am in control of the situation.

Dog has gone to bed ok, but has most nights, I don't know what spooked her last night, but I am not going to respond to barking as it will get her in a habbit of getting attention and she will be at it all the time then, what do you think?

Mummiehunnie · 06/06/2010 22:30

September is not that far away 1 foot, lots of courses to sign up for, and people to spend time with, I take your point about bars on your own x

You and grace are having such a harder time in one way as you don't have the kids to care for and company, although having them can be a strain also, so it is swings and roundabouts x

trs how are you?

1footinfront · 06/06/2010 22:46

"I could understand if it was continual, it was an hour in one week at a weekend, I slept on the soft which was not comfortable for my ongoing condition, the abscess was killing me, my legs and back hurt, and there is no way I am bringing that cage back in the house"

i guess I would go for the reverse psychgology approach here and say, Oh you understand dont you, the dog will obviously take a long time to settle in, Im taking advice from the vet/rehoming centre and they say the most important thing I can do is set clear boundaries yada yada. The subtext being, Im going to listen to them first, rather than you.

"but of course you understand, being a dog lover".

Yes, it is bloody hard not having anyone to see or anything, but posting here gives me a lot of strength.

thank you from 1 foot.

Mummiehunnie · 07/06/2010 09:29

glad you get strength, and thanks for the advice, will try that one with her!

Just posted a new thread about ex and the kids, does not rain but pours!

therealsmithfield · 07/06/2010 09:56

MH As you are moving i wouldnt worry about this womans needs at all. Might sound hard but you have enough to deal with. She is an adult and like you say she could buy herself some ear plugs. Calling around so late at night makes me feel like this person is a bit bullying in her behaviour or at the very least has a sense of entitlement.
She has her own dogs so she should be more understanding.
Ignore her is my advice and dont answer the door to her at unsociable hours.
sorry to hear about your ex, not read the thread but hope you get some good support.x

1foot Its interesting what you said, about feeling invisible. You aren't invisible sweetheart, perhaps this is how you were made to feel though by exp and family? As in your needs haven't counted?

OP posts:
Mummiehunnie · 07/06/2010 10:04

definatly she has a sense of entitlement, dont' forget she does not know the changed me and she got a shock yesterday I think! She was used to treating me and me allowing myself to be treated in a certain way! I told her I don't open the door late at night!

glad to have others views regarding the neighbour that you agree with me, I think next time I will do the reverse psychology thing, i am very tempted to tell her that she has some self important sense of entitlement that she and her needs are more important than others, and to stop trying to control me, that is confrontational and probably not helpfull to me, and I am better being as false as she is!

therealsmithfield · 07/06/2010 10:10

MH Yes tempting, but playing in to her hands as then she can talk about your reaction to her. Ignore Ignore Ignore. She will hate that and dont feel any guilt for it.She is just offloading onto you so you dont let her . It helps sometimes doesnt it to have your own sanity confirmed.
Just read your other thread. Your poor Dcs! They have you though MH and you are a good caring mother. Hug them and make sure they know this is not their fault in any way, that he is angry at you not them. At least we all know he is as mad as a hatter. Hugs xx

OP posts:
Mummiehunnie · 07/06/2010 10:43

yes they know he is ill, I tell them that, it is easier to deal with to know he is ill for us all!

Yes hugs and not their fault definatly!

What do you mean he is angry at me, do you think he got married to her to spite me, would not surprise me, he does all kinds of odd things, i am feeling more and more sorry for the fool as time goes on.

You are right about the neighbour, yes I will continue to ignore her and leave her as i did yesterday running out of things to say and feeling foolish... she will no doubt gloss over the fact I moved the dog in once and exagerate the barking to folk, i will ignore and not feel guilt you are fab trs....

how's you today?

1footinfront · 07/06/2010 11:17

Hi TRS

"1foot Its interesting what you said, about feeling invisible. You aren't invisible sweetheart, perhaps this is how you were made to feel though by exp and family? As in your needs haven't counted?"

Quite the opposite really dad always- and I mean always said I was "so selfish" He still does. I thought about this a long time ago, and I know what he means Is Im selfish for being born and ruining his life when he was 19. I have said to him I never asked to be born and that led to a huge episode of violence I will never forget. I was selfish for moving out of home, selfish for going to uni, selfish for going out with freinds, selfish for leaving my lunch, selfish for wanting to wear wellies on a hot day, selfish for crying when I was shouted at. I remember one episode where I was shouted at really badly for fainting in a 100 degree heat.

One Xmas eve, on a break from uni I got a panicked phone call from a friend and he told me that one of his housemates had died suddenly of meningitis.As I had been at their house and stayed over the day before, I should go to the dr to get some tablets to avoid it in case I had contracted it by staying over. I asked my dad who was home to drive me to the drs, I wasn't emotional even, just calm, on a "we have to go". He went totally spare, because obviously I was "being selfish". Later that evening I cancelled going out with friends because you shouldn't drink with the tablets and again, I got a mouthful of verbal abuse for "being dramatic" and how "it was all about me" even though I was hiding off in the spare room reading a book.

You name it. I was "selfish".

When i realised not all dads are like this when i went to university I thought "fuck you" I can and will do as I please and I dont have to justify it to you.

sad to say that to a much lesser degree in terms of the verbal abuse, Ex/p has made me feel much the same way. If I dont dedicate my whole life to sitting with him being in the same room as him, forsaking all others, then I dont really love him and im a disappointment. I know this is a problem attachment issue.

I guess I feel invisible because, Im not working, I got no friends, im not going anywhere or seeing anyone or even saying anything for days. The only people that have expressed any interest i seeing me is my parents who want me to go home this week. I would love to see my mum but there is no way I want to see my dad but I just cant tell her that because she will feel responsible and she has enough to contend with

Ex/p told me yesterday that he missed me, he had been out to visit some friends of ours and this other couple were there as well who are getting married. I just feel im waiting for any glimmer of anyone liking me from anywhere right now. I hang on the internet waiting for a message from him or an email.

Its pretty sad but I guess I dont have anything else to do.

Sorry again for being so depressing
Love from 1foot

Mummiehunnie · 07/06/2010 11:27

you are not depressing at all, you are expressing what is going on in your life and reliving past hurts, which is what this thread is for!

What are you going to do about the lack of social life 1 foot, are you ready to get back into the world, I found it usefull to hibernate for a bit, and it has been since new year that I have been venturing out amongst people as the new me, still reverting to the old me, then when someone does something I don't like I turn into the hard me lol x

What would you like to do with yourself 1 foot?

the stuff you mention from your dad, I have since last year understood through counselling was your dad projecting his stuff to you, everything he said to you was about him and how he felt, so the menangitis was all about him, he was selfish etc...

once you know that they speak backwards, you can go away and think about what they have said and translate it into regular people speak, I hope that one day I can do it when it happening and don't have to go over it afterwards, hopefully even better, I won't have to deal with backwards speaking narc's anymore lol x

therealsmithfield · 07/06/2010 11:55

1foot You were not allowed to express your needs, or feelings not seperately from your father. If you did you were punished and labelled as selfish. Without one's own needs and feelings we are become invisible. Far safer from your past experiences to focus on other people's needs because then you wont be punished, denigrated, diminished.
So I was wondering if this is where the discomfort comes from now being on your own. You have had to protect yourself by tending to others.

Mh Otherwise your dh would not behave the way he has. He must feel something as opposed to not feeling anything. I dont know your backstory in detail wrt him, but I do know that narcs thrive store up a lot of anger and are very punishing. Getting married may not have been your punishment perse, but not telling you or dcs? I think this sounds intentional spite to me.
Thanks for asking after me. Im ok (ish). I will come and update in a bit but have two dcs who get more and more 'aware' about me being on the computer. they dont like it .
I had a bit of a breakthrough yesterday. I finally realised I really was abused, which I know sounds completely bizarre after 2 years of NC. But a sneaky little part of me was still in denial. Yesterday I had two memories resurface which I relayed to dh and cried, as it truly hit me with some force.
I have cleared away the final rock of denial and with it any guilt at being NC. I also realised as a result that I am not a bad mother (another belief I had), I have never abused my dcs in any way, they are happy and confident and loved. I guess the issue was if I couldnt get my head around the abuse I had become hypervigilent about damaging my children by just being human with normal human flaws.
I have to cut my internet time down, but I will bob back in and out as this thread has been absolutely life saving for me.
just wanted you guys to know I am still here and reading. x

OP posts:
therealsmithfield · 07/06/2010 12:03

1foot Just read that back and am not explaining very well. Apologies, but I will hop back on later. I guess Im just coaxing you into really fixing on your hurt and where it stems from.
It can be a bit like sticking a plaster on an unhealed open wound. You can meet other people and focus on them for a time, but you will be foucssing outwardly again instead of inwardly.
There is nothing wrong with craving company of course, not at all. Im just pushing you to delve a biut first. Think of me as a playful elf, with good intentions .
the more you use this time to delve the healthier your 'new' friendships and relationships will be. Built on new foundations if you like.
You wont be alone forever, it just 'feels' that way right now. xx

OP posts:
IsGraceAvailable · 07/06/2010 13:37

Thank you, all, for your thoughtfulness and good wishes. I really do appreciate it! (Routine namechange, in case you were wondering.) I'm sort of floating around in what feels like a vacuum at the moment - a bit like you, perhaps, 1foot. This part of my reconstruction project is more an act of faith, than anything like "progress". I'm trusting my mind to respond to the work I'm doing ... therapist says it will, and she sould know

1foot, I talk to myself out loud - that was a decision I made, ages ago, after finding I'd become awkward in conversation (due to long periods of silence). It seems to work. Who cares what the neighbours think Also, I go to the shops at least once a day and make sure I say something, even the standard weather remark, so that I have a 'conversation' with somebody else - dunno if any of that's useful for you?

An old friend rang yesterday (hurrah!) but I heard myself telling him I'm "not doing anything" and have "nothing to say". Picked myself up a little too late; I'm now going to include something of daily interest in my self-talk!!

It's weird, this therapy stuff, innit? It's a pleasure to be able to be open about it here

Love and luck to us all. xxx

juiceyju · 07/06/2010 16:15

So many people have had to live with such tragedy in their lives of varying degrees. It hurts, it's painful but if the person who has "messed up your life" does not want to change leave them alone. Do not give them the opportunity to continue their bad behaviour, if it upsets you further. Making this decision is hard and takes courage but it's empowering, you will feel better very quickly.

You can't heal the past wounds, all you can try and do is forgive them. Something is hurting them inside too but you do not need to "play their game or be their victim". Have the feeling you have,anger, hatred, sadness etc., feel them and let go of them forever. Be true to yourself, you deserve to feel happy and keep your chidlren safe too.
I am not belittling anyones experience, just encouraging you to be strong and free yourself.

thisishowifeel · 08/06/2010 09:40

I had a therapy session yesterday...it is so powerful. Last night I had dreams that were so violent, and so vivid.

I was smashing my mum's head against a wall in a room in my h house where he lived when we got together. I couldn't get h to hear me, but the surroundings were really beautiful, a view of the ocean, and beautiful soft curtains. Such a strange ,eeting of soft and gentle and beautiful and shocking horrible violence and rage.

It pretty well sums up where I am though now.

My therapist said that she was aware that I could "take off" at any moment now, because of the nature if my personality, and job. She also said that to do so now could very well end in a crash as my wings were not quiye fluffed out enough.

I love this process somehow, despite it being the hardest, most intense thing ever...I KNOW it's working.

I had a flurry of texts from h finally admitting his abuse, I had my first apology, and he acknowledged that it would be a long road for him to travel. Never though I'd hear that in a million years...but I understand the concept of hoovering too.

There was a letter in the Guardian on Saturday about an abusive relationship. There's lots of publicity with the world cup and it's links to abusive behaviours. We seem to be moving forwards.

I have been reading, and am sorry for the me' ness of this post. I needed to get that stuff out into the world.

Mummiehunnie · 08/06/2010 12:30

tihif, hugs to you x

Mummiehunnie · 08/06/2010 12:55

Hi All x

I have been thinking about communication and my skills in it!

I have realised that I am a great talker, I have no problem talking about myself, or drawing someone else to talk about them and their lives and I enjoy listening to them.

I realise that my communication problems have been in that I have not known the correct way to get a good result for myself! I don't think I have ever had any good examples. Mother was a pushover, who would use nasty ways, father was agresssive and nasty. I was really into religion as a child and I tried to go the way of that, with bits of my parents and people I met along the way!

I remember that I was really impressed with the way ex manipulated people, for example he would part a crowd with the way he stared at people, I eventually learned that stare. I have since he left stopped it, I think now I and the kids are the only one's not fully scared and intimidated at his glare stare!

So since october I have been trying to do things differently, I have read a little about ta, it is hard going really! so i don't read much of it at a go, and there are long gaps between it!

So here I am thinking about the ex and his remarriage and thinking about how hopefull his bride is and happy, as I was, and I thought back to my marriage again, what I was thinking was that it probably failed due to communication problems and I had thought that they were on his side, now I am beginning to understand what my communication problems are:

I think that I have been too scared to tell someone I am scared of my true feelings, I am scared to even acknowledge them to myself and so a habbit of acquese has been part of my life, that easy going thing I accepted in childhood, that thing that was once said to me, you did what you did to survive is making sense to me! I locked away my wants and needs and thought them as irrelevant as everyone else was telling me they were, and it cut off the communication part of me that was able to recognise internally and communicate to others what I want and need in life...

I am going to think more on this, and I wonder if anyone else has anything on this topic to add about their experience and thoughts on the subject!

IsGraceAvailable · 08/06/2010 12:56

I love the idea of fluffing out your wings!

I don't seem to have any wings at the moment - in fact, my back has become a rigid mass of locked muscles & trapped nerves. I have enough experience to know this indicates a fear response. Not sure what to do about it though - maybe I'll try reframing it as growing pains for my wings!!!

I have a very strong urge to 'step away' from psychological work at the moment. I'm trying to compromise ... and, of course, muddle through somehow. Ho hum

Mummiehunnie · 08/06/2010 12:59

I also think that the lack of communication and fear that I had of not being heard and loosing the other person if I revealed what I really thought about things even in friendships was a problem as I held up anger issues that were never released, when I think of it I would never tell people for fear what was bothering me and allowed them to walk all over me as I did not want to be like others in my life and ended up being a door mat, playing the ta game kick me and taking it all internally inside of myself rather than just telling them and it being ok... I feel a bit dumb now, the thing is I did what I did to survive right?