life turned upside down

[dawntildusk]

I am really freaked out and need help putting this in perspective.
Here goes.
2 weeks ago a good friend of 25 years told me straight out that my dh (then boyfriend) raped her. It happened 14 years ago. She told me she has no recollection whatsoever of the night leading up to or immediately after the event. She woke up with him in the bed and he was inside her. She shouted at him and he left. Obviously I was shattered, devastated, nauseous, reeling from the shock. I sympathised with her, held her and hugged her and apologised over and over. When I confronted dh he was all the above multiplied by a million. His recollection of the event is this. We were all out drinking for the afternoon at a rugby match followed by the pub and then a club. 16 hours later we went to her house and he was helped to bed(by my brother and me). During the night he got out of our bed, he reckons to go to the bathroom, and climbed back in her bed. He remembers kissing and fondling, he does not deny he may have penetrated her but only "came too" after some kissing and they both realised what was happening at the same time. He left immediately, still really drunk and went back to bed.
I don't know what I am looking for by posting this but the word "rape" for me conjures up much different images than the one described to me. We have been married 12 years and have 4 beautiful children. My dh has been a kind, thoughtful, caring and supportive partner to me and I love him dearly. My friend is single, turning 40 this year and is blaming her recent breakdown on this event. I am so confused and need to know what you think. Is this rape?

Is this rape?

dittany, i really don't see where you are coming from when you say "shutting up the victim". Where have I suggested that i intend on shutting her up? I do think that making an uncorroborated statement about someone to a third party and stating it as fact is unacceptable and I hink that for her sake as well as mine and my family she should be informed of the legal implications of it. not by me but possibly by our mutual friend. Yes, I know she needs to talk about it and has a counsellor and mutual friend to talk to. She can tell anyone she damn well wants to about it but is it necessary to name him whilst doing so?

sorry Dawn - the apology would be in the third person I guess, via your mutual friend.

It's a lot to entrust to a fourth party however...

blinder, it is a huge thing to entrust to a fourth party but luckily our mutual friend would be very capable of doing it , and is willing to. Do you think that it would be a mistake for me to meet with her? she has already expressed dismay to mutual friend that I have not been in touch?

Dawn she does have a moral right to talk about her own life to anyone she chooses. Not sure about the legal position re: slander but I think that if you start focussing on who she tells and what she says, you will be going down a potentially confrontational route, when what is needed is resolution.

She hasn't actually done anything wrong...

Dawn I think that's entirely your call. Do you feel able to meet with her without getting angry / defending your husband?

blinder, tbh I am not sure. I do feel that this discussion has really brought up so many conflicting emotions for me. I am angry. that is for sure, but that anger is directed against dh too. I am angry at him for being such a big f*kig idiot in the first place and getting us into this mess, but I am angry at her too. Not for what happened because I truly believe she in no way brought it on herself but for the aftermath, particulary about telling other people about it before telling me/dh. I hate the thought of not knowing what they were told about my dh, of them forming opinions without the full story.

If you're going to try and get her for slander, then you would need to prove that it is slander, which you can't.

He can't really apologise because he didn't know what he did and didn't do. This is an impossible situation, I feel for you.

Dittany, we will just have too agree to disagree on why he ended up in her bed and not shagging a fridge, my brother ended up climbing into bed with my other brother one night and started rubbing his arse! maybe that means he has latent homosexual, incestual desires or maybe he was so pissed he did not know what he was doing. He dd not penetrate his brother because luckily his victim" woke up. But who knows what would have happened? I am not belittling things here and have reiterated over and over again that I do not believe she is lying. She never wants to see dh again so he will not get an opportunity to apologise but I don't see any other way for him to do it other than tell her how horrified he was when he heard what he did, that he did not realise he had done it and is devastated at the pain it is causing her. Should he not give any explanation at all for his actions?

My brothers were 33 and 35 at the time btw

Dittany, do you really think that women have the right to tell all and sundry they were raped if they feel like it? Without any 'proof' or intention to prosecute?

The OP has the right to consider her children's emotional wellbeing, and her husband's career. It's all very well for us to give our opinions on whether he was guilty or not, but at the moment this man is technically guilty of nothing yet his life (and the lives of his innocent family) could be in tatters.

Dawn, I've hesitated in posting because I've been in a similar situation to yours. My dad was accused of something similar to rape many years ago. I have very little advice for you tbh. 13 years later, my family still hasn't entirely 'got over it'.

It put a huge strain on my parents' marriage, my dad's health, their finances (he lost his business and very nearly their house due to the stress). I ended up in therapy, and still carry emotional scars and have 'trust' issues. (His accuser was a friend of mine).

He didn't do it. I don't want to go into sordid details, but the police/CPS agreed on that, without question.

She moved to another part of the country and lived happily ever after.

I only wish we could have 'shut her up' before she did the damage she did.

If he had been proven guilty, then I'd have had no qualms about her shouting it from the rooftops. But he wasn't.

oh my god abbierodes, that is horrendous. It is the worst possible outcome for you and your family and it is my biggest fear too. Reading your words has made me think that that could be my daughter typing in 20 years. Thankyou for understanding my fear of our lack of control over this situation. It is obvious from your families nightmare that even when the accused is innocent, the fallout is the same. poor poor you.

If I'd been burgled I'd tell people I'd been burgled, but I wouldn't go round accusing someone.

I detest my ex boyfriend. If I said he raped me, no one would be able to prove he didn't. Shouldn't his wife + family be able to protect themselves from someone making false accusations years later? I'm asking this question 'in principle' now, regardless of the ins and outs of the OP's situation.

Dawn, I hope I haven't made you feel worse about it, but I agree, you do need to have some control over the situation if you possibly can. If your friend genuinely believes she was raped, and needs to resolve this, then I understand that, as you seem to yourself. But she needs to understand the effect on you and your children, who are innocent even if he is guilty. Could your mutual frind raise this with her, gently?

He hasn't admitted penetrating her. He most certainly hasn't admitted penetrating her without her consent. All he's admitted to is a drunken fumble. No one knows whether this is a false allegation or not, that's my point.

In answer to your question, I think anyone should be able to discuss a rape, of course. But to name the perpetrator, when discussing it with people who know him, is a different matter.

Abbie is correct Dittany. DH has never said he did it. In his naivity he told me he couldn't remember so could not deny it. maybe he is just too honest for his own good and I will be strongly advise him never to ssy that again as there are people, like you and other posters for example, who chose not to acknowledge that. He never coroborated that part of her story. Just goes to show how careful one has to be when trying to comfort someone, if I had been stupid enough to tell my friend that piece of info it could have been completly misconstrued as it has been here.

dawn, If i were you i'd send the message via the mutual friend that you know she's not lying. that'll mean a lot to her. I think it's an impossible situation to be in. I feel for you. I think for now it'll be enough for her to know that you know and you believe her. Whether or not you split up from your husband is your business though. She can't reasonably demand that you divorce him. You believe her and it's your choice whether or not to stay with him or not.

"She and he are lucky the friend doesn't look like she's planning on reporting it but rather just working it out within her social context"

If it was me, think I would want my DH to have all the benefits of the criminal law including the opportunity to respond to the allegations, and the opportunity to clear one's name.

As it stands, the OP's friend doesn't want to communicate to her DH, but at the same time is discussing the issue with friends, which is outrageous.

Is there any way she would agree with joint counselling? Perhaps with her counsellor? Agree asking a friend to referee is a bit beyond the call of duty, and you need a professional.

ilovemydog, I think the idea of joint counselling is a very good idea. I think it would help to keep us on track with the discussion. I have been looking up counselling services for dh and I to attend here in our local area, I may suggest it to the counsellor as a possible option and see what they make of it.
maggieblu, I have been talking to mutual friend today and she is meeting with friend on tuesday, we are discussing things that mf could initially tell her on my behalf to difuse her hurt and dismay at having had no contact from me yet.

People think that if people are assaulted they should not discuss it?

I can see the reason people are saying this, but given that most people don';t report stuff, talking to friends and family is a valuable outlet. If a person wasn't able to talk to her friends or family about something that happened to her because they knew the person who had done it, surely that will just cause even more suffering.

It has a lot of ramifications actually, thinking about it. People are often persuaded to report offenses by friends and family when they say what has happened. Others may want to warn their friends away from certain people.

Is it really worth all of that, given that the statistices of false reporting are apparently as low as for other crimes?

It does make me feel sad actually. People who have been subjected to sexual assault often have a very hard time facing up to what has happened, blaming themselves, feeling ashamed, feeling that if they tell anyone that they may be judged as a slapper or that they asked for it and so on.

People are trying to change those attitudes to make women understand that when they are attacked it's not their fault, even if they were wearing a short skirt or whatever. Unfortunately many surveys show that people still blame women for being assaulted.

If the outlet of being able to tell friends and family what has happened is removed, well that just seems like a huge step backwards to me, and the silence of all these women seems a high price to pay for the low rate of false accusations.

imsonottelling, Of course people who have been assaulted should discuss it. I have discussed this with you but have I named anybody involved? would it make it any difference to you to know our identities? I think it is very irresponsible of somebody to name a person in a serious allegation like this considering she has NO memory of most of this incident, it was 14 ys ago and there was a huge amount of drink/drugs involved. She did not tell them his name in order to protect them as 3 of them are male!

Agree people need to talk about experiences but if this lady is just saying Tom Jones raped me but not bringing it up to get support by elaborating and talking through her feeling, that isn't fair

This is a horrible situation to be in. I had a similar one, the man in question didn't stop when asked though and I knew immediately I had been raped. I certainly wouldn't and didn't keep his company for one second after that day even though I don't think he is a serial rapist and what he did was a one off (he eventually married an aquaintance) I don't understand why this woman stayed friendly with this man for 14 years.

If there was kissing after penetration I would say that wasn't rape, if no kissing then I would say it is rape but I'm not sure your DP is a rapist though

I hope you both find a way to get through this

thank you scaredoflove and I am so sorry for your situation, just as I am sorry for my friend.