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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Narcissitic Personality Disorder (Part 2)

968 replies

Gettingagrip · 04/03/2010 10:41

Starting another thread for us survivors.

OP posts:
Unlikelyamazonian · 03/04/2010 15:31

I remember now and again (during the first horrendous year after my exh disappeared) having to constantly go back and look at stuff about NPD again. I always found this useful.

Will check in a min and see if the lin k has come up ok.

I am not sure that you should post where you may be meeting on this forum. Not because we don't on here trust each other but just because in case anyone we don't want to, is reading. Could you should cat each other if possible? Only a suggestion. Do let us know if you managed a get-together.

Trm bawling and the sense that 'feelings' are slowly returning and that you are no longer following his cue of running to him, is all very positive. It is very necessary that you go through the process of cutting off from your old self as well as getting over him.

It is quite confusing I think: I felt that I was a particular person when I mas Mrs Arsewipe and married. But in the aftermath of his abandonment of us, I have had to come to terms with the fact that not only was he not the person I thought he was, but also that the old me - Mrs Arsewipe - was not the person I really am. I have had to learn so much in the last two years. I cried a lot for myself as well as for the life and hopes that I had lost (and out of sheer panic and fear about how I would cope!)

You are grieving and lost and myriad things. And I can quite identify with the fact that you have been operating on shock and anger - I operated on the same adrenalin and terror for many months. Then when these physical reactions drop off a bit, as they are bound to do, you enter a new sort of phase - the 'what the feck was all that about and what the hell am I going to do now?' sort of phase.

I found a pic of my exh on facebook two days ago - swigging from a can of beer against the backdrop of clear blue Asian waters and a hot blue sky. He looked tanned and fit. And a complete dk. It's all so very surreal. Still. But slowly your new real life takes shape and becomes less of a weird and frightening experience.

As for him 'moving on' - well be prepared for the fact that he has! Hopefully he has..hopefully he will not turn out to be an N that stalks. Some of them do. He feels very sorry for himself obviously. Poor dear.

Magaly · 03/04/2010 20:49

UA, I feel I have to let you know that a mad internet stalker didn't track us down. But you're right, it was a bit silly perhaps to type that, I should have sent a message through fb.

It was absolutely lovely to finally meet TRM, somehow she was how I imagined she would be, so now that I have met her, I can't believe I only met her this afternoon. Between the two of us we had five children so we wandered around the park and had coffee and then the inevitable "i need the looooooooo" chorus started up! TRM, I'm so glad to have met you and we'll have to arrange a more relaxing coffee when the schooligans are back.

The weather held out just long enough, it started raining when we jumped on a bus. HOpe you all got home safely!

math that song.... I clicked on the bit underneath the images and it gives you the full words. It's a clever song all right. A bit different from the usual boy meets girl.

I'm having a large g&t and i'm going to veg infront of a dvd now.

ItsGraceAgain · 03/04/2010 20:52

I can't find who posted the link to www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html but, my god, THANK YOU!

I'm still reading through it - but this hit me right where I wanted:-

"They can pay attention only to stuff that has them in it. This is not merely a bad habit -- it's a cognitive deficiency. Narcissists pay attention only to themselves and stuff that affects them personally. However, since they don't know what other people are doing, narcissists can't judge what will affect them personally and seem never to learn that when they cause trouble they will get trouble back.

"They won't take other people's feelings into consideration and so they overlook the fact that other people will react with feeling when abused or exploited and that most people get really pissed off by being lied to or lied about."

So: it's like a disability. Like Asperger's in fact. [Grace's ongoing emotional dissonance wrt XH#2 suddenly resolves into clear focus!]

ItsGraceAgain · 03/04/2010 21:06

"That their faces don't show their chronological age is a good sign that they haven't been living real lives with real life's wear and tear on the looks of normal people. The narcissists' years have passed without touching them. Bear in mind that narcissistic adults have had decades of not being in synch with the times or with other people, so that by now they are really out of it."

I have a brother and a sister who look a good 15-20 years younger than they are ... and am now counting my sags & wrinkles as blessed proof that I'm not like them!

Sorry for using this as a diary. I'm assuming I'm alone here.

ItsGraceAgain · 03/04/2010 21:18

TRM and PM:-

"These people are geniuses of "Come closer so I can slap you." Except that's not the way they think about it, if they think about it -- no, they're thinking, "Well, maybe you do really care about me, and, if you really care about me, then maybe you'll help me with this," only by "help" they mean do the whole thing, take total responsibility for it, including protecting and defending them and cleaning up the mess they've already made of it."

D'you think you should stick that on your kitchen wall?
These people are geniuses of "Come closer so I can slap you."

therealme · 03/04/2010 23:32

Hi Magaly, and thank you for that coffee! I forgot to say it at the time - not operating on all cylinders these days..
You and your dc are lovely; and normal, easy to talk to and relaxing to be around. I need to surround myself with normal and chilled out people atm. And the park was full of such people...tourists taking photos, students eating sandwiches and Dads and Mums with crying toddlers.
I've been in that park with my ex and the dc before. But we were always 'on a mission' to do a)feed ducks b)walk c)take photo at location d)have coffee in such n such place.... it was always a planned military expedition, not the relaxed meandering that Magaly and I did. We stopped when the dc wanted to climb a muddy hill and had an adventure squeezing 2 adults, 5 kids and a buggy into a lift. The kind of things that wouldn't have happened with my ex, you know?

It decided to piss down with rain when we were half way down O'Connell Street. We ran into Easons book shop and the dc bought a book each with their pocket money. It was spontanious! I loved it!
Course, this evening I evaporated into my now predictable flood of crying again. But I think I know what I am crying about now. It's like you say UA, it's for the life and hopes that you have lost. I tried hard to remember a kind, loving h that I might have known and was pining for - but couldn't. What I'm actually crying about is the hope that I had that he would be a kind and loving h. The light at the end of the tunnel that never materialised, the picture that I had fixated upon in my mind where I would be able to fix our marriage and we would be able to live happily ever after.

I miss my ex because he was the closest adult to me for many years. I miss the moments of isolated 'sharing' that we had; the fleeting meeting of our minds where we could talk about something that we shared in common, the fact that we had lived the last 18 years together and shared a history.
But. It wasn't real. He was working on a whole different agenda to me.

I did the right thing in ending our marriage. I was finally being true to myself for once. If I'd felt like this though, back when I started my 'appaling truth' thread, then I would have continued to hide my head in the sand deluding myself that my h could be the man I fantasised about, if only I could fix myself. As distraught as I am at the moment though, one thing I am sure about, he will never change; he will continue to believe he is right, justified and victimised. I can't ever go back to that life.

Grace I like your diary entries on here - they are absolutely in the right place.
I'm using this thread in the absense of a therapist at the moment. I think we'll all be relieved when I actually find one

ItsGraceAgain · 04/04/2010 00:01

lol @ you, TRM

How lovely that you & M had a normal wander in the park w/kids!

How fucking sad that you'd forgotten - or been robbed of - that. Did you see an instant lift in DCs' confidence?

I posted on Stately Homes about how much impact this thread is having on me. It's hurting me, and I'm grateful for it ... that isn't a masochistic impulse!! More like the fever that means the infection is leaving you ...
Thank you all. Hope you can put up with a few more diary enties!

UA, of course it was your link.

ItsGraceAgain · 04/04/2010 02:59

Mirrors.

This may possibly turn out to be one of those things that catch you up later - but it's not so massive, and I want to share it.

Throughout my economically-active life (now on semi-permanent hold!), I refurbished/renovated properties in my so-called spare time. I'm a wizard with mirrors: they add light, enhance space and all that stuff. Whenever anyone asks me about why I use "so much glass", I can give them the stats about light multiplication and the psychology of perceived space. Each time I did that, I pictured myself - aged 16/17 - staring at my self in my tiny bedroom mirror, wondering who the hell I was.

I didn't know who, because I was an incarnation and reflection of my parents. As I moved from place to place, my mirror was always my anchor. Tired, sick, sad, hungover, healthy, fit, fat, happy - etc; it told me who I am.

I've been doing more intense reading about NPD, and how "they" need "us" to reflect them back to themselves - or, rather, to reflect their desired self. In consequence, I've finally managed to consolidate my life as 'a mirror for others', with my love of glass and the memory of my little teenage mirror. I have always needed mirrors - the practical kind, made of glass - to remind me that I do exist. Because, without that, I was only somebody else's reflection. My mirror was the closest I came to knowing myself; it was the only mirror I had.

I had to dump a load of stuff when I moved up here. I dumped a lot of mirrors! I still have some, though, and I'm putting them up before this weekend is done. This is not worth 'fighting' - it's helpful. I'm hanging the biggest one over the stairs, where I'll see it, feet to head, every time I pass. It won't reflect any light or enhance any space; it will simply reflect myself back to me. A worthwhile job for a sheet of glass, I feel!

Some people would call it vanity. I call it survival - and now I understand why.

ItsGraceAgain · 04/04/2010 03:09

Oh - and I have a 'talker' on my bathroom mirror. I made it, very carefully, to look like a front-page newspaper headline.
It says "You look nice"

dignified · 04/04/2010 13:08

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba1UFP186F8&feature=related

pinemartina · 04/04/2010 18:21

I just got back from 2 nights in hospital with what turned out to be false labour.2 days in bed in a side room with grey walls and no noise.DC's with fathers.
Lots of time to thinks and read.I read Controlling People by Patricia Evans - have read her others.Also really enjoyed Angels in My Hair by Lorna Byrne.
Also.......
X turned up.
Well,he txtd another long adoring outpouring of fluff.
I replied "In Hospital."
Of course he was wearing a lovely shirt and smelled heavenly.He brought a bag of v expensive morsels and glossy mags.
Bear with me now...Stayed an hour and gave every appearance of being a normal,reasonable grown up who wished to accept responsibility for his irresponsible and uncaring behaviour.Which he explained in the context of being a childish,selfish narcissist.He says he has started a different therapy.He says he wants to exorcise the demon from his soul that has driven him to inflict acts of destruction which he has then blamed on me and that it is unforgivable what he has put dc's through and he doesn't think he should come back but wishes to support and honour me and the baby in way I feel best.
He didn't cry
He didn't "do poor me"
He says he may have to accept that he will now end his days alone ,regretful of his ways but that he intends to ensure we don't suffer at his hands any more.
There was space for me to reply.It was not a monologue.He asked questions and checked out my response.
I was cynical,sarcastic and very unresponsive.

I told him I could not see a way forward for us but that he could of course have contact with the baby by arrangement.
He left.No txts later.
He rang in the morning and offered to give me a lift home.
I was unable to arrange another lift,so I accepted.
He repeated some of the same stuff in the car and says he wants to get "spiritual help".He wants to do this for himself even if all is lost with me.
He didn't ask to come in.He gave me a peck on the cheek and left.
Look,I have not bought into this.I am not under the impression that I got him all wrong.
I did stay firm - I really wanted to cuddle him ,but I didn't do it.
...shout me down... could there be any truth or hope in this...?

pinemartina · 04/04/2010 18:31

He is 58 but could pass for 45......

Magaly · 04/04/2010 18:41

PM, just because he is not 100% bad doesn't mean you owe it to him to believe him, or to give him yet another chance.

That was one of the things I found really hard when I was disconnecting. If I felt that there was even a gram of something good in xn I felt like I had a duty to encourage that droplet of goodness, but that would have been to sacrifice my life and happiness just to blow oxygen onto the newly discovered 1% of his personality which was not totally selfish and bad.

It's all brainwashing. You need more than 1% well-meaning and nice from a partner. You're NOT obliged to give him any more chances. You can tell him that you believe he means it if it wraps the dialogue up quicker, but you are not under any obligation to give him another chance. He can't demand that you believe him. (Although he will try to demand that you believe him).

TRM you're welcome for the coffee. I can't believe that the cups looked so dirty when I took them out of the bag!

dignified · 04/04/2010 18:42

No.
Have heard all this myself, massive apologys , its all his fault , hes sorry ect , but you only have to ask the right kind of questions and the denial , excuses and justifications come pouring out along with the poisenous accusations that THEY are trying to sort things out but your just unable to forget the past arent you. The act is over within minuites.

IF, any of this is true , it will still be true in 6 months and he will break his back to seek help and to get his family back.
Seems odd that just a few days ago he was sending you arseholish texts but today hes seen the error of his ways . Dont fall for it, its an act.

Stinker played this with me even though he had someone else on the go. Tossers.

divingintoeternity · 04/04/2010 18:52

Message withdrawn

divingintoeternity · 04/04/2010 19:03

Message withdrawn

pinemartina · 04/04/2010 19:22

All good stuff,many many thanks
I do mean to keep disconnecting
I can feel a slide though
I think I can maintain it for the dc's....
Not sure how I'll be when baby arrives....
I have to keep holding fast to NPD books,this thread,websites...like they're icons of faith...which I guess they are....

pinemartina · 04/04/2010 19:32

GRACE - My house is FULL of mirrors.Every room and the entire stair well and landing.It freaks out a lot of people.
As a child ,there was only one,for shaving,in the bathroom .No full length.
My mother is NPD,but also has appalling dress sense and couldn't give a stuff how she looks.I've got pretty good at managing her at last.Of course,as far as family go.I am the evil one.......
But reflections and self-validation....
A major part of my healing and self esteem building was starting to care how I looked,then to enjoy it.
I too know myself in the mirror,now.
Survival - celebration and honour - not vanity

pinemartina · 04/04/2010 19:35

And Grace- refurbishing and renovating - that's my thing too.Bringing beauty and value lovingly back to what has been hurt ,broken,spoiled....

therealme · 04/04/2010 21:58

Had this coversation with my ex's sister (whom I've remained in contact with)today;

She previously asked if she could stay over at my house and bring her (out of control) dogs. I have allowed it in the past, sparingly, but told her I would have to put it off for a while as I wasn't in a good place right now.

She text me "I'll see you at my Mam's house over Easter as I've got Easter gifts for the kids"

Me; "You're very kind *, won't be at (mil's). Not doing too good atm and need to stay home with my kids. Hope you understand?"

Her; "Therealme, I was kind enough to get my niece and nephews gifts for Easter. I know you're not well but could you give me an idea when I could see them? If you're going to isolate yourself then not fair I can't see them. I thought of you like a big sister I never had but you're too reclusive and cutting yourself off. I really wanted to be like sisters but you're hard to get to know or close to. If you're happy like that then fine but I'm not getting things for the kids anymore as never see them."

Her, after 30 mins, when I didn't respond as was driving; "I'm giving the clothes and chocolate to (charity shop). Don't want to here from you again. Bye."

Me; "If you are going to punish the children because you are pissed off with me then perhaps it is better you don't see them again either!"

Her; "You are just like all my family. I don't want to see your kids. You are a pain"

Her; "If you are so unwell maybe you shouldn't have them (my dc)"

Her; " I am not doing good either but do you care? You are too wrapped up in yourself to be a friend to me. Saying I can't see them. I am the kindest person you could meet. They won't thank you when they're older. I'm being harrassed by guy downstairs (apartment below) but you don't care or invite us over. Thanks a lot"

This is my disordered sil. She has alienated all her family except her poor mother. Only I continue to call in, do her favours, have her over etc.
She has been the focus of all her family's despair over the years and taken all the negative attention. She displays her disordered personality to the outside world, hence she cannot hold down a job or a relationship at the age of 41. Her brother, my ex, has escaped analysis because of her. He has detached himself from his family and is the first to explain his sisters disordered personality because he has inside knowledge. He reads the theory books. He is the leader of the gang in scapegoating my sil; it keeps her out-casted and him safe from scrutiny.

Just thought I'd share that.

Magaly · 05/04/2010 08:45

WOW. she sounds kind of lacking in empathy herself! From her perspective, without knowing all details, your marriage has just broken down, and yet, she has given you about 25 minutes to get over it. And now you should be 'over it'. Because you can't face his family, you are 'wrapped up in yourself'.

She sounds hard work and the last think you need. It's so dramatic to send the children's gifts to a charity shop because you can't receive them immediately. That little exchange paints a clear picture of her character. I know it's not funny but I had a little chuckle at "I am the kindest person you could meet. [econfused]

Magaly · 05/04/2010 08:48

There!

Unlikelyamazonian · 05/04/2010 09:33

Pm and all, this is quite difficult for me, but, below I have pasted the three 'letters' that my Exh left for me to read on our computer before he stole all our money and flew to Thailand to have plentiful sex and lie his way into a new life. Read them and see that - even if they do reveal in my mind that he was no doubt NPD, he was also able to lie totally in them; he did not intend to go off and kill himself. He had more than 20 thousand quid on him and was living with another woman within a month. He lied his way onto a teaching course and is now scuba diving and enjoying himself all over Thailand.

They are shits. Total mind-bending, cruel, self-obsessed weirdos.

PM, I too buckled in the face of his apparent searing honesty and shame-facedness, his sledf-pity and self-discovery.

I wanted to believe him. But I said he would need to prove it by getting himself into serious therapy and until he had helped himself we could not be together.

He agreed and said that even if our marriage did not work out he intended to get help anyway.

Days/hours later he had taken all our money and got on the plane leaving me pennliess, traumatised and with a newborn.

In his last text to me in November he said 'fuck off and die.'

HTH

The three letters:

Dear UA

I?m not going to defend myself at all; that is not what I need to do in this email. It is clear that I got it wrong, very wrong, plain and simple, at the weekend. Not only in washing the car and thus wasting a precious afternoon together, but also in remaining silent when you needed a response from me. It is obvious that the pattern of behaviour which was so stark in France was at play again ? and I did not have the wherewithal to stop myself sinking into the same mire.

That cannot be anything other than deeply hurtful and disappointing to you. For some time now I?ve been thinking that with ds here we had some hope, that things might be looking up for us. But I can see that is just me trying to positively spin the situation to myself and to you. The reality, of course, is that rarely a day has gone by when I have not proved again and again that I?m not coming up with the goods. My pleas that I work so hard are an irrelevance as I?m hardly alone in that. You yourself have always worked very hard, and still do, and yet you manage to maintain functional relationships.

I?ve thought hard about what happened on Sunday. Perhaps it is worth trying to explain, rather than in any way defend, what I think and feel so that you have a picture of what is going on inside me when I fail so totally to respond normally and in a way that might bring something positive to the situation. First, I think you are partly right in saying that there is some aggression there. Yes, my behaviour is passively aggressive, that is true. Yet that is not the whole picture. The question is, why do I shut down so totally and lack the ability to engage as I should with your legitimate thoughts and feelings? I think the answer to that is that I am torn in two. I oscillate between possible responses, and am so stuck in the middle that I can?t move or respond. One response is definitely anger, yes. Defensive anger. It?s a sort of conditioned response to what you have to say. I feel it burning and rising out of humiliation. I want to defend myself from this perceived attack. And yet that is not the whole picture. Even as I feel that anger and shame I know, in my mind, that this is the wrong response. I know that what you say is right, and that it is wrong of me to respond emotionally in this way. So the other side of what I feel is deep self-criticism, self-hatred almost, an acknowledgement that yet again I have not really thought through how I should behave and what I should be doing. Your reaction to that lack of forethought is perfectly natural ? how could it be any other way ? and I have the intelligence to understand this.

What I don?t have, at least all the time, is the intelligence to bloody well not do it in the first place. To see what was necessary on that sunny afternoon and behave accordingly. I am so angry with myself for this repeated fault, especially as I know its effect is, little by little, to erode your love and respect for me.

So what is that all about then? This lack of forethought? I think that it happens when I just get too wrapped up in my own agenda, when I plan things in a bubble and don?t communicate, when I am just being self-centred. I seem to have written out for myself a script of pain and rejection. I?ve painted you into a corner despite your very considerable efforts to keep loving me and thinking well of me. The awful thing about it is that I do love you, utterly, that I know in you I have a person so precious and wonderful, and yet in spite of myself, because of my self, I squander that pricelessness.

Look, I?ve tried to explain in part what I think about this pattern. I know that really, France was such a disaster that there has to be a question about whether our relationship is able to recover. I caused such a trauma for you that I could not blame you if you found it impossible to discover anew the trust and regard that are vital to a functional marriage. The slightest whiff (and Sunday was a strong whiff) of any return to that pattern of behaviour is bound to open up that wound for you. I want you to know, in the strongest possible terms, that you bear no blame or responsibility at all for this situation and that it is my destructive doing entirely.

The question remains, how to go forward. It cannot really be a question of what I want here. Few would have put up with what you?ve had to put with over the years or even more recently. You have kept the wellbeing of us and our family in mind always, in everything that you have done, in everything you?ve said. You have, I know, always worked so hard for our benefit. I can?t, in my sheer stupidity, say the same of myself. The only thing I will say is that, after reflecting on the various issues that have confronted us, virtually all of which I have given rise to, I have wanted to heal and not hurt. I?ve tried hard to change a lot of things and have had partial success.

It?s only been partial though. It?s not really been enough thus far, not to change the dynamic that sees me sitting there, unresponsive to your need for communication.

The bottom line is do you have the will to let me try and make amends? I wouldn?t blame you if you didn?t, after all that you have suffered at my hands, however little I have meant to hurt you. I have wanted to make you happy, to give you the things that you, and everyone, need from a relationship. But I have much to do to fulfil that desire.

There is ds, of course. I want so much to be a good father to him that it hurts. He has been, for both of us, sheer joy and wonder. I watch you with him and I know that he is what you have always wanted and needed, that he has brought to you the role of motherhood ? something you were simply born for and are brilliant at. It is awe-inspiring, how fantastic you are with him.

Is there any possibility that we could ? that I could ? ensure that we become the close, loving family that he needs? He must have a living, breathing example of rightness to look up to and learn from. You have always given him that, yet in my treatment of you I know that I have not, at least not always (and most significantly, not at crucially important times). Yet I desperately want to make this family work and be functional.

It hinges on your happiness. Could you be happy with us as a unit?

I?ve tried to write things straight in this email. This is really only the first instalment. I know I will want to add more to what I?ve said here. You don?t need to get back to me about it. But thankyou for reading it, and don?t forget that my bottom line is that I love you, and us. However hollow that sounds to you now, it?s true.

Exh

Letter 2:

UA

Over the last couple of days I?ve been thinking a lot about where all this has come from and about the end point that we and I have reached right now. I?ve been researching on the internet to try and make some sense of myself; again. I said to you the other night that I just can?t understand why I am like I am, and that is true to a large extent. I just feel that I am adrift on a sea that is featureless for me. I have a life that is not really of my own making. I?ve behaved almost as if I have no power over my own life or actions.

I have to really go back a long way to get to the source. I?ve been thinking about my childhood, trying to trace the feelings I have and the personality I have. And there are lots of incidents, lots of clues lying about there in the past, though I just don?t know how they all fit together yet. It?s a big landscape and there are lots of factors. I don?t really know where to begin.

Why, for example, do I not have any friends? I never had any real problems making friends at school. I was never friendless then, or at University even. I know that I?ve said to you that I?ve always been fussy about my friends, and to a certain extent that has been true, and yet how do I end up with friends such as A? Sometimes I think that I?ve defined myself so much by my relationships with women that I have just lost contact with my friends as a result. You?ve always been good at keeping in contact with people; I?ve been terrible. As the years have gone on I?ve found it ever harder to make friends; for example when I used to hang out with J I met a lot of people. He had a wide circle of acquaintances and a number of friends. Yet I never really got on with any of them. There was always this double-edged thing going on. On the one hand, I would be paranoid that they thought I was too aloof, too arrogant maybe, or that they simply didn?t like me much and took me a little on sufferance. I was never good at communicating with them just on an ordinary level. On the other hand, I actually think I was aloof, critical and proud. I?d find fault with them. Now, was that a defence on my part, a reaction to their luke-warmness in relation to me? Or was it a causal factor? I just don?t know.

On the other hand, I?ve always been plagued by a niggling worry at the back of my mind that friends such as D for example, would find me out for a fraud somehow, that I wasn?t really good enough. That?s been the case with many others, too numerous to mention.

I?m picking out examples, but they are part of a larger pattern. I start off in my potential friendships really wanting approval, yet end up having critical thoughts about people ? why? To protect myself from rejection? The thing is that I don?t really feel that arrogant in myself. I can?t make sense of it.

And even back to my earliest friendships in primary school, I was weak. I befriended, and was befriended by, inappropriate people, and got into trouble. In turn I caused my parents a lot of anxiety.

One thought I have had is that, looking back to my childhood, this approval/withdrawal pattern is there in my familial relationships, especially with my father, of course. Early on, I reckon I was desperate for his approval, yet when I received all the brickbats and the beatings, I withdrew ? and found that the only way I could manage my feelings was by imagining I was superior. There was that whole tussle with him for years, when I believed him to be ignorant, when I was certain that I had the answers, and he was a (political) ingénue, who didn?t know what was really going on. Have I taken that pattern into my other relationships?

I wonder if I suffer from arrested development, whether the extremity of my relationship with my father ingrained an experience to such a depth that I can?t break out of it.

God, there is so much to consider.

Perhaps that is the source of conflict I described in my last email. I mean, with my emotional reaction of anger at being so misunderstood, at being so unjustly criticised, while at the same time my adult mind recognises the fault in me.

Letter 3:

UA

It?s now Saturday and after last night I get the message very clearly. Why bother beating around the bush? One of the things I?ve been researching in the last few days is a discovery I made quite by accident while desperately searching for some sense on the net. I think I have some, though not all, of the traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. You?re bound to look that up and you?ll see what I mean. In fact, here?s a link with lots of information on it: www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/sdm-iv.html. I can?t quite work out why I have only some of them and not all (for example I don?t fly off the handle ? I make sure you do that), but maybe the answer rests in the fact that I always had to sublimate my anger when dealing with my father as he was unpredictable and violent. He was a strange mix too - showing many of the traits of the disorder, but not always aloof and arrogant; quite the opposite in fact ? with working class people. He had a common touch with them.

Anyway, it?s clear that I make you utterly miserable and of course I can?t blame you for that. I?ve always made people miserable. I don?t know about this personality disorder but I suspect that something?s going on in that area, so it?s not like I can move on and survive a mutually destructive relationship and rebuild my life, because this is not a mutually destructive relationship. In any case, I don?t have a life. I don?t have friends. I don?t have any real empathy; people think (with justification) that I?m weird, including you, who know me pretty well. If you detect a note of self-pity here, you?re dead wrong. I loathe myself, hate myself and want to destroy myself ? and shall. I don?t have any pity for myself at all. I recognise what I am, and you are completely right. It would be selfish in the extreme (and typical of me) to try and wheedle my way back into your affections, to try and smooth things over once more, so I could carry on as normal (normal as in fucked up of course). I really don?t want to do that, because, tragically, I do actually love you, in so far as I am capable of it, and I know full well what a lovely, understanding and caring woman you are. And, as you say so rightly, I am poison to you. By the way, just to reemphasise a point, I think you are wrong when you say we are poison to each other. That?s not right. The simple fact is that I am poison to anyone. I don?t really think you?ve brought anything negative to the table at all. You?re simply a good woman. So please don?t be in the slightest bit self-critical about any of this.

Why not level with each other? What if you?re reading this and saying to yourself ?this is typical of H, he?s just exaggerating; it?s classic behaviour from him as he?s just wallowing in self-pity?? In that case, what you are also saying is that there isn?t anything significantly wrong with me, that it?s a ?little local difficulty? that, in my self-aggrandising way, I?m making out to be much bigger than it actually is. And if you believe that, then why say all those things about me? That I suck you dry, that I?m weird, that I?m abusive, and all the rest of it? Because if you think I?m making a mountain out of a molehill, then you must be the one blowing this out of all proportion, flagellating me, a pretty ordinary bloke with some faults, and putting brine in all the wounds.

Yet you?re not wrong. You?re spot on, because you always have been spot on. You have the answers, not me. I don?t think deeply enough to come up with them.

So here?s what I propose to do. As the houses are in your name it?s not really a problem with splitting the assets as I won?t need them anyway. I want you and Ds to have the best possible chance at happiness. And how can you have that if I?m around at all? Dropping by with my miserable face every other Saturday to pick him up and take him to the park? Do you think I want that, let alone you?

It?s simply absurd to think that any of this will play out okay, except for one solution. And that is for me to just disappear.

divingintoeternity · 05/04/2010 10:07

Message withdrawn

Unlikelyamazonian · 05/04/2010 11:42

Yes, I think they are the letters of a disordered mad-man now. But at the time (PM) they were very very convincing and upsetting and...of course...for months after he had gone and I read and re-read them, I felt I was to blame for not being kinder and believing him at the very end. I thought I had made him run away. He had tried sooo hard and I had rejected him at his most vulnerable blah blah.

I was so wrong.

Fortunately for me, I was able to track him down and suss him out (the internet is a wonderful tool for exposing lies and treachery )

I discovered his exact whereabouts four months after he had gone. He was already living with a Burmese woman in Chiang Mai, had concocted a made-up CV painting himself as a successful UK teacher and journalist, had cheated his way into a job teaching English at a respectable University and in effect, as these Ns do, utterly re-invented himself and wiped his old life with me, his baby son and his two young daughters, totally from his mind. (ie Discarded us)

He had rented a large house, bought himself a big motorbike, taken a scuba diving course and spent all his nights out eating, drinking and carousing with his new 'mates' and 'girlfriend'. Poor bloody woman.

He spent our money doing these things.

My point is, they wear us down, they sabotage and suck dry our normal loving feelings, they head-bend and twist us into knots of self-doubt and self-criticism with their words and proclamations. They change their physical clothes even, to appear to be be the person they think they should be. They are true chameleons.

They are mad, bad and dangerous.

I think my exh has full-blown NPD and knowing what I know now, having read so much about it, it is revealed in those three letters in all its gory detail.

But that does not excuse a thing.

I do not feel an ounce of pity for him.

I thought for a while it was all a 'double-bluff' - ie he was so clever he made up the whole NPD thing to excuse his actions. But actually, if he did, then that is mad and if he didn't, well, abandoning a wife and baby, raiding bank accounts and savings accounts, flying to Thailand to lie and engage in sex with young prostututes, is just as mad.

He told me to fuck off and die in his last text because I had found him out - he, of course, thought he had been very clever and that I would never find him. But I always was a much better journalist than he ever was and he was easy to find in the end.

I could have blown his cover once I knew the level of deceit and seediness to which he has sunk in bangland. But I want him to stay away forever. So I haven't. I throw him the odd nugget to remind him that I Know and because sometimes it makes me feel a bit better.

But the things that makes me feel 100% better now, are loving my son, protecting him, kissing him, making his sandwiches and bathing him, being able to look myself in the eye everyday and know that I am not living a lie, to make a decent if poor living, to hold my friends close and know that I have had one hell of a lucky escape.

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