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Introducing my partner to feminism...

612 replies

blinder · 14/03/2010 12:03

On the back of a spate of good feminism threads here lately I am looking for book recommendations to give to my DP as an introduction to a feminist critique of society.

He's not a particularly neanderthal man - he loves Naomi Klein for example - but he's a bit uneducated about the reality facing women today.

We have a six month old daughter and it worries us both that she is being launched into a culture that systematically de-humanises (objectifies) girls. I'm sure he would be willing to explore ways that we can parent her consciously so that she can preserve her identity in the face of damaging cultural norms.

At the same time, I don't want him to feel lectured, blamed or patronised by the book. But I would like him to be able to examine his own investment in male superiority and recognise that he does have many assumptions about women and many blind spots about male privilege.

It's a fine line.

So, books for men, fathers or people new to feminism?

OP posts:
SugarMousePink · 16/03/2010 20:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Beachcomber · 16/03/2010 20:23

Oh well join the club Molesworth, I haven't been called a troll on this one yet but attained my MN first of being called a troll by a troll on another recent thread.

It would be great to have a topic for feminist issues.

All join on those who want to and we'll ask the HQ.

Beachcomber · 16/03/2010 20:30

I think the honour of bringing up the topic should go to dittany, if people agree, as she is so influential on these topics in MN and I know I'm not alone in having learnt so much from her.

junglist1 · 16/03/2010 20:41

Maybe give her a shout out and link to here?

antoinettechigur · 16/03/2010 20:44

I'd be up for a feminism topic. Although.. I think it is good to sometimes air these subjects in more general forums as it gets more people involved. Although there is the derailment problem. Hopefully, hopefully less of an issue of a feminism topic area.

Beachcomber, I think you may have missed being called a troll on this thread! I may not be recalling it correctly, but "somebody" seemed to think there could only be one feminist on a female-dominated forum, and that everyone rallying together was actually multiple identities of the same person. But I can't be bothered to go back and check.

SugarMousePink · 16/03/2010 20:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

blinder · 16/03/2010 21:11

Mmm I was called "blinder" which I assume was a troll accusation. Bizarre.

Agree that dittany would be the ideal choice for starting that thread if she's willing. I have been telling my RL friends and my dp about her posts. I consider myself level headed but she is uber cool.

OP posts:
SugarMousePink · 16/03/2010 21:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Beachcomber · 16/03/2010 21:44
antoinettechigur · 16/03/2010 21:46
Grin
blinder · 16/03/2010 21:49

Has everyone seen this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/930159-I-am-a-feminist-because?msgid=18945366
while we are all waiting for dittany

OP posts:
StayFrosty · 16/03/2010 21:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ItsGraceAgain · 16/03/2010 22:12

Don't like the idea of a feminism thread, because that makes feminism a 'special interest' - ie, marginalises it. The only way forward is to offer a woman-friendly viewpoint on every topic in the site!

Exhausting, I know
I've done my time ... (but am nowhere near finished yet!)

blinder · 16/03/2010 22:44

I see your point IGA but food, sleep, childbirth etc aren't marginalised topics. I'd like to see somewhere that houses little debates and shares information on the topic of womens rights. Wouldn't stop me posting on other threads too.

SF that's a good link!

OP posts:
Beachcomber · 16/03/2010 23:09

Ooh thanks for the link blinder, 'tis an absolute feminism love-in part who's counting anymore, affirmation, sisterhood, talk sense, act out, magnifico, dungareed, singed bra extravaganza on MN this week.

Love it .

ItsGraceAgain · 16/03/2010 23:35

< singed bra extravaganza >

I think that'll be my next party theme.

dittany · 16/03/2010 23:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Beachcomber · 16/03/2010 23:45

Yes, please do dittany.

We will all come and support you.

dittany · 17/03/2010 00:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

antoinettechigur · 17/03/2010 00:52

I have added my contribution. Looking forward to finding out more about dungarees.

BecauseImWorthIt · 17/03/2010 08:19

Dungarees are very trendy - so perhaps we could slip in amongst the style and beauty lot?

Beachcomber · 17/03/2010 09:14

Cunning plan BIWI!

McBitchy · 20/03/2010 21:18

dug out one of my old pairs today !

went into my local independant bookshop today to buy friends daughter The Womens Room for 14th birthday ...told them i was disappointed this classic was not available!

blinder · 22/03/2010 08:53

This is a heavy thread to wade through (although thought provoking at times) so I've edited down the book recommendations for anyone who is interested.

By TotalChaos Sun 14-Mar-10 13:21:50
I'm not particularly well read in this area, but The Beauty Myth by Naomi Wolf is interesting, and not a hard read.

By Molesworth Sun 14-Mar-10 13:31:00
He might find Raewyn Connell's book "Masculinities" interesting. And I second the Naomi Wolf recommendation. Ariel Levy's Female Chauvinist Pigs is an interesting read. Or for an overview something like "Feminism: a very short introduction" might be good. Books about one gender are always inevitably about both.

By Molesworth Sun 14-Mar-10 13:33:20
If he's a glutton for punishment, how about Judith Butler's "Gender Trouble"

By TotalChaos Sun 14-Mar-10 14:04:03
this is over ten years old, but interesting on women and the legal system, "Eve was framed" by Helena Kennedy.

By bibbitybobbityhat Sun 14-Mar-10 14:10:10
Anyway, picking jaw up off floor, I think Naomi Wolf's The Beauty Myth would be good for starters. "Naomi Wolf's uncompromising, hard-hitting investigation of the coercion of women by the Beauty Myth has the power to change lives".

By BitOfFun Sun 14-Mar-10 14:11:42
The Feminine Mystique by Betty Friedan

The Female Eunuch by Germaine Greer

Backlash by Susan Faludi

Living Dolls: The Return Of Sexism by Natasha Walter

By dittany Sun 14-Mar-10 14:19:35
How about John Stoltenberg's "Refusing to be a man" about the construction of masculinity. It's a book specifically aimed at other men to raise awareness of male privilege and male entitlement.

Then there's John Berger's "Ways of Seeing" which isn't directly about feminism, but deconstructs the male gaze and the sexual objectification of women in art and in society at large. It's a lot more interesting than I've just made it sound - the TV series that went with it is also on YouTube. It's also a very short book with more pictures than words, but it makes the point powerfully. It's from the 70s but none of the ideas are dated, they make as much sense now as they did then.

Also "Counting for Nothing: What men value and what women are worth" by Marilyn Waring: a feminist analysis of the masculine field of economics. How women's work is devalued and erased whilst "men's" work is seen as central. Again more interesting that I've made it sound, and also a practical application of feminism, which might help clarify things for him.

By BecauseImWorthIt Sun 14-Mar-10 16:17:29
blinder - I have no suggestions of my own in terms of 'serious' texts, but I can recommend the writing of Marge Piercy, especially 'Braided Lives' - a wonderful novel about a young girl growing up and learning about the world.

By BettyButterknife Sun 14-Mar-10 18:00:02
There was an interesting article by Charlotte Raven in last Saturday's Guardian here which talks about how feminism lost its way in the 90s and the results now, and touches on the concept of choice. She also mentions a couple of books, current and classic.

This isn't what you've asked for, but you might be interested in this selection of gender equal books for kids for your DD.

By SugarMousePink Sun 14-Mar-10 18:01:04
OP I would second Natasha Walter's "Living Dolls". I've just finished it and it's all about the increasing pressure and hypersexualisation of our current culture. I think your DH would probably find it very interesting as well.

By Habbibu Sun 14-Mar-10 19:15:53
blinder - no idea why people have attacked you. This thread I started on very similar lines, and came away intact, for some reason - huge and useful list which might be of help.

By inveteratenamechanger Sun 14-Mar-10 19:44:41
This is an early feminist essay on housework which I think is great.

By SkaterGrrrrl Sun 14-Mar-10 20:13:59
Non Fiction:

The Beauty Myth

The Feminine Mystique

Fiction:

The Home Maker

The Penelopiad

By SkaterGrrrrl Sun 14-Mar-10 20:50:51
OP, here are some useful websites for you / DH to look at.

www.object.org.uk

www.pinkstinks.co.uk

By SkaterGrrrrl Sun 14-Mar-10 21:13:36
Blinder this website is also great: Contemporary UK Feminism

and I've thought of another ace book: A Woman's Place. Its a history of women's place in society from the suffragettes to the 1970s.

It's in short essays, one for each decade so very readable and jam-packed with personal stories and stats. The book demonstrates that when UK society has needed women to be more "masculine" (eg when the government needed factory workers in WWI), women were told "You can be anything! Dont just sit at home - come and work!". And at other times, such as in the 1950s when men returned from war and wanted their jobs back, governnnet and media messages pushed women back into the domestic sphere. (Oh and it explains that feminists have been called fat & ugly since the suffragettes - so for over 100 years now).

Favourite quote: 'A woman born at the turn of the century could have lived through two periods when it was her moral duty to devote herself, obsessively, to her children; three when it was her duty to society to neglect them; two when it was right to be seductively "feminine"; and three when it was a pressing social obligation to be the reverse.'

By LeQueen Sun 14-Mar-10 23:10:19
Ignore all my previous posts, and can I therefore highly recommend 'The Madwoman In The Attic' which looks at female portrayl through literature.

By polestar Sun 14-Mar-10 23:43:19
I recommend Transforming Men: Changing patterns of dependency and dominance in gender relations by Geoff Dench.

By choosyfloosy Sun 14-Mar-10 23:59:16
I recommend The Prospect Before Her, a history of women in Europe 1500 - 1800 by Olwen Hughes. Wonderful, wonderful read. But I like history more than theory.

And seconding The Feminine Mystique. Which I like especially because of all it has to say on what a burden the construct of femininity was/is, on men as well as women.

By antoinettechigur Mon 15-Mar-10 00:21:14
Years ago I read "Sugar and Spice" by Sue Lees. Need to get it out the attic to be sure if the content fits the bill, but the focus was on feminine identity issues for girls/teenagers. I found it inspiring and after the other thread was thinking of re-reading. Have also heard good things about "Living Dolls".
For a male perspective book, my feminist Dad enjoyed "Stiffed" by Susan Faludi. Maybe more general interest than exactly what you were asking about though.

By ButterPie Mon 15-Mar-10 08:33:05
My DP says "Beauty Myth by Naomi Wolff. Changed my life. And anything by Julie Burchill - you may not agree with her, but she's a refreshingly working class perspective on the whole thing, and writes like a rockstar sings."

He also sent me this quote, which I feel is relevant:

Thursday July 3, 2003
The Guardian

Dear Sir,

There is a short and sharp way to deal with women who say they are not feminists - you could do it as a nationwide census, which might be more representative than the survey of "35 selected individuals". If a woman answers no to the question "Are you a feminist?", she should immediately be stripped of her voting rights, her right to institute divorce, her legal protection from domestic violence and marital rape - oh, and her pay should be cut to 19% less than that of her male colleagues. Then she could lead the carefree, non-ball-breaking life she so desires, and not be forced to take advantage of all those unpleasant and exhausting social gains which those nasty butch feminists in the 20th century forced on her.

When I hear a woman say "I'm not a feminist" I avoid her. Partly because I despise her, but partly because this makes me think that she spends time entertaining furtive fantasies about lesbian sex, and repeats such Stepford Wife clichés merely to put us off the "scent". And as a respectable middle-aged heterosexual monogamist matron from Hove, such closeted, confused suck-ups fill me with horror. For they are neither friends of women or of men; but stunted misanthropists, fearful and envious of the true love and comradeship between the sexes that can only come from simple equality. Let these cowering wretches embrace the state of allegedly longed-for slavery that existed before modern feminism, and see if they like it; it could even be a reality TV show. It'd be a total hoot!

Julie Burchill
Brighton

By ElephantsAndMiasmas Mon 15-Mar-10 15:47:36
some blogs you might like: Tiger Beatdown

Cruella-Blog

Both of those are very funny and sharp and focus on women in popular culture - Tiger Beatdown did a series of film reviews about a year ago that were brilliant.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 22/03/2010 11:00

wow, blinder !

thanks for typing that lot out !