life turned upside down

[dawntildusk]

I am really freaked out and need help putting this in perspective.
Here goes.
2 weeks ago a good friend of 25 years told me straight out that my dh (then boyfriend) raped her. It happened 14 years ago. She told me she has no recollection whatsoever of the night leading up to or immediately after the event. She woke up with him in the bed and he was inside her. She shouted at him and he left. Obviously I was shattered, devastated, nauseous, reeling from the shock. I sympathised with her, held her and hugged her and apologised over and over. When I confronted dh he was all the above multiplied by a million. His recollection of the event is this. We were all out drinking for the afternoon at a rugby match followed by the pub and then a club. 16 hours later we went to her house and he was helped to bed(by my brother and me). During the night he got out of our bed, he reckons to go to the bathroom, and climbed back in her bed. He remembers kissing and fondling, he does not deny he may have penetrated her but only "came too" after some kissing and they both realised what was happening at the same time. He left immediately, still really drunk and went back to bed.
I don't know what I am looking for by posting this but the word "rape" for me conjures up much different images than the one described to me. We have been married 12 years and have 4 beautiful children. My dh has been a kind, thoughtful, caring and supportive partner to me and I love him dearly. My friend is single, turning 40 this year and is blaming her recent breakdown on this event. I am so confused and need to know what you think. Is this rape?

Is this rape?

Part of the problem here is that the OP's friend did not confront the OP's DH. I don't know what he is supposed to do in this situation?

I disagree with you, Dittany that this thread is an exercise in denial. Seems to me that most people are aware of the seriousness of rape, that apologizing is really not on the cards. Rape allegations are only really belong as a criminal issue, however in the meantime, the OP's friend is discussing the issue with their mutual friends. Would she better advised to report it to the police?

I don't think that anyone can say whether it was rape or not, or rather whether the CPS may bring a rape conviction, and am somewhat puzzled how a solicitor can give accurate advice without interviewing the OP's DH?

creepy? Yes, dittany, it's really creepy to suggest a young woman sharing a bed with a man she goes on to marry might well be willing to have sex with him

Obviously I shouldn't have come on this thread. Your posts are winding me up far more than is good for my health, so I'm fucking off now to concentrate on what's important.

Good luck OP, hope you manage to sort this horrible mess out

SGB I disagre. That my example of 15 year old daughter at sleepover being raped by father is spurious. I think it actually provides a very useful benchmark. I am assuming that no one on this thread would chalk it up to experience or dismiss it as one of those things if this had happened to their daughter. What is it about this scenario that makes that reaction acceptable in this scenario? The fact that the woman had been drinking appears to be an issue for many - a worrying approach to start suggesting she was in some way responsible for what happened IMHO.

Has it not occurred to anyone that the reason she doesn't remember anything prior to the man being inside her is because she was in fact asleep. I don't tend to have recollection of things that happen to me whilst asleep.

And the irony of suggesting that she ought to report it to the police when the vast majority of woman on this thread are suggesting she is unbalanced/malicious/mad. No wonder the vast majority of rapes are not reported.

I find the automatic suggestion that the woman is lying both tragic and revolting. Most woman don't lie about being raped. Most rapists do lie about being rapists. That is an opinion borne out of years of professional experience.

The reality is you are extremely unlikely to ever get to the bottom of this and you will have to learn to live with the version of events you choose to accept as best you can. However since you are asking for opinions I have to say that your DH keeping this quiet for so long would ring very loud alarm bells to me.

No, I am 'taking you to task' because of the way you are putting things. I am not the only one who has commented on this.

Others have the same opinion as you and I haven't commented on their posts as they are not so cherry picked, aggravated, confrontational and designed to cause a stir.

Anyway, I have been drawn back in and I didn't want that.
If you only came here with the intention of making a judgement, I think you have made that clearly and could also stay off the thread.

Honestly Dittany, all I would like to see is a little more tenderness in the way you are putting things. I don't have a problem with you having a different opinion, but you do deserve singling out for your manner.

Am hiding now, so apologies for not answering your response.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Dittany's manner.

What she says is painful and hard to take but basically spot on.

And I feel very sympathetic to the OP.

Years ago a man totally out of it on cancer drugs walked out of the local hospice and in through my parents open patio doors. My younger sister was sleeping in the study with a friend on a sleepover and they woke to find him talking to himself. The police were called and I was evetuslly woken some twenty minutes later by the police who were trying to establish exactly what was going on.

Obviously the man was not a rapist and he had no idea what he was doing but had he started to have sex with my sister instead of muttering about putting the cat out would anyone really argue that my sister should shrug it off cos he had no intent?

I really really do not understand this thread at all.

Dittany you've taken a bit of a hammering for answering the OP's question (who has also realised that her friend was indeed raped). I've found your tone direct and no-nonsense but not in any way aggressive I have to say.

I found the suggestions that the friend was lying particularly abhorrent, particularly given that the husband corroborated the core of her story!

It's amazing to me what lengths many women go to to defend perpetrators (even 'unintentional' ones) and attack victims. Absolutely unbelievable.

A couple of earlier posts I have been thinking about.

One person earlier said that if this had happened to them, they would have seen it as a wake up call to moderate their drinking and change their behaviour. That is something I find really miserable. That if a woman is asleep/unconscious in bed, on her own, and a drunk man wanders in and has sex with her, that that is a signal to her to change her behaviour? That is all cockeyed to me.

Also that people in relationships would be happy with this sort of arrangement - and that the man, thinking it was his girlfriend, was in no way acting incorrectly by penetrating the unconscious woman.

No I can understand being woken up by a fumble, kiss, carress, or even something stronger. I cannot imagine being OK with my DH thinking it was fine to mount and shag me while I was unconsious. In general we like to have sex with each other, I don;t think he'd enjoy having sex with me when I was comatose and unresponsive. It's just not very nice is it.

Just can't seem to keep away! Dittany, thank you for your controlled, calm insight. I only wish that you had been as controlled in all your previous posts too. I would be surprised if some of you had read all these posts if you have recently joined as there are so many to trawl through but I would like to reiterate that I never called my friend a liar. Dittany I know you think i did but I beleive that she was penetrated otherwise why would she say it? for the poster who asked why she could remember nothing about it because she was asleep why does she remember anything afterwards, when she was awake? nancydrewrocks please bare in mind that my DH "keeping quiet" about it for 14 years suggests that he kept quiet about raping my friend but all he thought had happened was a drunken fumble and kissing. Yes he should have told me about it, he thought I would finish it with him, but all he thought he was hiding was drunkn kissing, not rape. I do not think he could have lived with himself all these years knowing that. He thought friend was ok with what HE THOUGHT happened. He did not think she was saying "lets forget about it" to rape! He thought she was saying "let's forget about it" to an embarrasing and awkward situation.

Dittany, I see your point but if you felt the need to attack the "obnxious" comments why did yu direct you anger at me? did I make any comments that were obnoxious? please can you tell me how you are so sure he is lying about not remembering? because he is a man?

By the way Dawn - my post about people accusing your friend of lying was not referring to you. You have reported the situation as dispassionately as possible which is to your credit.

As to your friend being worried about your relationship with your DH, that's normal surely if she cares about you. Her assumption that you would end the marriage is no doubt based upon her belief that your DH deliberately had sex with her, thereby committing adultery. I don't think it is unreasonable for her to be very concerned at the fall-out of her revelation.

Most woman who have had a traumatic experience relentlessly question themselves about the extent to which they are to blame. This even takes place in stranger rape. She may be feeling terrible inappropriate guilt. I hope some of the posts here undermining her havent caused further damage to your friendship. Please remember she did nothing wrong. Also, the reports about her talking about this incident are only reports and may not be presenting her in the best light.

Ok I think I'm done. Wishing all three of you a peaceful conclusion to this. Stop smoking!

dawntildusk I do hope that eveyone involved in this situation can find some peace.

most women sheesh

Hi Blinder, yes I am sure she is concerned about the fall-out this has caused and at first I did ot want our mutual friend to discuss any part of our reaction with her. Now I am coming to realise that if it were me that this had happened to, that a close friend of mine had climbed into my bed then I would want to know there was no intent on his part. When I said that she had no recollection of the day/evening I mean she was ot even able to recall if she/he had been drunk or had even been drinking at all. Would it be easier for her if she knew that they were both out of it and that it was not an act committted by a sobre, calculating man?

Can't see why Dittany is getting it in the neck here. I agree with her. That doesn't mean that I don't feel sorry for the OP. But people seem desperate to excuse the man. He was asleep, he was drunk, he was a virgo!

fgs,

Well maybe although there are two issues you might want to consider

1. Be sure that you don't imply that she has somehow 'misinterpreted' her experience because there was drink involved. Don't minimise or try to explain away her own experience, which is valid.

1. If your husband does admit penetrating her without her consent, she may choose to pursue that. Sorry to recommend caution but that is the case.

I think he would need to say the absolute truth though, along the lines of: 'I was more drunk than I have been before or since. I remember being in your bed and fumbling with you. I don't remember anything else but I am desperately sorry for any pain I have caused you.' He must be absolutely honest. She will see through any falsity at all.

If she would be willing to hear this it may help. But she should feel no pressure at all to forgive him and should be given plenty of time to process what he has said. Go at her request, pace and discretion, otherwise she could potentially feel cornered by the apology.

Hope that helps.