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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can you tell if your DH is having, or about to have an affair?

152 replies

loves2walk · 10/02/2010 21:27

I'm worried that my DH may be about to embark on an affair. 6 months ago he confessed to me that he was attracted to a woman he works with. I had been concerned about this woman as they share a love of football, support the same team and sometimes travel to away matches together. I have tried to be cool and supportive about them going to matches but it has made me feel jealous and threatened. I would never have wanted to forbid them going together as I felt he deserved trust and me to be grown-up about their friendship.

But 6 months ago, he went out for drinks after work, it ended up just the 2 of them and they admitted to each other that they were attracted to one another. He then came home and confessed to me, in a very drunken state, that they'd had this conversation but had agreed not to act on it. The day after this confession we went on holiday for 2 weeks and I watched him like a hawk - there was no text or email contact with her and he reassured me it was nothing, and nothing would come of it. So we moved on (though I was hurt and suspicious). But he is now changing. I feel he is much less affectionate with me, he is extremely critical of me and almost nags me about all the things I haven't done in the house. He has started going to the gym 3 times a week, taking more care over his appearance and trying to loose weight and just seems distant with me. I am away next week with the kids, he is alone in the house and I can almost sense that something is going to happen with her. I can't talk to him about my suspicions as he would be defensive, he called me 'pathetic' last time I mentioned I was worried about them. Does this sound like an affair waiting to happen?

OP posts:
countingto10 · 10/02/2010 21:43

Yes sorry, classic detachment phase to allow himself to justify the affair. I'm sure WhenwillIfeelnormal will be along soon.

My DH did this to me only I didn't realise it at the time. I'm not sure how I would have handle it if I understood what was happening. Maybe a good, honest coversation about your fears about him and her, understanding how boundaries can easily crossed, how it is understandable to feel flattered by her attentions etc. Do you have access to his email and mobile phone to have a look. My DH had a second mobile which I found in his work rucksack - I was putting his laptop away to protect it from the DC.

ReneRusso · 10/02/2010 21:49

Yes it does, sorry to say. I think in a loving relationship it should be perfectly ok to talk to him about your fears, and if he is overly defensive in response, then I'm afraid it points to the possibility that he is planning to be unfaithful, or already is being. Being critical of you is another clear sign. He might be feeling guilty for his infidelity and so he finds fault with you, which makes him feel somehow justified in cheating and assuages the guilt. I hope all this is not the case, but I think you are right to be suspicious.

chippychippybangbang · 10/02/2010 21:50

Oh no, I think you're right, from my experience. I don't get why he was telling you though, I can't think that's typical..

Do you need to go away next week? I wouldn't if you can help it. You need to sort this out and confront it before it goes too far. I remember H being desperate for me to go away on summer holidays, I didn't have a clue why at the time, but now it's very clear.

I'd recommend the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass (I think) it's brilliant at explaining exactly this scenario. Maybe you could even show your DH the relevant sections so he can see how cliched all this is..

WhenwillI is the expert on this though..!

loves2walk · 10/02/2010 22:11

This is frightening now. What you've said is making me feel really scared and I appreciate your responses. Maybe i need to take this more seriously - I've been kind of thinking i should let it run it's course, and see what happens, rather than try to prevent something happening. I only want Dh with me if he wants to be with me. Have to turn off my computer as DH is due back from being away. but I feel validated almost in that this is not normal behaviour. Shit and the rest!

OP posts:
glucose · 10/02/2010 22:14

I agree with op, dh is a serial philanderer, defensiveness is always a give away.

heQet · 10/02/2010 22:16

i think i'd be concerned as well. sorry, op.

chippychippybangbang · 10/02/2010 22:21

I'm so sorry. If you don't deal with it and the affair happens though, are you happy to stay with him? It's that serious - take it from me, I'm going through the divorce which resulted from my H acting on a similar impulse.. I hope you can sort this before it starts, please don't ignore it though.

Flightattendant · 10/02/2010 22:23

Oh dear

Yes, I'm afraid this is pretty textbook.

I'm not entirely sure what you can do about it...sounds as though he is in the initial 'thrill' phase - meaning it is at this point an extremely difficult thing for him to do, to break it off...he will be feeling as though a part of him needs this to happen, it is an opportunity he cannot turn down, it's so important...he will probably deny it voraciously and you will be left feeling awful.

This is such a sad situation. I do think talking to him is the only way you stand a chance of preventing it and/or keeping things OK between you two.

He is being utterly selfish. It is NOT your fault in any way. He probably still adores you and needs you. It isn't about you really at all, if it is an affair. They are weird things.

You could ignore it and let him get on with it, then confront him down the line but this could be very damaging, to wait...or you could address it now.
You are going to have to be very brave, I hope you can gather your resources and support from all quarters, and manage to sort this out.

Take care xx

AnyFucker · 10/02/2010 22:24

sorry, OP, but my blood is running cold at the scenario you have given

glucose · 10/02/2010 22:56

flight attendant's advice is good, particularly that its not your fault, it doesnt have to mean your marriage is over

StirlingSmilesNever · 10/02/2010 23:36

Sorry loves2walk but what you have described is my h before the affair started. Weirdly enough, he even told me about the night in the pub/bar when they were the last ones there (workmates had gone home) and she told him how much she wanted him but he promised nothing would happen.

That was a lie.

Plenty happened after that and I think he pretty much regretted telling me about the conversation in the bar too.

I would ask him NOW what his feelings are for this woman and that you feel threatened.

RedbinDippers · 10/02/2010 23:56

Get a solicitor, he's going.

loves2walk · 11/02/2010 10:46

You could all be right. What started this morning as a discussion about the carpenter not making a shelf straight and me paying him despite knowing it was not straight, turned into huge aggression against me, shouting in front of kids, way out of proportion with what I'd done, or not done. He also then raged at DS1 who had nearly tripped up DS2 but still didn't need to be pinned against the wall and treated with force and aggression. All suddenley going out of control.

But I keep thinking why would he have confessed the attraction? Surely that is a mad thing to do if you want to have an affair. And it all went quiet after that and our relationship was fine. I then met the woman concerned for coffee in December as she had recommended a particular farmers market to me, so was quite normal for me to suggest having coffee there together. While there I raised the issue. I thought I was being very grown up now that it had not turned into anything and I wanted to reassure her that it was not awkward between us. Well, in honesty I wanted to see her reaction when I mentioned the 'attraction' to her in person. She was stunned that I'd brought it up, but I said I wanted to clear the air, that he'd told me and that I realised these things happen in marriages and given that it was not going further it was OK and we should all move on. DH was pretty stunned when I told him what I'd said but at that point I think there was nothing going on. We then moved house early jan and it has been odd ever since.
I feel that if I raise suspicions now he will deny it to the hilt. Totally throw it back and me and we will be in for serious confrontation. He told me during row this morning that if I didn't shut up and listen to him without interrupting he would walk out and not come back. So hate that type thing, I don't want to raise this even more contentious issue.
I can't check his email/txt as he has his blackberry locked and with him all time. I almost feel I need him to get on with it so there is evidence and something concrete that he can admit to. I don't want to stay with him if he has an affair, and frankly the way I'm feeling i don't want to stay with him treating me like this in his excitement about possibly having an affair. He will not admit something as he would hate to break up the family. He would see it as failure and he needs us together. Can't stand thought of our 2 boys not having us together.
But he has history - is that relevant? His first marriage ended after 7 years after he had had a 2 year affair with someone at work. Another colleague phoned his wife to tell her. No children involved and during his divorce from wife and separation from affair person, we met 14 yrs ago. But we have children, I can't see why he wouldn't think it best to address whatever needs he has that I must not be meeting, rather than breaking up the family. And we have sex regularly, not that frequently, not thrilling, but it works for us both and it certainly used to be loving and affectionate. Now it feels empty.
Thank you again for your responses. I will get hold of that book and try and calm down this horrid pit of my stomach feeling

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 11/02/2010 10:52

Loves to walk - I'm afraid you are absolutely right - and I'm sorry. This is a horrible phase of affairs, but absolutely textbook, as others say.

This is what I think has happened.

Everything was fine in your marriage - usual stress and strains connected with raising children and building careers etc. but you might tell us that everything seemed fine. You would have said that your H was a good man - although perhaps a bit selfish and lazy - but you had no doubt that he loved you to bits and that you loved him.

Then he meets someone at work and feels something. He marvels that unlike you, she loves football, which is a passion in his life.
He starts to look forward to their conversations - she really seems to "get him". But he doesn't worry that this might "mean something" - after all, nothing's happened and it's not going to. They start to see eachother outside of work, but hey it's football, so it's all fine and in any case, you know about these trips and seem cool about it.

Then they have a few drinks after work and he's suddenly got to confront that his feelings are more than just friendship. There may or may not have been a drunken snog. This terrifies him and he blurts it out to you.

If at this tipping point, he had found some way of severing the friendship, so that this heady intoxication was starved of oxygen, there would have been hope. If you had realised at the time what this really meant - and taken it more seriously and insisted he confronted it properly, there would have been hope. Please though, don't beat yourself up about this - these lessons are always best learned in hindsight and the main responsibility was his.

Instead, he found himself thinking about his friend in a new light. A fundamentally decent bloke, he realises at a conscious level that he has no justification whatsoever for an affair - he's happy with you and he doesn't want to leave you. He loves his kids.

However, at a very subconscious level, he starts to blame you for being an obstacle to something that would feel good. He works hard, doesn't he? This friendship is a beacon of light and fun in a life filled with mundanity and responsibility.

So, in order to give himself permission to cross the line, he starts to reduce your marriage from what it once was. He starts to distance himself from you. He stops making the sort of loving, kind gestures that you've become used to. He starts to "hide away" more, at the gym, in the study on the laptop, at the football [or reading about the football). He starts to become more selfish and lazy - and you react to this.

Instead of accepting responsibility for what is bad behaviour, he counter-attacks and makes you feel like a nag - and as if it's wholly unreasonable to challenge his behaviour. You feel like you're going a bit mad. This isn't conscious behaviour on his part, either. When he looks back, he will be horrified when he realises this was what he was doing.

Eventually - and this might be driven by his friend to a great extent [he still can't allow himself to be the "deciding" adulterer) he submits to an affair. He feels alive and as though all his senses are heightened. But because he's basically a good person, he's crap at compartmentalising the two lives and feels guilt. If you're nice and kind to him, this makes him feel worse, so he ups the ante and behaves in a totally foul manner, to prevent you from loving him. You react with hostility and contempt - and that suits him just fine because he's got the justification to continue with something that makes him feel good.

The deciding factors about where it goes from this point onwards are: his feelings for her, his feelings for you - and the point of your discovery.

If the intoxication with her starts to fade, he will start to see things in her that he overlooked before - the rose-coloured glasses come off and she starts to become an irritant and a problem in his life that he cannot resolve easily. He starts to worry that perhaps this won't end without fallout of some description, and this terrifies him. He starts to display signs of stress. At the same time, he starts to see your good qualities that he had been overlooking for such a long time. He starts the journey back to you. If discovery happens at this point, the prognosis is very good for recovery, as long as he works on himself first.

It's going to be easier if your discovery happens before sex has taken place. Once men consumnate an emotional affair, their responses are much the same as women's in the same situation - it deepens feelings [for only a short time sometimes) and for men, this is the point when they can no longer pretend this is a safe friendship - so the guilt really starts to kick in and their behaviour with their spouses gets markedly worse.

If he's convinced himself that he is "in love" with her, this is the most difficult point [for you and your marriage) for discovery. He has to make a decision at this point - and he will blame you for that.

I would say looking at your post that he is either just at the point of consumnating this relationship, or it's either been going on a for a short while. I don't think it's been going on for the whole six months, FWIW.

If I'm right, you've got to find incontrovertible evidence of what's going on and make your decision based on that. Do not make your decision based on what he's telling you. If he's in an affair that he wants to continue, he will deny it - and if he hasn't yet started one, he will deny that he ever would have crossed the line. He might even believe that himself, but it would be a lie.

To move on, he's got to sever this friendship completely. That must be his very first action. He's then got to start a painful process of working on himself, but that process depends hugely on whether this is pre-affair or mid affair.

You are not going mad - you are absolutely right and trust your instincts above all others. Do not under any circumstances go away next week without him. If you provide the circumstances for what is now an emotional affair, to become a sexual one, your marriage will suffer more. I'm not saying it won't be recoverable, but as I said earlier, sex and emotions are an even headier mix than one or the other.

I would spend the next few hours finding out information, working out what stage this affair is at and then coming to a decision about what to do next, in terms of confronting. He will only admit to what you can prove. If you think it's not sexual yet, I'd start clearing diaries to ensure you spend a block of time together so that you talk this out till you're hoarse. If someone can replace you on that holiday, I would stay home. The kids can have a great half term and you get uninterrupted time.

For this to have happened, do not fall into the trap of thinking it must be the fault of the relationship, or even you. It's very common and it has nothing to do with you, or even your marriage. It is about him.

Take some comfort that perfectly good people can have an affair - friendships can cross the line all the time, but men in particular are useless at realising where that line is and won't admit what they are involved in until things become sexual. Based on the little you've said, there are signs of hope that this man does love you and doesn't want to hurt you, but he is horribly conflicted and in a haze of denial. It is only when everything is out in the open that the denial starts to fade.

BitOfFun · 11/02/2010 11:01

Wow. You should write a book.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 11/02/2010 11:01

Didn't see your most recent post. Now I have, I think he is mid affair.

Previous history entirely relevant. Further good evidence that this is about him and not you or you relationship.

His behaviour is worse than most and so I suspect he is in love, I'm afraid. He's not just trying to weaken your relationship, he's trying to destroy it. He wants you to "sack him".

If I'm right, it really does take a certain type of OW to carry on in the face of a wife who's been really decent, mature and kind. I'll bet she was stunned - she would never have had the courage or the wisdom to do the same thing.

BariatricObama · 11/02/2010 11:03

sorry you are going through this. affair aside. shouting at you and violence towards your children is totally shite and you need to address it.

loves2walk · 11/02/2010 11:18

God i'm spinning with all this. MNs are so supportive to take the time to post and I do appreciate it all but it is doing my head in. We moved areas 2 yrs ago with this new job so i have no old, good friends nearby but some new friends made through school. I'm wondering if I need to talk to one of them and get some face to face help. I am a girlfriend type person and really value female support so should maybe do that as well as other things?
So whenwillifeelnormal - how have you managed to get it so right? what you describe is completely the picture and accurate. But although I'm panicked about this, OK, really panicked, I am fantasising about them having their affair and him leaving the house and it all being calm and peaceful again at home and OK I'm on my own with 2 small kids but atleast we would be in control of our own days and be able to relax. Sure someone will tell me being a single parent is no fun and bloody hard work but must be better to have some self-respect and not be treated like crap. Maybe that's why I'm hiding my head in the sand.

I have to go away next week by the way as we are going to my parents because my dad is ill and they need us there. Also DH is snowed under with work and needs peace to get his ehad down - though maybe this is a lie - maybe the high level of stress he's under is due to this internal conflict and not work at all. I don't know how to get evidence - there is nothing in the house as I've moved/unpacked all boxes myself. There is a mutual friend at DH's work whom I thought of asking - a woman who is so lovely she would be discreet and I know she likes me enough to want to help. Infact we have been trying to arrange a foursome curry night for ages and she has gone really quiet on me, her and her husband work with DH and I'm wondering if she has heard rumours and can't bring herself to make contact with me. But maybe if i assk her directly it would give her permission to tell me what she knows

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 11/02/2010 11:33

When I made my post (after much thought) I knew you would be feeling as though your head was spinning. I'm sorry. Sorry that a lovely woman {and it sounds as though you are) is going through this hell. I also understand that to some extent, you've been hoping and praying that it isn't like it is.

Think carefully about why you "have" to go to your parents. I'm sure you're worried about your Dad's illness - and do you know what? At some point he will blame you for being preoccupied about that, if he isn't doing so already.

Your parents wouldn't dream of asking you to come if they knew what was at stake. Don't put that burden on them. You need help now more than at perhaps any time in your life. This really is a crisis point, I cannot stress it enough. Don't go away. Illness or not, I'd be making arrangements so that the children can be looked after - interruptions will be helpful to him at this stage, but not to you.

Do contact that woman at work. Open your heart to her - it is precisely why she has been avoiding you. The poor woman is probably horribly conflicted and doesn't know what to do for the best. She's probably asked her own friends for advice and been told to butt out - but she may have confronted your H. You need to give her permission to talk - this will salve her conscience no end.

The silent and locked Blackberry is another clue. Get into it by hook or by crook. Work out what the passwords are likely to be. If that fails, invent some reason to borrow it - and watch his face drop and go into a panic of epic proportions.

Your DH is not snowed under with work. That is an excuse. Avoidance of in-laws is another distancing sign.

And I know all this because affairs are like a script - and I recognise and empathise with what you're going through. My discovery would have happened long before it did if someone had told me all this.

loves2walk · 11/02/2010 13:05

he has just phoned to apologise for this morning. He said he is not happy and is sorry for taking it out on us at home. I suggested we should talk about it tonight and he agreed though said he had no idea why he isn't happy so he might have nothing to say.
Maybe this will mean it will all come out in open and we can work through it and maybe prevent him taking things further.

I will try and meet my friend who works with him tomorrow as there is something strange there.

Thanks for advice. Can't believe this 'script' idea about affairs, so consistent and it all sounds just like us - you were spot on whenwillifeelnormal - spooky.
Butterflies have died down enough for me to feel I can have some lunch thankfully as this is exhausting

OP posts:
anothermum92 · 11/02/2010 13:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 11/02/2010 13:25

Okay - here's what to do.

He is not ready for an admission - evidenced by claiming that he doesn't know why he is unhappy. What you will hear tonight is everything but the reason he is stressed. You will get an admission of stress and unhappiness, but you might get infinitely plausible reasons, such as work [I'm so snowed under I can't even come away with you next week). Some of this will be true. He might even be convincing himself that's why he's behaving like he is.

If you decide to confront him with your suspicions, I think you'll get a denial. That denial might be backed up with over-the-top protestations of love for you and the children. This might reassure you temporarily, until you remind yourself that actions apeak louder than words. Sex feels "empty" at the moment - it feels like he's "just not into you".

Recovery is going to be made harder when this all comes out and you realise he lied to you. If you do decide to confront, point that out to him and tell him that you can forgive some things, but not that. Be steely and calm when you say this to him.

If you get the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech, be in no doubt, he is having an affair, he thinks he's in love and he cannot find a way to leave. He might deny there is an OW, but given his disclosure 6 months ago, hopefully he won't think you're that daft.

Before your chat, get on to that Blackberry. Suggest he takes a shower - be suspicious if the phone goes into the shower with him though.

If I had my time again, I'd have snooped before confronting. That's what I think you should do.

If you have your chat tonight and you decide not to confront until you've got proof - if you want this marriage to be saved, you should calmly point out that you will not tolerate behaviour like this morning's episode and will not stand for the children being treated this way. If he's claiming work related stress, insist he gets help.

If you can, be loving and understanding. Tell him you love him deeply - this really will cause his turmoil to deepen and it will make it much harder for him to justify what he's doing.

Do, whatever you do, speak to that work friend tomorrow. Tell her it's a really personal matter and it's urgent. I'll bet she will be shaky and worried, but she will make time to speak to you. Can't you contact her today, before your chat?

imgonnaliveforever · 11/02/2010 13:44

OP, I'm so sorry for your situation. It's a horrible position to be in, but I would speak to your husband. When he first told you about the attraction he obviously had no intention of acting on it, and thought that by telling you he would help himself stay faithful to you. Really he should have gone further and stopped all contact with this woman beyond what is necessary with work. Socialising with her one on one outside work was always going to be a recipe for disaster.

If I were you I would speak to your husband, not just to ask hom about affair but to spell out to hime what is at stake. Say that you are worried that he may do something silly, and is he prepared for where that will take him. If he's infatuated with her, does he remember a time when he felt that way about you? Does he really think that this feeling of infatuation and excitement will last forever? Is he prepared for all the implications of his actions, ie possibly ending a marriage, no longer living with his children, having his children know that he cheated on their mother.

Maybe you could write all this to him if you can't face it in person. Can't say it will definitely work, but maybe this approach will have a more meaningful effect that just accusing him.

Hope things get better

mmmwine · 11/02/2010 13:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chippychippybangbang · 11/02/2010 13:51

Oh God, it's such a script it's uncanny. I could have pretty much written everything whenwillI and loves2walk have said myself. I had the "I'm not happy but I don't know why, maybe it's work blah blah blah" speech. The blackberry did go into the bathroom with him, apparently he played games on it while in there and guess what, he loved me but wasn't "in love" with me.

If I'd had my time again I'd have brought it to a head sooner. Be really firm with him, give him the option to leave now if that's what he wants, and mean it. Don't prolong this awful phase where he hedges his bets between you both, then manages you out of your marriage, that's torturous. And being a single parent is infinitely easier than living with someone who doesn't want to be with you imo.

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