life turned upside down

[dawntildusk]

I am really freaked out and need help putting this in perspective.
Here goes.
2 weeks ago a good friend of 25 years told me straight out that my dh (then boyfriend) raped her. It happened 14 years ago. She told me she has no recollection whatsoever of the night leading up to or immediately after the event. She woke up with him in the bed and he was inside her. She shouted at him and he left. Obviously I was shattered, devastated, nauseous, reeling from the shock. I sympathised with her, held her and hugged her and apologised over and over. When I confronted dh he was all the above multiplied by a million. His recollection of the event is this. We were all out drinking for the afternoon at a rugby match followed by the pub and then a club. 16 hours later we went to her house and he was helped to bed(by my brother and me). During the night he got out of our bed, he reckons to go to the bathroom, and climbed back in her bed. He remembers kissing and fondling, he does not deny he may have penetrated her but only "came too" after some kissing and they both realised what was happening at the same time. He left immediately, still really drunk and went back to bed.
I don't know what I am looking for by posting this but the word "rape" for me conjures up much different images than the one described to me. We have been married 12 years and have 4 beautiful children. My dh has been a kind, thoughtful, caring and supportive partner to me and I love him dearly. My friend is single, turning 40 this year and is blaming her recent breakdown on this event. I am so confused and need to know what you think. Is this rape?

Is this rape?

I know someone who was raped age 19 by an ex boyfriend. She told her friends what had happened. How can that possibly be wrong?

imsonottelling, did she go on to report it to the police? were the circumstances similar to our situation. was there any room for his intent to be in question?

No it was a different situation - everyone was sober and she said no. She didn't report it to the police as she knew that they wouldn't be interested.

The principle is the same though - that someone who saw themselves as a rape victim told mutual friends about it. I think that closing down lines of discussion generally would have a net negative effect, surely?

Rest assured though no-one believed her anyway, as he was a "good bloke". I am sure that is how your mutual friends will treat your friends revelations - look at this thread to see the response that they will give. They will say to her, oh dear how awful, and go away thinking she is a hysterical loon. Honestly I am sure that is what will happen. People will not take her seriously, for all the reasons given on here. 14 years, remaining friends, alcohol, drugs issues etc etc etc

"DH has never said he did it"

No. But he hasn't said he didn't do it, has he? Because he doesn't know.

Dittany (our resident Gender Studies undergrad student I think lol) is going to flame me for this...

But I don't really think that what did or did not happen that night one and half decades ago is really that important.

What is important is the wellbeing of all involved right now.

Even if the woman did go the police, I'd be very surpised if it would even make it to court, seriously.

So, she needs help to deal with this.

The OP and her DH need to concentrate on their relationship - if the man has been a good husband and father why throw it all away due to a potential drunken mistake all of those years ago? I think the crux of it, is if the OP still loves her DH and wants to stay with him. Nothing else actually matters. Listen to your gut instinct!!!

For the record, I do not think that what happened was rape, either morally or legally (not the same thing.) It was drunken idiocy, it happens.

All parties need to move on. Lives (including those of children of the OP) should not be destoryed or damaged over a maybe.

Dittany - you are just being pithy and horrible just have some dignity and walk away - you clearly have an agenda all of your own, and agreed about the last paragraph of 13:00.. wtf?

Bowing out because you are obviously now just going to keep on being nasty and whatever your opinion of her h, dawn is an definitely innocent in this and doing her absolute best to cope. Try to be kinder.

OK - friend says she can't remember anything before or after, so I ask again....why do you all assume she was unconscious?? Maybe she acted as if she was consenting. In which case, this is not rape. OP's DH stopped as soon as he was asked to.

I don't necessarily think OW is lying but I think she may be magnifying this incident and making it the "cause" of her subsequent problems which may have far more to do with her own self-destructive lifestyle before and after the incident in question.

In which case, saying she is a rape victim does not help her at all as it stops her from facing up to and taking responsibility for her other problems.

If she went to the police with this they probably would not be interested as by her own admission she can't remember whether she consented or not - only that when she realised what was happening she asked him to stop and he did.

This is not a black and white situation - it is very grey because none of the people concerned was sober and clear-headed enough to remember exactly what happened. That being the case, OW should NOT be telling people she was raped by this man....she may feel violated but how many of us have had consentual sexual encounters we have later regretted and felt "dirty" about? Doesn't mean we were raped.

Dittany - I agree with others who say your tone in this has been overly strident and unhelpful. You clearly have a very strong view on this, but the information we have does not support your position. Whether DH is lying or not is not even the issue....OW remembers almost nothing of what happened that night, so it is very wrong of her to go round accusing DH of raping her. On top of this she seems to have a variety of other problems which are not so vague and maybe should would be better off focusing on these areas of her life where she can take responsibility, rather than using this drunken incident as a reason for not taking responsibility for her choices (and I do not suggest she was responsible for the incident but for her general drink/drugs lifestyle over many years).

Dawn - I wish you all the best with this.

How was the woman a drunken idiot, amber?

Neume lots of people assume she was conscious/consented/it was a mutual "drunken fumble". Why don't you ask them why they are makign that assumption?

I don't know, you tell me ImSoNotTelling Dittany please do not try and educate me on any topic, the recovery processes of rape victims or otherwise, thank you dear.

I just wish everyone involved a speedy recovery and happiness for the future.

It seems to me that all the facts are clear, but people don't like the facts so they're working very hard to extract an interpretation of events which allows the OP to stay in her marriage without being 'married to a rapist' or a mug.

fwiw, I don't think she should end her marriage if this is the only skeleton in his closet and if he's been a good husband to her, but he went into a woman's room and penetrated her while she was asleep.....

A lot of people choosing denial on behalf of the OP I think.

Eh?

"For the record, I do not think that what happened was rape, either morally or legally (not the same thing.) It was drunken idiocy, it happens."

I asked in what way the woman was a drunken idiot.

I don't understand how I can tell you, I was askign you a question as I don't understand that part of your post.

I disagree - she can't remember anything before or after...she may have been asleep, she may have been passed out, or she may have been "awake" but in a drunken haze. In this case she would have seemed conscious to others.

I don't imagine you are suggesting OP's DH was unconscious when he says they "came to" are you...no you are calling him a rapist. No double standard there then.

Facts are clear? That's quite funny, in a sick sort of way.

Nothing is clear, particularly not to a bunch of strangers posting on a message board.

Rape is an emotive topic, hence the emotional responses on here.

It may give you a righteous "buzz" to post them but I cannot see how they are helpful to the OP.

What's unclear?? even the op has to reluctantly but honestly (so well done) admit that her husband penetrated a sleeping woman.

Is there any angle you can give that to make it OK?

sigh, it was a rhetorical question ImsoNottelling. The point being, we do not and cannot know what actually happened on that night. Nor will we, or anybody els in RL or the cyber universe. Hell, even the legal system does not purport to get closer to the truth than "beyond a resonable doubt".

Interesting to see that MN thinks it can do better....

"If the outlet of being able to tell friends and family what has happened is removed, well that just seems like a huge step backwards to me, and the silence of all these women seems a high price to pay for the low rate of false accusations"

What about the price I paid, ISNT? Is my life less valid than a rape victim's? I thought my dad may commit suicide at one point. What if that had happened? My family, my dad, my mum and me were completely, entirely innocent. Why is it OK that a woman with a grudge destroyed our lives?

I deliberately haven't commented on whether I think the OP's DH is innocent or guilty here, because to be honest, I think it's only part of the issue. The fallout could be dreadful for all involved either way...I think the OP has a right to protect herself and her children from that.

Dittany how do you know what every single rape victim needs to recover? Are you psychic? Omnipotent?