Introducing my partner to feminism...

[blinder]

On the back of a spate of good feminism threads here lately I am looking for book recommendations to give to my DP as an introduction to a feminist critique of society.

He's not a particularly neanderthal man - he loves Naomi Klein for example - but he's a bit uneducated about the reality facing women today.

We have a six month old daughter and it worries us both that she is being launched into a culture that systematically de-humanises (objectifies) girls. I'm sure he would be willing to explore ways that we can parent her consciously so that she can preserve her identity in the face of damaging cultural norms.

At the same time, I don't want him to feel lectured, blamed or patronised by the book. But I would like him to be able to examine his own investment in male superiority and recognise that he does have many assumptions about women and many blind spots about male privilege.

It's a fine line.

So, books for men, fathers or people new to feminism?

unless you already have, in which case, yours is a Smirnoff.

I have no idea dp but I probably disagree with you.

well...if women are prepared to dance around a pole naked for men....they can't really complain when men treat them like sex objects can they..?

So...women are responsible for male attitudes.

well I take your point dp.

but you are assuming that the men can't leave of their own accord aren't you? can't they make up their own minds?

well in that case begorrah you absolutely cant have one

(not really, have a gin)

I recommend Transforming Men: Changing patterns of dependency and dominance in gender relations by Geoff Dench.

Dittany;

I didn't slag off feminism, and I didn't insult blinder..

All I did was recommend a book and call her boring....bloody hell...boring isn't an insult...lot's of people would love to be called boring....it's not that bad.

Dp will you please stop calling me boring. Eventually you will bore even yourself. I'm off to bed.

Thanks polestar!

I recommend The Prospect Before Her, a history of women in Europe 1500 - 1800 by Olwen Hughes. Wonderful, wonderful read. But I like history more than theory.

And seconding The Feminine Mystique. Which I like especially because of all it has to say on what a burden the construct of femininity was/is, on men as well as women.

Delightful all the women on here who will take the benefits of feminism then criticise people who regard themselves as feminists.

I was thinking of doing a similar thread because my DP enjoys discussing feminism but we differ on many issues e.g. he buys into the idea of most lapdancers are empowered students.

Anyway, this is about books (isn't it?)

Years ago I read "Sugar and Spice" by Sue Lees. Need to get it out the attic to be sure if the content fits the bill, but the focus was on feminine identity issues for girls/teenagers. I found it inspiring and after the other thread was thinking of re-reading. Have also heard good things about "Living Dolls".
For a male perspective book, my feminist Dad enjoyed "Stiffed" by Susan Faludi. Maybe more general interest than exactly what you were asking about though.

Has half of MN taken drugs or something tonight?

This thread is a disgrace.

Blinder you are being extraordinarily gracious.

Thanks to those who posted about books and links.

TheFallenMadonna - that's my favourite joke!

how about pointing him in the direction of 'Modern Parents', published by Viz.

My DP says "Beauty Myth by Naomi Wolff. Changed my life. And anything by Julie Burchill - you may not agree with her, but she's a refreshingly working class perspective on the whole thing, and writes like a rockstar sings."

He also sent me this quote, which I feel is relevant:

Thursday July 3, 2003
The Guardian

Dear Sir,

There is a short and sharp way to deal with women who say they are not feminists - you could do it as a nationwide census, which might be more representative than the survey of "35 selected individuals". If a woman answers no to the question "Are you a feminist?", she should immediately be stripped of her voting rights, her right to institute divorce, her legal protection from domestic violence and marital rape - oh, and her pay should be cut to 19% less than that of her male colleagues. Then she could lead the carefree, non-ball-breaking life she so desires, and not be forced to take advantage of all those unpleasant and exhausting social gains which those nasty butch feminists in the 20th century forced on her.

When I hear a woman say "I'm not a feminist" I avoid her. Partly because I despise her, but partly because this makes me think that she spends time entertaining furtive fantasies about lesbian sex, and repeats such Stepford Wife clichés merely to put us off the "scent". And as a respectable middle-aged heterosexual monogamist matron from Hove, such closeted, confused suck-ups fill me with horror. For they are neither friends of women or of men; but stunted misanthropists, fearful and envious of the true love and comradeship between the sexes that can only come from simple equality. Let these cowering wretches embrace the state of allegedly longed-for slavery that existed before modern feminism, and see if they like it; it could even be a reality TV show. It'd be a total hoot!

Julie Burchill
Brighton

TheShriekingHarpy
""The OP seems to know about sexism just fine""

Where? I see no acknowledgement of the fact that sexism can affect both genders.

I really don't know why we'd need to discuss this on a thread about Feminism. Unless you're about to deny the decades of institutional sexism against women that still impacts us today, I don't see why we shouldn't be discussing it. Are you threatened by the topic?

I don't want to continue to divert the thread.

I'm with Shriekingharpy on this - equality not feminism!

Same rights for all, same opportunities for all. Sometimes to me, it seems that being equal is not enough for some, that women now have to be somehow "more than equal". Obviously as only women can give birth and bf, there needs to be specific provision around that.

TheShreikingHarpy I'm perfectly aware that MN is unpredictable but I didn't think it was gratuitously nasty and ignorant.

Attacking someone for their views, without offering any useful content, is not being strong minded.

Interesting and pertinent quote ButterPie!

Shrieky

"Secondly, over the course of a lifetime, a female will have gaps in her employment history as a direct result of maternity leave or possibly she may decide to opt for part-time hours. Women tend to strive for a greater, work-family balance and this is usually reflected in a reduction in hours..... So of course, opportunities for advancement in the workplace will be affected, as will pay."

Continuity of employment is not affected by maternity leave, so it wouldn't be a gap in employment as a woman remains employed.

I would really dispute the 98% women on par with men pay wise and would query the criteria used.