Narcissitic Personality Disorder (Part 2)

[Gettingagrip]

Starting another thread for us survivors.

I can see how some of this is happened. Counseller says abut mirroring.Has he mirrored me, or i him ? The overwhelming question, why did i excuse this shit behaviour ?

Answer is, i am capable of this behaviour myself too.I am prone to outbursts when cross and i can be emotionally abusive too.So when ive seen an outburst, witnessed abusive behaviour , i have excused it along the lines of i sometimes explode and im genuineley sorry afterwards and he problably doesnt mean it like i dont.

Some things are unacceptable to me, full stop, other behaviours ive accepted because im guilty of them too. I wonder if hes been my mirror, reflecting back to me the worse aspects of my charecter. Have i infact been dealing with myself ?

Saying that, i am not financially or sexually abusive, but i admit that at times i HAVE been abusive , along with the full set of excuses that goes with it.Had i never had this about me i doubt i would have accepted this in others.

Theres a thousand differant angles to this, and i still ponder them all. I note he is attracted to " not so nice " women . Maybe i was one of them if im being honest. There was a time i had little patience with freinds, family , i was grouchy and moody and completeley self absorbed, although at the time i wasnt aware of it.

Im not sure if being around him made me feel like that, but even if it did, i possess these charecteristics and it was my choice how to behave.

Thats todays ponderings !

I hadn't really given it much thought, but prior to meeting my h I was in a relationship that was becoming physically abusive. My bf worked with my ex h. I ended the relationship with the bf and my ex h was in there lke a shot. I wasn't looking for another bf but how the hell did I end up marrying him 4 months later??

Ex arrived to take the dc out last night. My eldest ds didn't want to go again. We haven't talked much about his Dad recently apart from those initial days after the split where I answered ds's questions honestly about what had gone on. I never spoke with venomosity about his Dad though.
We had a chat at bedtime about why he didn't want to be with his Dad. He told me that he loved his Dad, but didn't like him. He couldn't explain it further so we left it at that.
I'm pretty sure my ex will think I have been putting the knife in - but I really haven't. Having Aspergers means my ds doesn't like change so won't stay over anywhere else. Perhaps he is finding it difficult to maintain a relationship with his Dad outside the safety of his home environment? I still haven't worked out what he meant exactly by 'I don't like him'. But he is 11 now. Perhaps he is seeing his Dad in more real terms.

We are no longer communicating via e mail after our row a couple of weeks back. I gave him examples of how he had been EA to me - he accused me of being abusive to him blah blah, and then told me he would no longer speak to me by email or set foot inside my house again (yippee!)
So I arrived home from the school run today to find a note from the postman to say I'd missed a registered letter. I know it will be from him, he has done this before. He is pissed off because he cannot shout me down into submissivness anymore. I haven't cracked and admitted to being the one at fault in all this and it must be doing his head in - it's not the 'natural order' by which things are supposed to flow for him. I'm part curious and part afraid as to how far he will go to break me on this.

Maggie - the thing I have to keep reminding myself is, that it is normal for a couple to split up when they can't stand each other any more, isn't it?

My ex's anger at my infidelity was festering and growing for years. He made no secret of it!
I talked about our seperating. We had the opportunity to seperate more then once. He kicked me out at one point.
But...it never became a 'real' event. In the end he refused to leave the house and threatened to 'bury me' if I did.

He really did not want to seperate. All those months after our court appearance - the flowers, the Mr considerate and apologetic, lending me his car - were his way of keeping the door open for a way back in.
I wasn't the needy, weak, co-dependent person he told me I was - it was him !

That's the really strange thing, TRM. If you're getting absolutely nothing out of a relationship, why stay? What is in it for these people, having to put up with the likes of us day in, day out, who are so repugnant to them, so undesirable, the cause of so much unhappiness for them? They are absolutely dependent on those who are tied to them.

My ex used to have some sort of dialogue going on in his head, still does as far as I know; he sounded like a broken record occasionally, with his complaints about people he worked with, and his use of terms like 'weak' and 'strong'. However, after several years of seeing a psychiatrist I noticed him checking himself when he started spouting on about his new colleagues all being lazy and feckless, when he finally got a job gasp working for someone else. I suspect he had tried this on the psychiatrist and had been asked to examine his feelings about his coworkers....

Being 'weak' was something he dreaded; you'd think it meant catching leprosy. He wanted more than anything else to be 'strong'. For him this meant not admitting he needed to see a psychiatrist about his depression and other issues, and since his hospitalisation with suicide threats he has more than once accused me of driving him to suicide -- he still can't accept that being 'weak' or 'strong' has nothing to so with his mental health, so someone else has to be blamed if he has been 'weak' as he sees it.

Math&TRM, I think what they get out of the relationship is an outlet for the rage they have to try and hide from the rest of the World.. In the rest of their life they have to be respectful and courteous. It must be so exhausting for them! They feel they surrounded by fools who don't respect them (!)

Controlling and crushing somebody behind closed doors is a valve on the pressure cooker that is their madness, anger and insanity. It is their coping mechanism. So of course they needed us!

My x used to say to me in the first few months after I left that he was giving me 'one last chance' to come back. And that if I didn't come back within ten days, I needn't think he would 'ever take me back'. That deadline would pass and he'd scold me like a bad dog that had run away and 'offer' me another 'last chance' to come back. lol As though living with him were some glorious opportunity that I would regret passing up! He believed it.

MaggieBlack - that is the way my relationship with my H has always been. I am very lucky to be with him and I must win him over and seek his approval (which will never happen as that is impossible and anyway, he has always told me, quite openly, that he does not respect me). He has always 'given me chances' and as soon as I fail, or he cannot control things, he issues threats to me about how he will 'destroy' me in life and I will be in the gutter etc.

It is good to have such a friend in life, isn't it.

And, yes, they need an outlet for their anger as they have to control themselves and put on a good persona to others.

Autumn - do you think that is what is going on with my ex at the moment?
He has provided me with opportunities to take him back, by being 'nice' - and I've ignored.
He has raged at me to accept the blame for being the 'abusive' one - and I've ignored again.
I've ignored his repeated requests to 'clear the air' with a facilitator. Ignored his emails, hand delivered and registered letters, 2 in the morning texts....

I guess he will be feeling as though he has lost control. This has never happened before. Will he want to destroy me now??

TRM, with a bit of luck, he'll find someone else to fill your previous role. I hate to wish that on anyone, but his other alternative is to get serious about therapy, and realistically, what are the chances? Of course, there will always be the children, but children grow up and wise up. Your DS seems to have already made some decisions about his father.

The longer you can ignore him and not get drawn in, the more inclined he will be to drop you and find what he needs elsewhere.

Hello, have been recommended to this thread from this one here. Have read through the first NPD thread and will read this one. I can relate to a lot of what is said here but not sure that my ex is half as bad as some on here so feel I might be here under false pretences.

I split up with exh about three years ago though I think we are still very enmeshed due to the fact that we both thought it very important to parent completely together for the sake of dc.

During the time we were married ex h did the following:

Was repeatedly unfaithful to me, apparently couldn't even go to the off licence without picking some random girl up. He was having an affair when I was 9 months pregnant.
Got us into loads of debt by using all his wages to go out drinking or gambling. When I was away a couple of weekends he let himself into my home and pawned our electrical goods, tv, wii etc. The wii was our son's birthday present btw. He doesn't see that doing this was a problem because he paid for it in the first place and would get the stuff back when he got paid. We were financially ruined by his actions over the years, I was on the verge of having to declare myself bankrupt.
Was verbally and emotionally abusive, often telling me how dirty I was, stupid, bad mother, mad, a bully, controlling.
Never once got up with dc when babies and probably pushed the hoover round once in 8 years of marriage. Did no housework whatsoever. Did like to cook though.

Loads more but more importantly is something I see on all these posts is is total lack of care or empathy towards me. He just did not ever believe that he had done anything wrong. Trying to get him to see the wrongness of his actions actually made me have nervous break down.

He is actually comes across as a funny, nice bloke to others, his family know what he is like but obviously love him anyway and let him get away with it because "thats just how he is".

In spite of all he has done he still expects me to give him lifts to work, lend him money, do his washing etc. He says I am selfish because I won't allow him to live with his dc and won't allow us as a family to be together because i "can't move on". Should anyone be expected to move on after those kind of behaviours. My head tells me no but he seems so sure of himself that I question it.

Is this NPD? This total lack of care and understanding. Well maybe he does understand but just DOES NOT CARE! It is as though I am worthless, just an object who was there to make life easier and has now stopped being useful for the purpose I was designed for. Over the years I have said to him many times that he actually seems affronted and offended by refusal to be treated this way. He actually becomes furious with me if I won't fall into line. The impression I have always had is that he sees me as not good enough for him and I should realise that and know my place and not expect anything more than he is prepared to give, as though I am not worthy of a respectful, equal relationship and why the f*ck don't I realise it!. I tried to live with it I really did but I am just not made that way.

Sorry to go on and on. There is so much more but will leave it there for now. Does this sound like NPD to you or just an abusive twat?

Thanks for reading.

Welcome steel fairy. watch this little clip about dealing with a narcissist. It's good for an npd learner!

at this

What she says about not being able to satisfy an NPD is so true. Satisfaction is inside a person's core.

crap, that didn't work... back in a moment.

I'll try again

is npd

Have you looked at Borderline Personality Disorder too, thesteelfairy2? Apparently it's not as common in men as in women, but I believe my ex has an overlap, more NPD than BPD though. This page has a pretty thorough description of BPD, and this site has a very comprehensive description of a great many disorders.

I hear you loud and clear when you say you tried to live with it but you're just not made that way..

tsf2, I read your other thread. You HAVE to get an access agreement. Does your DS have access to some kind of counsellor who could smooth the transition for him to scheduled visits instead of haphazard dropping in? I know the ex does shift work and all, but really it will be up to him to get his act together if seeing the DCs is in fact his priority, and make the time for them at his regulated hours of access. Having him dropping in on you in a flat with his name on the lease just gives him ideas above his station, IYKWIM. If he has access hours then you regain your turf and he won't have such a hold over you with the dropping in and behaving like he owns the place or has any right to comment the way he did. And a basket of laundry to boot.

Hi all,

My ex narcasist phoned me up to ''apologise'' five years after we had split up. He told me that it had taken him a failed marriage and two kids to realise the damage he had caused.
I can't help thinking that it shouldn't have taken so much.

He then went on about how much he missed his wife. I told him it was karma.

I did get the satsfaction of knowing he was sorry though.

Mabe some narcasists do come round.

Lovely to hear that, Posh! Thanks

Would it be overly cynical of me to wonder whether he was checking out your availability for the role of ego-nurse whilst he suffered a 'down'?

Tsk, Grace!

Dignified:

You're blaming yourself for his awfulness. Don't.

Nice people living with a nasty person don't turn nasty. I'm sure that's not what your counseller meant. You are very down on yourself for your own less than perfect behaviour - do you really think everyone else is so much nicer than yourself? You'd be surprised what horrid things go on in most people's heads, and nearly everyone lets the Inner Bitch out once in a while. The difference is that if you're normal and nice, you try to keep her on a leash, and recognise and apologise for it when you fail. That's part of being human. It doesn't mean you deserve to be treated like a piece of dirt. That is very unhealthy thinking, no doubt exacerbated by years with someone who reinforced it for his own foul purposes. Accept your own faults by all means, because that is how we learn to improve. But also realise that as a human being, you have a right to be treated decently and respectfully, loved for your good qualities, forgiven for your imperfections. You would treat your best friend that way, and rightly so. Be your own best friend.

Dignified. Before I lived with my NPD H, I would rarely swear in life. I would never be reduced to using foul-language against another person. Each time I have completely 'lost the plot' with my H, I have gone into some kind of shock, because that behaviour is so alien to how I am as a person. (I am not saying I am perfect, but I have never been verbally abusive to people in life). But I have ended up retaliating with my H, as well as acting like a demented woman losing her mind.

I have read on many NPD websites that perfectly sane people are reduced to this - so don't be hard on yourself.

If you keep kicking a dog in life, in the end it will bite back!!!!!

And, normal boundaries are subtly and very gradually crossed. So, in my case, you end up with someone forcing sex nastily with you so your self-esteem gets lower and lower because you are not treated like a human-being - it is just for him to exert his 'control'.

I even say 'forcing sex nastily' instead of what it was - rape!

And to think that the reason I got together with my H was because I fancied him something rotten and I seized the opportunity to make my feelings known to him (which was an amazingly brave thing for me to do as I am quite a shy person and I did not want to regret not trying even though I might be rejected).

Now I wish I had been more shy!!!!!!

Come to think of it, my H had asked me for help with a few things before we were boyfriend/girlfriend. Maybe he was checking that I would be a suitable gofor.

My H uses language against me like - I will destroy you. You will be in the gutter. I am going to be an absolute bas.... to you. I am going to be really nasty about money with you in a divorce etc.....But the only thing my H does actually care about - is money. It is the only thing in life that evokes any real emotion from him.

If your ex is like my H, then if he cannot get his own way, then yes, he does want to destroy what he cannot control.

Sorry - that was to therealme in reply to your question yesterday.

Yes Autumn, money is also god to my ex It is the source of power for him. He would regularly 'reward' me for good behaviour with the odd few euro, and then take it back off of me when I did or said something to annoy him.

Interestingly, I retreived the registered letter today from the PO. It was, as suspected, from my ex.
He is giving me 'pemission' (although not sought by me!) to move back to the UK with the kids.

So, I had a think about his letter and remembered what I had learned from the experts on this thread....'What is in it for him?'
I have interpreted it as this;
If I take the dc to the UK he no longer has to find accommodation suitable for their visits.
He can stay at his mothers, rent free, for as long as he wants.
He can pursue his fostering scam without having to mention the Safety Order against him or risk a social worker interviewing me and the kids.
He can reduce maintanence (this was mentioned in his letter as part of the deal) and get to fly over to the UK every week, stating in a hotel - I know this is desirable for him.
He sees the dc for a token few hours a week and then has a night on the tiles in London with accommodation thrown in - and isn't seriously out of pocket.

Oh I know him so well. I know how this situation would appeal to his 'lifestyle choice'. He gets to keep his beloved money and have a trip to the UK every week thrown in for good measure. Whilst at the same time he comes across as sooo reasonable in allowing me to return to my home country, even stating in his letter that 'your wellbeing has always been important to me'.

It's a load of self-serving crap that has been presented in his usual devious, manipulative way.
I'd love to move back home but I need to work out what I am going to gain from this now.