So she went on a "date" with my husband

[MillyMollyMoo]

Which I am expected to believe was platonic, at 1am the week before Christmas and now I have been invited out for a night out with a small group where she will be.
Of course I am not actually wanted there at all but I suspect he knows the only way he stands a chance of going is if I am there too.

Would I be unreasonable if I said no and you're not going either ? I can use being pregnant as an excuse frankly I don't want to be socialising at all.

I don't want to be cruel - I have every sympathy with you - but I think AF may be right. I'm doing an English lit degree & am only in my 1st year, which is so far below the stress levels of medicine that I can't even imagine. I have all sorts going on in my marriage, or lack thereof, & an 11 month old DS. That is just the one DS. I'm really struggling to stay on top of everything - to the point that I'm really not. I should be able to sail through my course to be honest (that sounds conceited, but YKWIM), but I'm running the risk of messing it all up & having to drop out.

Apart from the wasted time & sense of failure, that's a lot of debt for no reason.

On the other hand, there is a lot of financial help for student parents & you may be able to go it alone from that perspective - if you talk to a financial advisor at the uni, they'll be able to give you some useful information & ideas of what you'll be entitled to.

I know how horrible this sounds, but I truly think that it'll be at the limit of what you can juggle without an unreliable, deceitful waste of oxygen taking the piss out of you - with him, I don't think you stand a chance

Milly - go to a solicitor and have an appointment, it brought me a lot of peace once I knew what I was entitled to etc. You maybe surprised on what you will get in terms of help and what you'd be entitled to from him.

I think this financial argument is not a good enough reason to stay. If you don't want to "lay the smack down" as I call it and try and work through things.

Don't stay for money, it's a very poor role model for your children's future relationships. Children will be harmed by this unhealthy collusion, because it will result in underlying tensions and open conflict in the home.

Do you not have parents or in laws who can help with childcare or friends? Does the University not offer a nursery?

I think you need to do your homework (for want of a better term). Arm yourself with information so you can make an informed choice. For you and your children.

However if your reluctance is really as you do want to save your marriage, you need to sit him down and have a heart to heart and book in some marriage counseling asap IMO.

milly, I am sorry for my harshness, really

I wish I could tell you it will be ok

but I can't

I remember the first thread on this one, so sorry for you OP.

But HOLY CRAP yet again on MN I have to rub my eyes in wonder and ask if I have entered a time machine that has hurled back to 1952?

I can't believe that there are actual real people on here who think that the way to deal with a man who lies to his wife, shags somebody else in the week before xmas and thern lies some more is to get a haircut and act lovingly towards him to present a 'united front'????

This is coffee spitting stuff. Why the hell should any woman have to degrade herself by having to 'try harder' to 'keep' a man? Although these responses have to be fair, been the minority on here, they appall me and depress me intensely.

It's like that song when you're supposed to do your hair and makeup becuase there are other girls at the office etc.

OP, you have to find some way to grow a pair and really deal with this issue. And not by putting on lippy and sneering at the OW. Start sneering at the cheating shitbag on the sofa next to you.

oh milly, i really do get where your coming from, im a few years older than you and just embarking on a career, woe betide anyone who gets in my way because i want it so badly, but i think your expectations are unrealistic.

could you really leave your children for a career? how would this affect them? single minded gritty determination is good - but use it in the right way. yes you may end up with a career if your bloody lucky, but you may end up with nothing else.

why dont you just make an appointment with a solicitor and get the facts, explore the benefits system, work out how you would begin to do this on your own - your DH is still your DC father and he would have to step up and do his share of the caring, if he leaves you then the decision is out of your hands anyway. surely it would be better to plan how your going to achieve your goals than be left knee deep in shit?

i cannot see how on earth you can contemplate 7 years of study and hard graft under such circumstances as they are.

why dont you have a frank discussion with your DH. he is obviously unhappy and so are you. i cant see this working while heads are in the sand.

MillyMollyMoo, I'm truly sorry to hear how your husband is treating you. You say you have children which makes me thinke he's not a teenager which should make him stomach not going out all the time. Some men just think their entitled. I'm also sorry to say that given the back story (I read the previous thread, thanks to the link) and can't think he hasn't had an affair. I can't think why you should degrade yourself to be in the same room as someone who thinks nothing of fucking your husband while your 7 months pregnant. The fact that you might be in the same social situation tells me she knows full well that you are pregnant plus has other children. Perhaps you should either do as PfftTheMagicDragon says and tell him you know and that he has a responsibility to ensure your marriage survives, or confront her (even just ask her what she's up to, it might shame her sufficiently.

If, as you say, your aware of his faults and your biding your time then please please please make sure you bide it properly. Devious as it may be tell him household bills have rise and tuck away the money - trust me you'll need it before you get any maintenance or child support or whatever. Also make sure you've got the legals sorted, like who owns what part of the house, who's name its in etc etc. AND, work damn hard on your degree. If the day comes and he leaves or you can't take it anymore then you, and your children, will need you to be able to support them. So focus all your energy on your children and your studies. That is what counts, your husband does not. Obviously he might be a lovely dad and a decent husband at times but make no mistake a man who's decided to leave the home or has been kicked out for bad behaviour wont be keen to cash out for his family later - and he'll be thinking of himself (partying, setting up a new home) thereafter. So put aside all the money you can and get your degree. Be glad you have had your warnings, there are women who dont.

To all of you who now think that I hate men, I don't. But I have seen friends who have been left destitute by unfaithful men so would like to pass on advise they would give.

I'm not saying, MillyMollyMoo, that you shouldn't try to work on your marriage or whatever and I wish you all the best for the future - just look after yourself and the little ones.

I don't ever give relationship advice, but re; childcare whilst studying - you may be entitled to the Childcare Grant. All of the info is on the directgov site.

Hmm. I have read your other thread MMM and I must admit I actualy have some sympathy with your H. You don't seem to like or love this man very much and you seem to have felt that way for some time. So actually, you are being a bit of a dog in the manger about him becoming involved with other women.
I wonder if this is about 'what would the neighbours say' and misplaced pride more than 'saving' a relationship that isn't currently working.
Why don't you sit down and have a calm talk with your H about what you actually need from him (which appears to be mainly shared childcare and economic support) and see if you can't come to an agreement that suits both of you - that you stay living in the same house and parenting your DC but you give up trying to be 'a couple' given that you don't seem to want a couple relationship with him any more than he seems to want an exclusive one with you.
Bollocks to what other people might think about this, your current situation is not doing any of you any favours.

SGB talks sense - could you not come to a mutual arrangement that allows some happiness for all concerned? I feel sorry for your DH in this too, he is in his thirties I presume and he is expected to spend the rest of his life with a woman who makes him only have sex from behind because she can't bear his kisses?

Most of all I feel sorry for your new baby. You write that you now realise it was an "elastoplast" baby that you fought hard to have and your DH wanted aborted at one point - yet you also now want to put career above all. Apologies for being rude (seem to be saying this on several threads tonight) but you sound very demanding, controlling and frankly unrealistic about the future.

Agree with SGB, you seem happy to stay with him so he can finance you having 5 years as a med student followed by several more as a junior doc despite wanting to leave him but aren't happy with him having flings but staying with you so he can stay with his kids. It sounds as though this is a marriage of convenience for both of you now.
Perhaps you both need to discuss how life really is and why you are actually staying together. If he works then I'm not sure how the childcare is actually any cheaper living with him anyway, although as a junior doc when you have to work nights etc it may make life easier. Life as a junior doc working unsociable hours, weekends and moving around alot is far more disruptive to "family" life than being a med student. You need a devoted selfless spouse to make it work, or very helpful family members, or be rich if you have kids.

oh

ive just read the other thread on kissing, im sorry milly but what on earth are you doing?

your DH sounds so unhappy and so do you. you said in the other thread you wished he would have an affair - id say be careful what you wish for.

do you really think that you can stay with someone that you cant bring yourself to kiss? it sounds like he repulses you and im surprised you expect him to stick around so you can study for the next 7 years, using him for money and childcare. he deserves a life too - and what you both have is no life. it sounds absolutely bloody miserable. did you think another baby would help?

your situation sounds like madness to me. you are in a desperately unhappy relationship, with 4 children, one of whom was conceived to try and patch up the marriage, and you think you can study for a medical degree in the midst of all this???

SGB is right. talk to him. if you can come to an arrangement id do it but your not going to get anywhere like this.

Euro it's not a case of putting my career before all, I think it's a case of the penny dropped around last September that DH isn't going to get his shit together anytime soon and find another job, despite taking redundancy 18 months ago and so I need to do something to get us all out of this mess, then it became a priority but we were too far down the IVF route by then to stop or go back. DC4 may well be the straw that breaks the camels back but he will be loved by both of us.

As for using him, well yes hands up I am but I am thinking of the children and their future and I don't trust him to do that too unless we're under the same roof.

At the end of the day he could leave at any time and he hasn't, I didn't ask him to stop his MBA and therefore contact with her (which has gone suspiciously quite through his phone and email) so I don't feel like I'm too controlling.

I care for him, my friends have told me to leave several times over the years, but he has nobody and I mean nobody his mother is a selfish bitch, comes over to use our internet and leaves after an hour making sure it's in school hours to avoid our children and his dad is on his 4th marriage and no interest in him or the grandchildren.
That has stopped me leaving when we had 2 children and I was 10 years younger, misguided as it was.

If you're starting med school in September you must have done the UCAS form before being pregnant. did you really get pregnant knowing you were about to do a 5 year intensive degree followed by an unsociable job? It sounds mad. If I had got pregnant before or during my degree I wouldn't have thought twice about a TOP, the 2 really aren't compatible. It sounds as though you deliberately got pregnant though. Why? It all sounds a complete mess.
I'm not convinced being a doctor is worth all this hassle. You'll either be a rubbish mum or a rubbish student, doing the 2 well with a demanding degree course is near impossible, especially with a husband who doesn't want a baby anyway and doesn't support you and fancies someone else.

I'm rambling it's time for bed, thanks again for taking the time to reply.

By MillyMollyMoo Tue 17-Nov-09 17:43:26
I know it's unfair on both of us, I have shown him how I like to be kissed of course I have, but he does what he wants to do.
There's just no sexual spark whatsoever, I don't fancy him at all and do just put up with it, I wish he'd have an affair if i'm honest, he probably will one day.
It's dreadful and all the babysitters in the world aren't going to help

Be careful what you wish for....

OP sounds mad

< leaves thread >

< my friends have told me to leave several times over the years >

You should listen to people who know you and love you, MMM.

I am totally not getting why you're glued to a marriage that, by your own account, doesn't make you happier than you'd be without it.

You can't claim you're in it for the money because he isn't making any. You're forging your own life; you put on a very good act of having your ideas together. But, if you were what you say you are, you'd have already embraced your future as a single, student mother of four - which would put you all in charity-shop clothes, and would bestow a whole new support network, friendships, cultural activities and social life on you and your kids.

I don't understand what the problem is? Pride? Get over it ... but first: Go to the meetup. Wear pointy high heels. Go right up to Miss Thing, kiss her on the cheek then turn round and STAMP on her little foot with your heel. Pour a bottle of wine down the front of DP's trousers, then go home.

How does your pride feel?

sorry but you sound quite a piece of work OP.

you had IVF for your 4th child despite having a shit marriage in which you cant face kissing your husband, and you would consider giving up your kids for your career despite this anyway. you were "too far down the ivf route" to think about not having your 4th child?

im incredulous at your utter selfishness actually. seems this marriage of convenience is all about you.
and i feel sorry for your husband.

maybe his is just realising there is more to life than being milked for his money, his childcare skills and his sperm.

Look at the date Vicar, we were already pregnant when I wrote that I felt that way, should I have aborted ? An IVF baby that he has to under go a surgical sperm extraction to give me ? I had a gun to his head when he signed those consent forms and swiped his credit card right ?

SGB has the best advice. You need to call time on this marriage; it makes both of you unhappy and it's turning you both into people you probably don't want to be.

And being freed up from the emotional toll of being married to him is best for you and your studies. Once the practical stuff is in place re childcare and finances, not having to concern yourself about where he's sticking his wick will be a huge weight off your shoulders. Will also free you to have a relationship when the time is right too.

Divorce doesn't have to be uncivilised. If he's a good dad he'll want to have contact with the children which could fit round study/school/childminder. Him being unemployed may work re childcare or cutting him loose may make him buck up his ideas re employment but, either way, could be useful to your future plans.

See a solicitor and see the uni welfare people to see what you are entitled to by means of money, childcare and support. Don't second guess, but find out.

ok, i obviously did not read your other thread before i posted earlier that you loved him.

oh no,quite a turn....but mmm.....why have ivf if doing a degree in near future? why that,the expense....i dont understand?

Because IVF may not have worked, because I truly did not expect to be offered a place, because I hoped DH would have a job, because I have always hoped things would get better.

It's really hard to explain to anyone in real life why you aren't happy with somebody who doesn't drink, smoke, gamble, hit me, we don't fight, he's fantastic with the kids, what are my grounds for leaving ??? Can you see how it looks ?