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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Is it out of order for man to try it on with you when....

381 replies

littlestmummystop · 13/02/2010 15:41

you've explicitly asked him not to.

This has happened to me twice now. I've been on several dates with a guy, he asks or hints to come back to my place saying: 'I'll sleep on the sofa'

When I have let him back I make it clear 'No Sex' but after a kiss and cuddle all of a sudden his exposed knob appears.... and he asks: 'Please please touch it...'

This has happened to my twice now, two different men.

Both times I have refused and gone to bed thinking they've spoilt it. I like to get to know someone really well before I sleep with them and know we're in a relationship etc. I don't want quick hand jobs on my sofa and make that clear before they come back. So why do they do it?

Isn't it disrespectful to still try it on when you've been asked not to?

OP posts:

dittany · 15/02/2010 13:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kaloki · 15/02/2010 14:10

This is true dittany, luckily DP's friends don't ever refer to women like that. I do know how prevalent that attitude is though, the system is fucked. And societies attitude to rape is shocking. Too many of my friends have been victims of rape/attempted rape and have never bothered reporting it because of this.

Original poster

littlestmummystop · 15/02/2010 14:15

I want to make it clear I never felt my security was under threat in either of these situations.

They just put me off the dates in question absolutely instantly and I've not seen either again.

So interesting how women perceive men not as rational human beings but sex beasts who will attack if they are given half the chance.

Men can and should be able to help it.

OP posts:

BrahmsThirdRacket · 15/02/2010 14:24

I agree that there is a culture which prevents rapists being convicted, but a big part of the problem is in the nature of the crime. Essentially, the same act - sex - can be both legal and illegal depending on the motivation behind it and the feelings of the individuals involved, for which there is often no physical evidence. I have just managed to persuade DP, who used to think that it was easy to tell if the rape had actually occured because there would be bruises, that that isn't always the case. I am always surprised that so many people misunderstand the most basic things about sex, usually innocently. I was talking to a work colleague about it, and he said he didn't understand why rape happened. He said if people are that desperate to have sex, then why don't they just go to a prostitute? (another can of worms there) He totally didn't get that rape is about power, not sex.

With any crime, you are going to have guilty people getting away with it. But it is always going to be higher with rape cases because it often comes down to one person's word against another. How can you change the system to make it better? I don't know. You could stop it being tried by jury, because of people's prejudices, but you can't get over the fact that the judge may be prejudiced.

I never bothered reporting either of the things that happened to me. I knew straight away that I couldn't prove anything.

BrahmsThirdRacket · 15/02/2010 14:26

"So interesting how women perceive men not as rational human beings but sex beasts who will attack if they are given half the chance.

Men can and should be able to help it."

Men can always help it. But a lot just don't bother. They would if they thought there was going to be consequences, but such is the world that the worst that can happen is they won't get laid.

Kaloki · 15/02/2010 14:28

"Men can always help it. But a lot just don't bother."

True. However there are comments in this thread from people putting the blame on the OP for essentially leading these men on.

AnyFucker · 15/02/2010 14:29

dittany...did you report what happened to you ?

if you did, how did that turn out ?

LadyBiscuit · 15/02/2010 14:29

It's ironic that not only was that study published today but that the Government also launched a campaign to tell teenage girls that abuse by their boyfriends is not okay and they don't have to put up with it. And that abuse includes sexual abuse.

Given the number of women on this thread who seem to think that you're asking to be raped if you let a boyfriend into your house when you don't want to have sex with him, it's hardly surprising our teenage girls have such shockingly low self esteem is it?

Shame on you women who blame victims of sexual abuse - you let yourselves and the next generation of women down.

KerryMumbles · 15/02/2010 14:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyFucker · 15/02/2010 14:32

the OP, kerry ? noooooo

but the thread has taken on a life of its own (as these tend to do...)

scaredoflove · 15/02/2010 14:41

She wasn't raped and she has said at no time did she feel unsafe, so why has this turned into a rape discussion?

These men were hoping she changed her mind due to their wonderful kissing technique They were knobs but I think it's unfair to now be talking about them as if they were more

Kaloki · 15/02/2010 14:53

"She wasn't raped and she has said at no time did she feel unsafe, so why has this turned into a rape discussion?"

Because the main point of the OP was that she said no and they still tried it.

LadyBiscuit · 15/02/2010 14:54

No she wasn't raped. But the tone of the thread is generally that if you don't want to have sex with a man, you shouldn't invite them back to your house, even if you have previously told them you don't want sex. Because then you only have yourself to blame if they try and push things a bit further.

As far as I can see that's pretty much saying that you cannot expect a man to respect your wishes if you are invite him into your home. How can we expect young women to believe that they are entitled to be alone with their boyfriends and that their boyfriends should respect their wishes about how ?far? they want to go given the consensus of opinion on this thread?

scaredoflove · 15/02/2010 15:03

but I see it as yes, she said no to sex but an exposed willy doesn't only mean sex, that's foreplay/heavy petting (term that makes me want to vomit)

If they were sitting watching tv and he got his knob out, then I'd see it different. He was hoping the kissing would evolve into some fumbling.

I've moved a mans hand to my breast and to my pants before and not expected him to go further.

I think these dates were clumsy and chancers but not lumped in with rapists

Kaloki · 15/02/2010 15:11

"I think these dates were clumsy and chancers but not lumped in with rapists "

That's fair enough, however, what isn't fair enough are the comments on here saying that she was wrong to invite them in and that she was essentially inviting sex despite saying no.

thedollshouse · 15/02/2010 15:12

I haven't read the whole thread so I am sorry if I am repeating things that have already been said.

Why is it not acceptable to invite someone back to your house if you don't want to have sex? Inviting someone back to your home is not giving them a green light.

I invited dh back to my home months before we had sex. I have friends who have invited dates to their homes for dinner but sex has not been on the cards. I don't get it.

Original poster

littlestmummystop · 15/02/2010 15:19

No, neither of these men would or (probably I hope) ever could be rapists...

However, they were really really clumsy and self serving. They were turned on, wanted to go further, frustrated and basically asked me to wank them off, completely 'forgetting' what I had said.

In both cases it was a total turn off, I refused and didn't see them again.

OP posts:

scaredoflove · 15/02/2010 15:24

I agree, no blame on OP or anyone who brings a date home and it is unfair on men and women to say don't bring someone you are dating if you don't want sex. Saying that though, I do think women should be careful taking a stranger home

These men were hoping for more than a kiss, obviously thought they were studs and could change her mind and get a little bit more but and it's a big but, they didn't push it further, she wasn't and didn't feel unsafe and they stopped when asked/told. I just don't think it's fair to lump them in with rapists in this conversation, they weren't rapists, just idiots

dittany · 15/02/2010 16:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dittany · 15/02/2010 16:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyFucker · 15/02/2010 16:08

I did ask brahms, Dittany, just not so directly

sorry, don't mean to push you

Original poster

littlestmummystop · 15/02/2010 16:08

I was about to start a new thread to ask how many people had been raped ( or knew of someone...)

OP posts:

AnyFucker · 15/02/2010 16:10

it would be very long LMS, with a wide variation of experiences (unfortunately)

dittany · 15/02/2010 16:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyFucker · 15/02/2010 16:24

sorry, honestly, wasn't thinking straight, my fingers ran away faster than my brain

you are right

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