Can you tell if your DH is having, or about to have an affair?

[loves2walk]

I'm worried that my DH may be about to embark on an affair. 6 months ago he confessed to me that he was attracted to a woman he works with. I had been concerned about this woman as they share a love of football, support the same team and sometimes travel to away matches together. I have tried to be cool and supportive about them going to matches but it has made me feel jealous and threatened. I would never have wanted to forbid them going together as I felt he deserved trust and me to be grown-up about their friendship.

But 6 months ago, he went out for drinks after work, it ended up just the 2 of them and they admitted to each other that they were attracted to one another. He then came home and confessed to me, in a very drunken state, that they'd had this conversation but had agreed not to act on it. The day after this confession we went on holiday for 2 weeks and I watched him like a hawk - there was no text or email contact with her and he reassured me it was nothing, and nothing would come of it. So we moved on (though I was hurt and suspicious). But he is now changing. I feel he is much less affectionate with me, he is extremely critical of me and almost nags me about all the things I haven't done in the house. He has started going to the gym 3 times a week, taking more care over his appearance and trying to loose weight and just seems distant with me. I am away next week with the kids, he is alone in the house and I can almost sense that something is going to happen with her. I can't talk to him about my suspicions as he would be defensive, he called me 'pathetic' last time I mentioned I was worried about them. Does this sound like an affair waiting to happen?

at AF telling it exactly how it is!! No sloppy seconds for us if we can help it!

anothermum, that is exactly my experience, even down to the Relate aspect! You just really want to stop anyone else falling for the same trick, it's just a diversionary tactic on their part isn't it?

Potty - I'm assuming by your stance that you were formerly known as Butterballs btw - I just don't understand why you keep coming on to this thread when the problem the OP has got is that she just doesn't know if her H is being unfaithful or not. Maybe when she knows one way or another, she will follow your unusual way of thinking - who knows?

If you are able to tolerate repeated flings in your relationship, it's up to you, but the big difference from what you say is that you know and can therefore make an informed decision. Perhaps if your DP doesn't deceive you when he is involved in one of these relationships, that allows you to tolerate it - I don't know.

It doesn't sound like our OP feels like you at all - and she's dealing with behaviour which, affair or no affair, is causing her pain. For what ever reason tonight, her H is also in pain and distress - all this sounds light years away from your pragmatic "so what?" relationship and I don't think it's helpful.

LovestoWalk - when I read about your H's behaviour since coming home from work, only one thought came into my head: avoidance.

He knew you were going to have a difficult conversation tonight and he's managed to swerve it somewhat, hasn't he? Most people in such distress would cry off from a PTA meeting.

If on the other hand, he really is in turmoil, I wonder whether your friend approached him today, mentioned that she was seeing you tomorrow and he's now shitting himself wondering if she's going to say anything?

I would also sound a note of caution about being diverted down the depression route - although Counting is quite right that depressed people are especially vulnerable to affairs - the feelings an affair induces can briefly jolt the depressed back to life again.

However it is also a common red herring. My DH said he was stressed at work and depressed. He was certainly very down about work and it was causing him some stress, but the far greater stress inducer of an illicit affair and an increasingly demanding and volatile OW wasn't mentioned at all.

Has he gone to bed now claiming that he is just too exhausted/headachey to talk?

Lovestowalk, I had a similiar issue accessing H's blackberry as locked. I discovered he had an affair by looking at his invoice and recognised a pattern of calls made to two numbers and at times when I knew he was walking dog or when I was out(frequency, length of call indicated they were not work related). I felt confident he was and asked what her name was and all was revealed.
I also thought he had been suffering a depression since second child was born.

I hope it isn't true though based on my experience I think, as many others have said, either on the verge or it has begun.

Love2Walk - two further things have struck me from your posts. You said last night I think, that you "had to go as DH was just back from being away" - what does this mean? If you mean a trip of some sort - and within hours of him returning he staged this awful row with you - followed by this turmoil tonight, do you think he was where he said he was when he was away?

Secondly, when he was unfaithful to his first wife, his cover was blown when a colleague from his work phoned his wife. Perhaps he really can see history repeating itself and your friend mentioned she was seeing you today - and he saw his life unravelling again, just as it did all those years ago, only this time it's worse because of the children.

Can you access those Blackberry invoices the last poster referred to? If kept at work, can your friend? Have you checked his car for anything?

Another thing you can consider doing if all these efforts fail, is to get someone to look after the DCs one day - and surprise him for lunch. Go into his workplace and watch people's body language and reactions to you - like a hawk. Colleagues truly hate meeting wives when something like this is going on - and they will avoid eye contact with you, the women will look pitying and a bit terrified, or you will notice a look pass between them.

Yes Whenwill, the stress was significantly worse with an extremely demanding, volatile OW on the scene.

Good luck with the meeting today Loves2walk.

Sweetheart I hope you get through today and find some answers.

It does sound as though he is having some sort of crisis. I really hope you can get the result you want...perhaps it's not too late,
anyway, will be thinking of you x

If he's so stressed out and emotional, he needs to sign off sick and deal with it - I would be insisting on it, for the good of his health and sanity - his reaction to your suggestion, especially if you say there is no way you are going away next week with him in this state, may be very telling.

From someone who has seen first hand how overpoweringly awful work stress can be, it doesn't necessarily mean an affair is about to happen/already happening, it's merely a possibility, albeit a fairly strong one, with his history.

Stress makes people behave appallingly sometimes, 12 months ago we were at a bit of a crisis point, with a total lack of communication and constant arguments, all down to the previous six months worth of DH's work related problems. He was vile to me, I was vile to him until we managed to actually sit down and listen to one another and come to terms with how the other felt.

Ignore the mental ramblings of pottybutnice -
she obviously has zero self esteem to allow her husband to fuck around behind her back, that's not real marriage in any shape or form.

Oh there are some really supportive comments on here and I thank you all for those. Potty - I think whenwilli is right - that the issue for me is this burning need to know what is going on, not whether I can tolerate an affair or not - I can't think that far ahead although I keep playing with thoughts - but until there is some honesty, I can't think straight.

I woke at 5 this morning rehearsing your DH's suggestion whenwilli of asking for access into blackberry and sitting there together going through it. I would so love to do that as it would definately give me the answers one way or another. However, it could get so confrontational as DH is not ready to disclose - that's my feeling - he's terrified of this coming out so would not hand over and would accuse me of being irrational, it would all get heated and I think he would walk out rather than hand over. He would tell me it would be humiliating for him to be spied on that way etc - then he would delete everything, deny everything and it would be too late for evidence. I don't think he would become violent but he can be verbally aggressive and i hate it/fear even that - he is cleverer than me more forceful and would win that sort of confrontation hands down and i'd be left shaken with no answers.

His blackberry is arranged through work - by her actually - so suppose she gets the invoices. I am totally sure my work friend has not told him, they are in different offices but her DH works more closely with my DH so a message could have got through that way. I htink not though.

If I knew what I was facing I am sure this would be easier.

Keep thinking about all this.

The avoidance issue must be it - it worked completely and all DH was met with last night was concern and how can we help you? He didn't want to talk much after the meeeting (except about the meeting which he was happy to describe in detail) so had a large whiskey and watched question time - sort of in a routine that I leave him to watch it alone and I go to bed which I did, so he must have been confident that turning on TV would mean he could avoid further discussion.
I've seen his boarding pass from his trip away - was just a few hours - so I know he went.

He seemed chirpier this morning until he snapped at me because I hadn't thanked him for sorting out a way that I can get a couple of hours in town tomorrow without kids- I've never thought there was a requirement to thank one another for that sort of thing - can see it would have been nice of me but to pick me up on it so immediately is odd.

I also suggested that we should stay next week and not go away. Not surprisingly he thought this not a great idea.

Was there any further discussion after the PTA meeting Loves2Walk? How long did he spend talking to you and did he end the conversation in order to go to bed? How was he this morning, or did he go before you woke?

You know your H best - and I agree it doesn't sound like he's ready for a disclosure, about OW at least.

And what do you think about something having happened while he was away? Is that possible?

Really feel for you atm. I always think the period when you don't know is awful, but actually the period when you had no suspicions at all is in fact the most dangerous time. Afterwards you go through this pointless phase of wishing you'd guessed something earlier, then snooped when you had suspicions etc. etc.

I think with your particular H, you will get no honesty from him directly, so you have to get evidence that even he cannot deny.

Appeal to your friend's better nature today - as a woman - she might be also getting pressure from her H not to say anything.

Loves2walk, I was like you about confrontation which is why when I found the second mobile I didn't deal with it properly.

I think unfortunately until you can get your DH to be completely honest (and I am not sure how you would do this accept to confront him with your views on what is really happening to him ie OW and his internal conflict) I don't think there is a lot you can do other than look after yourself and self esteem.

When my DH was doing this, I actually suggested Relate and he refused, said the marriage was over and he needed his "space" and was leaving (be very aware if your DH says he needs space to get his head straight). He went staight to OW.

I asked my DH last night, what he would have done if I hadn't backed down over the mobile and he says he still would have left but wasn't sure if he would have gone to OW. He stayed with OW for about 6 weeks (until I found out) and the longer he was there the more depressed he got as he was presented with how his life was going to be (eg only seeing the DC occasionally, supporting 2 homes etc). And obviously the longer he was with her, the more her true colours came out.

His affair was the catalyst he needed to turn his life around (he had lots of problems that he had never addressed and had demonised me so much that he thought I was the reason for all his ills). But he did get the "OMG what have I done" when I found out about the other woman.

Why don't you phone Relate, ask him to go with you because you are concerned about the marriage and go on your own if he won't go. You will get support there. I initially booked an appointment for myself as DH was with OW and I was in such a state but in the end he asked to accompany me as he was so shocked by what he had done.

Sorry, cross-posted!

The events of last night don't surprise me at all - yes, he managed to avoid a proper conversation completely didn't he?

Never mind, go back to what I advised you to do if you weren't going to confront and you did just that, didn't you? As I said yesterday, being loving and kind will have made what he's doing even more guilt-ridden - and this is good. Not surprising in the least therefore that he engineered a further argument out of nowhere this morning to get him back into the mental state where he can continue doing this without feeling like such a shit. I hope that's going to make you angry (with him) but that's exactly what he's doing.

Re the boarding pass, he might well have gone, but is it possible he wasn't alone?

And please, do NOT go away next week. Given his reaction, even more so.

Just had a thought - I do have loads of work to do today and am not getting much of it done, and even less as am off to meet this friend in 15 mins - but after seeing her I might just turn up at his office unannounced to 'see how he is'/take him a choc brownie. In the past when I have popped in, I have called in on her to say hello, so may do this also to see her reaction. If he was texting her last night in his state she will be worried about where it is all going. I think I am good at reading non-verbal cues and I'm the person in a position of strength so to speak as I am sure there is something going on, but they don't know that I know. Shit, can't believe am saying/doing all this - I never thought things would get to this point.

I have to go away on sunday. Parents live far away so flights are booked, kids so excited, lots of things planned in for the week and my dad needing support facing cancer. I have to go. My marriage is not my only priority and though it is the central point for our happiness as a family, I cannot let my DH's 'issue' take over normal running of the wider family. Me going away will not be the deciding factor in whether they do or whether they don't shag each other - excuse language, makes me feel even more sick to think they might be making love. They have plenty opportunity during work hours etc and she lives alone and near the office.

I'm writing this on the remote offchance that you can access Mumsnet from your phone. When you go into the office, look to see if either of them are shown as being on leave next week - often there is a whiteboard/leave chart on display, or even a diary/schedule you can browse.

I do understand what you are saying about not wanting to alter your plans and this not being your only priority, but make sure you phone him on the home number when he's "meant to be" home. And if it were me, I might even "surprise him" with an early homecoming, assuming he doesn't know your flight times.

I think that's a brilliant idea. Body language is so difficult to hide/fake. It was the final give away in my situation but i wasn't prepared at that point to believe it.
It's the not knowing that is so difficult to deal with. My ExH convinced me i was going mad and eventually i did start to question my own sanity. It was only when i reached a point of total meltdown, in front of our DD that he finally realised just how much he was hurting me and confessed all.
You are being remarkably strong and calm.I hope you finally get some answers today, you deserve to know the truth. {{Big Hug}}

just want to send big hugs and lots of love to loves2walk, i think the posts above are really helpful.....havent been in your position but have certainly doubted DH at times but given it the benefit of the doubt, good luck for the rest of the day, and keep that strength up. xx

Thinking of you, you sound incredibly strong and level headed, and you'll come through this, whatever today brings.

I never ever caught H out on anything he said, he was incredibly careful to hide everything but his body language as he did things spoke volumes. There are so many clues you pick up on subconsciously, I think you'll know either way once you're back from the office.

Do you have neighbours you get on with? Can anyone keep an eye on the house for you while you're away?? Could you ask a friend to drive by and notice if her car is parked outside maybe?

Well I don't know what to think now. My friend had no clue about anything going on although offered an interesting insight into OW. Apparently she has no boundaries, is inappropriate with other men, my friend felt concerned about her DH and this woman and she completely understood how things could have got out of control. She thought that the admission of attraction was likely to have been started by OW saying it first.

So that's not great but actually not a surprise. She told me i am much sexier and more attractive that OW anyway so that was good to hear!

But she thinks I'm right to be concerned with all background. She thought it could be work stress as things are bad for him and she backed this up but she also thought it sounded too consistent a picture to ignore threat of affair.

I did not go into his work - I had terrible butterflies, thought I would be shaking so couldn't face it. But I have decided to confront hm and just ask ' are you being unfaithful because .....' However when I said this to my friend, she suggested before i do that I spend some time on my own working out what I will do if he has and he admits it. She thinks I need my plan in place to support myself through that possibility so i don't go completely to pieces. She thinks it best I wait to confront him until I have that plan in place in my mind. Would i kick him out? Where would I tell him to go? Where would I go? Who can I phone etc. So that sounds sensible. I may think myself tonight, then confront him tomorrow as we're going out for a saturday evening meal just us 2.

Loves2walk, you have to decide if you genuinely love him and want the marriage to work first. For me I felt I wanted to be able to look my DC in the eye and say I did everything possible to make the marriage work which is why we went to Relate. Obviously a lot depends on your DH and his willingness to try. His willingness to take a good hard look at himself and what he has done and make changes.

I'm sure Whenwill will have some wonderful advice about this, how to act post discovery - I'm sure I made a lot of mistakes which prolonged the agony of it all. I did make my DH pack his stuff in bin bags etc and he did spend a couple of months at his mum's as well why we were working on things.

Good luck - I hope you get some answers.

Glad you updated Loves - I had been so worried about you. Your friend's view is really illuminating. Perhaps she will also idly question her DH as well to see if he knows anything? Also, at least you now have an ally in the camp.

In your shoes, I still wouldn't confront until some other evidence comes to light - I really think he will deny it. If all depends on what you can cope with Loves - and I can see that to an extent, you might want this resolved before you go away, but if it does all come out, you two will need to talk.

I also wanted to say to you that if there is an admission, or a discovery and then an admission, you don't need to make your mind up straight away. You should see what he wants to do - watch whether he does it - and then decide. On discovery, you just need to hear the facts. You do not need to tell him your next steps - and believe me, you will need that thinking time.

So my position on discovery would be: tell me the facts, tell me what you want to do - and when I've heard it all and had all my initial questions answered, I'll get back to you. There might be many more conversations, over weeks or months if necessary, before you say what you want to do. It doesn't have to be an instant decision - and in many ways it shouldn't, either.

Of course it will be worth working out what you can and cannot cope with - that is sensible, but don't let this influence whether you confront or not. Where your friend is spot on is that there's no way of knowing how you will really react if it turns out this is mid-affair, or if he wants to leave you for her. None of us knows, until it happens to us, how this awful thing feels. However, you might need someone to talk to - so have in mind who that will be (as well as us!).

Also, you know your friend - it's not clear how well actually - but I do wonder whether this was the "safest" way for her of warning you. She told you that OW was predatory, she told you that you're right to be concerned, she seems to think he might well be having an affair based on what you've said - and is advising you accordingly. Is that possible?

I would wait to see how he is tonight - first see whether he initiates the conversation that should have happened last night. If he doesn't - and appears to be avoiding it - I'd wait until long after he goes to bed and get to work on that Blackberry, his car and his laptop.

OK sounds good. Have to dash and get DSs from after school club.
Think that is good advice about confronting and discovery. Also agree that maybe too soon to confront as likely to just be denial particularly with us going away. Will not want big drama first.

Not sure about friend. She is going to ask her DH and phone me later tonight. Thanks again all - is huge support

Okay Loves. Cone on later to update, won't you?