Introducing my partner to feminism...

[blinder]

On the back of a spate of good feminism threads here lately I am looking for book recommendations to give to my DP as an introduction to a feminist critique of society.

He's not a particularly neanderthal man - he loves Naomi Klein for example - but he's a bit uneducated about the reality facing women today.

We have a six month old daughter and it worries us both that she is being launched into a culture that systematically de-humanises (objectifies) girls. I'm sure he would be willing to explore ways that we can parent her consciously so that she can preserve her identity in the face of damaging cultural norms.

At the same time, I don't want him to feel lectured, blamed or patronised by the book. But I would like him to be able to examine his own investment in male superiority and recognise that he does have many assumptions about women and many blind spots about male privilege.

It's a fine line.

So, books for men, fathers or people new to feminism?

thats fab! honestly whatever! everybodys different right? not worth getting all worked up about it.

Some men are dicks and yes I have met a few and others solid gold and worth having for life.

Personally I like being just that little bit less challenging for my boy and in turn if I feel about something quite strongly, he listens and respects.

Oh TSH, you are a hoot! But as you are unwilling to and/or incapable of entering into a proper, rational discussion about feminism, I'm afraid I can no longer be bothered with you.

Thing is, Ladyspratt, you and I can say that from positions of relative comfort, but for many women that really isn't the case, and yes, I do think that is something to get worked up about. Doesn't mean I can't be happy, have fun and hoard ice-cream, but it does mean that I will get serious about things that I think really matter, even if they don't directly apply to me.

"All this burn the bra crap. "

Or was it ironic?

' there are plenty of men, fictional and non fictional, that have had plenty of shit to spout about how awful women are. many of them far more contemporary than dworkin or solanas' - bloody good point.

That's the point, isn't it, LadyScratt?

Some men are dicks are some aren't, much like women. Feminism isn't down on men, it is just about getting things fair.

Well in that case join a cause and put all your energy into it instead of stuffing mini magnums, particulary if you are not willing to share!! [grin}

Oooops got that wrong I meant

not sure Orm.
If we have to start burning bras can I do it with the tatty ones at the back of the drawer?

I am going home now, enjoy your discussion!

Lots of non feminism love xx

What's with the mini magnums?

Sounds like typical wimmin's ball-breaking emasculation to me.

LadyScratt, you are confusing me.

Sometimes you sound reasonable and interested, sometimes you sound like you are reading from the anti-feminist bingo card.

Confess, confess!

BTW I would imagine that many of the women in here have "joined a cause" or two.

"""TSH I finally understand you! You weren't talking about feminism all along.""

Care to elaborate? "

No. This has been gone into several times on this thread. You didn't listen then, I doubt you will listen now.

Nah, I like them full sized.

Though I do enjoy snapping the chocolate off until the inside is exposed, so..

Now just how do you think I'm going to have the energy to join a cause without the mini magnums, eh? Orm - it's about maintaining blood ice-cream levels evenly over the day.

That's a fairly old view of archaeology. The "prehistoric porn" idea is one of many attached to these artifacts. I haven't come across these atitudes anywhere other than in books on the history of archaeological theory iteself - certainly not in modern archaeological practise and research.

It's sad really, that an entire discipline gets tarred like that.

I am a feminist.

The reason I first stuck my oar in to this thread, is that I found the idea that anyone needed to read a book to be told that they were sexist to be insanely patronising.

That was the implication.

Although to be fair dittany, as came up on the Pepsi thread, men are victims of being represented as a bit rubbish at housework and not be able to operate washing machines. You gotta feel sympathy.

Just to give a little bit of perspective and balance like.

On a serious note, I would like to ask MN if we can have a feminism/women's politics/or summat topic.

I would love a feminism/ women's rights topic.

TheShriekingHarpy - as a feminist who adores her brothers and her lovely husband, can I say that feminism as I understand it aims to free and help men as much as women! Gender stereotypes hurt all of us, men and women. Feminism strives for equality, not for the subjugation of men.

"I am not anti-feminist...women don't have to become lap-dancers do they..?"

DaftPunk that is just breath-takingly naive. Leaving aside that many of these women are trafficked from other countries, let's take an English women with no job and a child to feed. If she has no qualifications and the only thing society values about her in her nice body and she ends up stripping, how much of that is a free choice?

Julie Bindell visited scores of lap dancing clubs and interviewed lap dancers for a report called Profitable Exploits: Lap Dancing in the UK. The dancers she met are not happy women freely selecting a career, but people pressured into doing something demeaning to make ends meet.

?As a former lap dancer (I worked in the industry for 8 years), the most important aspect in this licensing for me is to call a spade a spade. Because when I entered this I thought it was like showgirls dancing on stage providing entertainment. The reality was very different and the way in which women were treated by club owners was appalling. Many women go into the industry being wrongly sold what it is?. Nadine, a woman previously in lap dancing, testifying to the DCMS Select Committee 25.11.08

• Dancers are self employed and therefore have no employment rights. They pay a fee to work in the clubs. The private dance is the only legitimate way for the dancers to make money.

• This study revealed the process in which dancers become more susceptible to requests to sell sex. The lack of employment rights, the experience of accumulating debt, expectations of the customers and fierce competition create a climate where the selling and buying of sex on the premises becomes more likely.

• Men go to lap dancing clubs looking for sexual contact, as evidenced by this former lapdancer, interviewed by Object: ?If a woman?s boyfriend is off to a strip club, she probably imagines it will simply involve him watching another woman take her clothes off. Of course if that same woman knew that her boyfriend was actually going to be allowing a woman to touch him, put her breasts in his face, show him her vagina while she fingered it, maybe even let him finger her, put her face in his crotch, gyrate against him until he came etc, etc . . . suddenly she might not feel so liberal about it?.

I admit there may be a tiny percentage of women who get a job at a very upmarket establishment with good security where they do not feel exploited. But the vast majority work in small grotty clubs where they have to pat the premises to dance there and the punters get away with a great deal of sexual contact. Don't forget that many any of these women are trafficked.

Read the full report here (opens in Pdf)

pay the premises to work there.

Oops other source here:

www.object.org.uk/downloads/LapDance_Testimonial1.doc