Introducing my partner to feminism...

[blinder]

On the back of a spate of good feminism threads here lately I am looking for book recommendations to give to my DP as an introduction to a feminist critique of society.

He's not a particularly neanderthal man - he loves Naomi Klein for example - but he's a bit uneducated about the reality facing women today.

We have a six month old daughter and it worries us both that she is being launched into a culture that systematically de-humanises (objectifies) girls. I'm sure he would be willing to explore ways that we can parent her consciously so that she can preserve her identity in the face of damaging cultural norms.

At the same time, I don't want him to feel lectured, blamed or patronised by the book. But I would like him to be able to examine his own investment in male superiority and recognise that he does have many assumptions about women and many blind spots about male privilege.

It's a fine line.

So, books for men, fathers or people new to feminism?

Dittany, great post (16.04). Re: the man-hating thing, all that crap is only coming from one contributor who is, I suspect, a troll. No point in feeding it by continuing to argue with it imo.

But Molesworth, how ever will I get to finish my bingo?

16.04 -- great post, Dittany, and SkaterGrrrrl 16.44 too.

TSH, that doesn't meant that BEE's father was in fact a serial killer, torturer, rapist and necrophiliac, does it? Basing on and incorporating is not at all the same as all the character's thoughts and utterances being actually identical to those of the author.

Well, there's another truism, but none of them support your cause, tbh. Authors are influenced by what they experience - well, duh, frankly. It still does not meant, as you alluded earlier, that an utterance made by a character is the same as an utterance or thought that the author themselves would have had. If you want people to take your points seriously, you'd be far better seeking evidence from outside works of fiction, where interpretation is key, and authors may experiment in creating characters with extreme ideas to tell a story.

Well, TSH, if you're going to complain about truisms, don't use them yourself.

Well this thread has moved on again although the central question still seems to be 'do feminists believe in equality?'

I spent some time today with a close and beloved friend who I really respect and admire. She prefers not to be called a feminist because she loves men, she says. But she agrees that work needs to be done to create equality between the sexes.

She's a feminist through and through in her life but she doesn't identify with the label which she equates with disliking men. It strikes me that a very successful smear campaign against feminism is at fault for this.

Let's rehabilitate the term.

For me feminism means restoring balance to the planet. It also means prioritising community, family and social compassion. It means valuing and respecting women. It means being equal to men and being able to work alongside men for the benefit of everyone. It means calling cultural assumptions into question because they have arisen from an imbalanced, mostly white male, perspective. It means advocating for other women, particularly when they are suffering.

There's not really any hatred in my interpretation of feminism.

That's a subjective and incomplete list. Not every feminist will agree with it of course.

When I say 'create equality between the sexes' I of course mean socially, economically, legally etc.

TSH saying as you think that quote from that particular work of fiction is worthy of so much speculation, and that it in some way represents not only the summary of Dworkin's decades of activism, but indeed, the feminist movement itself, how about you imagine the 'personal experiences' Dworkin must have been drawing on when she wrote it.

Considering that Dworkin was a battered, sexually assaulted women who spent considerable time working as a prostitute, I am completely failing to grasp why you think you have the right to take issue with how she explored those issues within a work of fiction that it would appear you haven't even read (or indeed knew existed).

Admit it, when you quoted Dworkin's novel and French's novel (the subject of which I see you are studiously avoiding) you didn't have a clue what you were referring to. This fact was made perfectly obvious by you asking me to 'prove' that you were confusing fact with fiction.

TSH so you distance yourself from a social movement because of the views of some people in that movement. Wouldn't feminism benefit from your presence and comments then? Or have you given up entirely on all feminists? Not being rhetorical btw, genuinely interested to know.

Thank you SugarMousePink.

I am now going to go back and re read your excellent post and reflect on the many sobering issues you eloquently raise.