Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can you tell if your DH is having, or about to have an affair?

152 replies

loves2walk · 10/02/2010 21:27

I'm worried that my DH may be about to embark on an affair. 6 months ago he confessed to me that he was attracted to a woman he works with. I had been concerned about this woman as they share a love of football, support the same team and sometimes travel to away matches together. I have tried to be cool and supportive about them going to matches but it has made me feel jealous and threatened. I would never have wanted to forbid them going together as I felt he deserved trust and me to be grown-up about their friendship.

But 6 months ago, he went out for drinks after work, it ended up just the 2 of them and they admitted to each other that they were attracted to one another. He then came home and confessed to me, in a very drunken state, that they'd had this conversation but had agreed not to act on it. The day after this confession we went on holiday for 2 weeks and I watched him like a hawk - there was no text or email contact with her and he reassured me it was nothing, and nothing would come of it. So we moved on (though I was hurt and suspicious). But he is now changing. I feel he is much less affectionate with me, he is extremely critical of me and almost nags me about all the things I haven't done in the house. He has started going to the gym 3 times a week, taking more care over his appearance and trying to loose weight and just seems distant with me. I am away next week with the kids, he is alone in the house and I can almost sense that something is going to happen with her. I can't talk to him about my suspicions as he would be defensive, he called me 'pathetic' last time I mentioned I was worried about them. Does this sound like an affair waiting to happen?

OP posts:
ReneRusso · 12/02/2010 18:46

No point confronting unless you have some concrete evidence. Distasteful though it is, I would focus on snooping a bit for the moment.

loves2walk · 12/02/2010 20:16

My friends DH was shocked at the idea of this affair. He backed up though the predatory nature of OW, she is flirty with other married men though he knows of no other admissions of attraction.

He did not think there was anything else in it though - but then to me this doesn't mean much. I do still think my instinct is right - I'm not a person to think this all the time and be jealous. This is the first time in 15yr relationship that I have had this level of worry - any serious level of worry actually. And DH has had dips before, depressions and stress times but never with this pattern of behaviour and lack of affection/withdrawal.

I like the things to say at point of disclosure from whenwilli - if we get to that point I will certainly go through those things then take my time to think what I want. I also think rene is right, that I need more info - if I confront now, as all is calm here, DH just nipped out for takeaway, wine in fridge, seems low but not aggressive or wound up. So too soon, snooping will be my priority over next couple of days. Thanks so much

OP posts:
victoriascrumptious · 12/02/2010 20:34

Men don't usually notice things in the same way that women do-they also disclose less to each other. It's quite likely that your friends DH would be oblivious to this even if it was going on under his nose.

I have a couple of "predatory" type women working with me, the sort who mess around with other womens husbands. However I notice that all these dalliances are short lives and the men are soon chewed up and spat out to return with their tails between their legs

victoriascrumptious · 12/02/2010 20:35

short LIVED

WickedWench · 12/02/2010 20:36

This is particularly devious but might be a snooping option if your DH drives.

Buy a cheap PAYG phone. Charge it, put it on silent and turn vibrate off. Register it with one of those online mobile location tracing companies. Then hide it in his car. If you've got internet access at your parents or on your mobile you can log on see where the car is.

Not much help if she is driving him or he is driving her back to your house (wouldn't he be scared of the neighbours seeing?) but it might show if he is driving to her house at lunchtime or after work.

I'm not sure if any of the mobile trackers let you see the history of movement or if it's just real time.

Even more devious would be if his car shows at her house to ring her landline if you know it - withold number obviously - and then ring his mobile to see if you can hear it ring in the background.

Yes I'm a very devious cow

I hope your friends are right that there isn't more to it.

victoriascrumptious · 12/02/2010 20:37

ooooh clever idea wickedwench!

currycrazy · 12/02/2010 20:39

is there anyone who could sort of "spy" on your DH for you whilst you are away or as extreme as it sounds hire a private investigator?

you sound like a lovely lady btw and i really wish you the best of luck with it all

Coper · 12/02/2010 21:11

I would say don't confront. I had such strong gut feelings and there were so many signs that my H was having an affair. I was so stupid - I confronted on several occassions. I would tell him why I had my suspicions eg a receipt for a meal. He would always have an answer. I REALLY thought I was going mad. He just became more devious. I don't think he would ever have owned up. I finally saw him talking on the phone to her at about 3 am in our garden. He still tried to deny it. I overheard their conversation so I finally knew the truth.
Wicked wench's idea is brilliant. I didn't think of it at the time but it is a great idea. I have just remembered the madness of always hunting for clues. I like you had never been the suspicious or jealous type - so I did wonder if I was going mad. My H even suggested I go to the doctor for something to calm me down. What a bastard.
I hope you discover he is being honest and you do not have to deal with this rubbish for much longer.
Take care.

iloveshoesandbags · 12/02/2010 21:28

Saw an advert on a deals site for a audio bug listening device. £30 max.tv - they have a sim card that you call to listen to conversations in other rooms. Never used them, don't know if they are any good but wondered about how useful it would be to listen in to some conversations in our office - just as a bit of fun for all those silly buggers who go into tea rooms to slag everyone off.
Thought it would be amusing to repeat conversations to them word for word and watch their faces....
Anyway, don't know if any good.
Hope you get sorted. This thread has been really interesting and wish I'd seen it a few years ago....

loves2walk · 13/02/2010 13:31

Still no further on in terms of evidence but have maybe given DH a fright which didn't mean to do as he could go even more underground. His blackberry was in his coat so I tried getting in last night - but it stores the attempts at password tries so I had 4 attempts and it was saying 4/10 tried, 6 remaining - that worried me but am hoping he thought it was DS playing with it - nothing said today anyway. I also tried on computer but don't know his username or passwork. He takes the bus to work so no car to investigate. Just not getting anywhere. And no time really to try phone idea from wicked - liked it though! We have just moved house and so have new neighbours so not much spying potential there and only people I know in this city are his family, so not going to go there, though sure they would love the drama of it. Did think about a private investigator but dismissed that as expensive and crazy. Yes I can see how people have said they thought they were going mad.

Had a thought in the night which felt like a massive revelation and possibly is one people have voiced on here so might not be an original thought from me at all! But the affair if it exists is secondary - the real issue is the state of our marriage and the way we are together. It is far from normal for us to be affectionless, snappy and aggressive so this needs sorting. It may be this is due to an affair but if it isn't it still needs sorting as I don't want to go on with this type of marriage. So I think I will look into Relate while I'm away, phone them perhaps with peace of parents looking after DSs, and start going down this route. Not as a way of flushing something out, though it could have this effect, but as a way of dealing with a marriage which has hit a serious challenge. When I got angry at this situation last night I felt at a bit of a turning point, as though if I continue accepting this I am complicit in this relationship being incomplete, so I have to take responsibility and deal with it.

All really exhausting though and so sad given how we've been so close for so many years. Thought I'd really met and married my soul mate - now he's acting like someone who hates me

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 13/02/2010 22:14

Lovely to hear from you today Loves. Do keep posting, even when there is no news too. It's important you have an outlet for your feelings while you are going through this hellish time.

Well done for attempting to find information. Don't know if it helps at all, but OW in my case had my DH's birthday as her phone PIN - if you don't know it, perhaps your friend could tell you OW's date of birth? I also meant to ask downthread, has he always pin protected his phone, or is this a recent thing?

Any chance you could ask to borrow his phone while you are out and about i.e. "forget" to take yours and invent a requirement for an urgent phone call that must be made? His reaction will be really revealing, especially if he unlocks it for you rather than give you the password - and insists on standing over you while you make that call. Pre-empt this by asking him for the password and making him look secretive by not giving it to you.

This works best in a cafe - that way you can walk out of the cafe while you're on the phone, walk somewhere he cannot find you and spend some time going through the phone. Make sure the DCs are with you in that cafe, that way he cannot walk out to leave them on their own to come and find you, assuming they are young DCs.

Now your friend is on board too, can she find his Blackberry invoices in OW's files? Is OW's mobile number on file anywhere so that it can be cross-matched? Does she have keys to the building so that you can go in with her one night, so that you can find those invoices?

I don't know your marriage Loves - only you have your memory. But you wouldn't believe the number of people whose marriage only started suffering and becoming unhappy after the OW came on the scene. That's why so many men have to engage in the "distancing" phase I mentioned in my first post. Their marriage is actually too good and happy to justify an affair, so they need to reduce it to permit another woman in.

Therefore, I honestly think it might be too soon for Relate. Sadly, there are rather too many Relate therapists who fail to challenge secrets - and if your H is still not up to admitting anything, you might actually end up feeling worse.

I was hugely frustrated by a recent thread where a poster was dealing with admitted infidelity by her husband, suspected it was still continuing and yet the Relate therapist wouldn't discuss the infidelity issues and was advising the poor poster to stop asking questions about it and concentrate instead on "problems in the marriage". A few questions from posters managed to establish that there weren't any problems showing up in the marriage until OW came along - and yet she was barred from discussion, which seemed like madness to us.

Where I think you've hit on something though is that regardless of whether he is having an affair, his behaviour and treatment of you is completely cruel and unacceptable. You can certainly concentrate on that in your discussions with him. It's this behaviour that is actually harder to forgive sometimes than the infidelity - but so many of us have experienced it in varying degrees. Like I said, this is all part of the "script". It might help your sanity and comfort at the moment if you treat this as "not real". You haven't changed as a person, you haven't suddenly become someone who deserves such treatment - you're just going through one of the particularly nasty phases of infidelity.

Counselling only really works when both partners are committed to honesty. Unfortunately, because so many counsellors in this country use a traditionally "neutral" approach that might work with some client problems, this often doesn't work with infidelity issues. Sticking to this neutrality rarely flushes out the secrets people are with-holding and so there is an elephant in the room during each session - and it's often unproductive, because the real issue isn't being addressed i.e. infidelity.

I think too many counsellors also come at this from the perspective that for infidelity to occur, there must have been pre-existing problems in the marriage. Precious few, despite lots of modern evidence to the contrary, operate from the perspective that the problems were created by the infidel and the really big character and personality challenges are with the person who broke their vows.

A counsellor who gets you thinking that this was somehow your fault, or that the marriage must have been rocky, or that you've got to control your suspicious mind, is going to enhance these feelings that you're going mad. Have you got hold of that Shirley Glass book yet? Also, have a look at some of Frank Pittman's work - now he's my kind of psycho-therapist. A good practitioner would also make a lot of your husband's previous infidelity in other relationships.

I recall you said you were out for a meal tonight, so let us know how that goes and what was said.

victoriascrumptious · 13/02/2010 22:26

www.actualspy.com/

mii · 14/02/2010 11:30

I would be asking him why his phone is pin-protected

People with nothing to hide, hide nothing!

fortyplus · 14/02/2010 16:26

I'm not sure I agree with that - it's a simple precaution to have a pin so that no one can use your credit without authorisation. But there would be no reason not to give the pin to dh/dw. So secrecy over a pin is what should ring alarm bells.

loves2walk · 14/02/2010 21:42

Thanks for further comments. The blackberry is going to be so hard to get. It has been locked ever since he got it, with this new job almost 2 yrs ago so not new - but same time as she came on the scene. In the past when I have genuinely needed to use it, like on holiday when I didn't have mine to hand, he has unlocked it then handed it over. On the holiday after disclosure of fancying OW he was twitchy about me having it for long and lurked around to take it back as soon as. He would be so sensitive about me snooping but when I've said this in the past, it's been batted back to me being suspicious and I should trust him more etc. so it causes an argument - he knows I hate arguments so he has an ideal way round this, just to continue being defensive. This weekend, I got onto the computer quickly and his email was up on screen with him in shower. I knew I had minutes only so scanned through recent emails - there must have been 10-20 a day from her to him and back - totally work related, brief and nothing untoward. Then I got to earlier in feb and there was 1 exchange that really turned my stomach - a sort of banter about working late, obviously each at their desk at 6pm ish, each telling the other to switch off and go home in funny teasing way, then final comment her to him was 'look I don't need to know everything anymore, I've got my head round it all now'. That was it then I had to close down, so I was hugely frustrated that I didn't get to read previous days or weeks. Am convinced something is there but also convinced he will deny everything unless there is proof, as you have said whewilli.

We are away now and classic pattern again by sounds of it. We had a good friday evening, funny relaxed few glasses of wine takeaway then saturday was horrid, I was picked up for everything I hadn't done, or not done right, then sat evening fine as watched a film then today really bad again, cross. I said it several times in a nice supportive 'are you OK way' and just got a defensive reaction. But I can understand the need to reduce our previously good, close relationship to this unaffectionate, cranky state to justify his need for someone else. But the way he is with DC is so unnecessary as the issue is with me not them. They are getting treated like crap too - being barked at for minor misdemeanours - have other people found this too? It will make me feel like leaving him if it goes on. The first thing I did after getting to my parents who live in a different city, was to read the property paper. I'm now wondering whether I could get a mortgage or rent a house if this continues.

I can see the problem with Relate. I could see the whole issue being twisted into us both creating this current negative state whereas that is just not the case. The lack of affection would also be re-written as being each switching off from the other and I know I had not switched off, have still not, as I still love DH and still fancy him (well, not person he is being right now but the person he used to be), but he is the one being totally distant.

He is home tonight and was eating when I phoned - I am sure he is alone and feeling sad, he certainly sounded sad and had sent a lovely 'I'll miss you all' text after we left. He gave me some chocolates for valentines day which said 'all your boys love you' which was odd, quite a distant way of expressing a love that might otherwise have just been special to us two, different from our love for each other as parents- but maybe I'm reading too much into that?
Anyway my plan is to call him at work here and there, to check he is at his desk under premise of passing on a bit of news about the DC and then the 7pm bedtime call and then maybe invent a need to call later at 10ish.

I looked for the Glass book on saturday but didn't find it so will again tomorrow. Thanks for ongoing support MNers.

OP posts:
Mumfun · 14/02/2010 22:37

So sorry youre going through this!But the advice youre getting is excellent so keep getting the support!

My DH had affair for 18 months before I found out. He was being very distant and agreed to go to Relate- we went for 10 months WHILE HE WAS STILL HAVING THE AFFAIR - WITHOUT ME KNOWING!

So I wouldnt go near Relate at present unless for yourself. There is no point in going if one party is not absolutely committed to the marriage!

Yes and my H was mean to the kids -very distant from them - they were very stressed by it and upset and it was very sad.

I thought my H was truly depressed. It was only later that I found out the truth - wish Id found out much earlier!

RedLeaves · 15/02/2010 00:12

Loves2walk, I have read this whole thread through and I just wanted to let you know that you are in my thoughts and I wish you all the luck in the world. I hope you can keep strong and have a good support network in RL. Sorry to hear that you have a sick father as well at the moment. xxx

WhenwillIfeelnormal, you've certainly educated me on this subject, I am at your insight. I'm so glad all is better now for you.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 15/02/2010 11:46

Loves - thanks for the update. We really are rooting for you. I hope that despite your Dad's illness, you manage to enjoy your week with the children and GPs. Are you going to mention any of this to them? I'd love to think that you were going to get some mothering yourself this week and some TLC, but will understand if you say nothing too.

The E mails you uncovered are interesting, but not terribly conclusive. I bet you were frustrated at not being able to see more. What it does tell us though is that they are communicating more frequently than most work friends do - and in a tone that suggests a line has been crossed. Any idea what he said in the preceding E mail that caused OW to respond with the "I've got my head around it now" comment?

WRT snappiness and irritation with the DCS, yes, this is absolutely typical behaviour. Our dinner table became a regular battleground during my H's affair and it was horrible. When he discussed this shamefacedly with his counsellor post-affair, she concluded that at a time when his life felt out of control, he had a need to enforce it when he could - and the DCs were the easy target. At some point, this stress starts to leak out into relationships outside the home too - my H started over-reacting to slights at work that he might have previously taken in his stride - and he started having uncharacteristic arguments with people.

I'm glad you're reviewed the Relate option, but I want you to have another think about something now. You are saying that you hate conflicts and that your H will turn perfectly legitimate concerns back on you into you being suspicious and untrusting - that he is verbally dextrous enough to "win" an argument with you. This worries me as a behaviour in its own right, regardless of any affair-related behaviour. One of the things you might like to look at if and when you do repair your relationship, is that this is very controlling behaviour on his part - and quite abusive.

I believe you when you say that in 15 years, you've never had this level of worry. I suspect at some level when this friendship first started with OW, you consciously wanted to be the liberal, mature sort of woman who was perfectly fine about friendships outside of the marriage. You may have thought that jealousy wasn't part of your make-up and that since you trusted your H completely, it was perfectly fine that he had this friendship. Older relatives might have raised an eyebrow at you "allowing" a friendship like this, but you may have laughed gently at their old-fashioned ways.

And yet....at some subconscious level, it didn't feel comfortable. You perhaps tried to suppress those feelings, but they nagged away at you.

When those subconscious feelings turned out to be right after his drunken admission, your instinct was still to be cool and mature, reasoning that it's understandable to feel attracted to others at some point in a long relationship. However, you weren't getting much in the way of information and transparency from your H - and at this point, you allowed your subconscious instincts to come to the fore. At this point, it became "permissible" for you to view the friendship with suspicion, but instead of treating your concerns as the most normal thing in the world, your H responded defensively - and traded on your liberal, pragmatic nature. At some level, he knew that if he kept doing this, because at heart you so wanted to be cool and laid back and in the past have felt completely removed from a jealous harridan, you would revert to what you wanted to be rather than how you are.

I suspect this is why you did a very mature thing in meeting her in December. Even he was shocked at this - and she was even more shocked. This action sat comfortably with your view of yourself as a modern, pragmatic woman and not a hysterical, suspicious mess.

However, what I want to say to you is that you were right to have those nagging instincts - our inner voice is the thing we cannot deny, even if it conflicts with what we want to be. When you've worked through this horrible time in your life, you will accept that the only safe friendships are with people who wish the marriage well and are friends of the marriage.

Let's imagine OW was similarly horrified that her feelings had crossed the line with your H. She's got to keep on working with him, but she really doesn't want to endanger his marriage. She has some options if she feels this way - she could ensure that contact out of work on their own ceases, or if she didn't want to lose the friendship she has come to value, she reasons that the best way of continuing it is to befriend you. When you met her and told her that you knew what had happened, her instinct would perhaps have been initial embarrassment, quickly followed by genuine reassurance that she means no harm. To follow up with trying to build a friendship with you, even taking you into her confidence about girlie things such as dating as a divorcee. She would have done everything to persuade you that she was a friend of your marriage.

It sounds as though, beyond a few necessary interactions when you popped into the office, she did none of that. This is telling in itself.

You've got to the point Loves where you've finally given yourself permission to be rightfully suspicious. This is good - and as I keep saying, trust that memory of yours. That rational, level head will serve you well. You know that you haven't changed, that your marriage was happy until this all started. Even now, in the face of terrible provocation, you can still love.

One of the processes that might help you is to pinpoint a time when you last felt you and your H were at one with eachother - and when you were truly happy. When there were no "inner voices" and he was like the old H, adoring, affectionate, desirous, great with the DCs and sex was joyful and loving. If that timeline shows that this was at any point in the last 2 years after he took that job, there is your answer. Your marriage became unhappy after she came along - not before. Trust yourself on this Loves - many people might try to convince you that this doesn't happen if a marriage is happy, but they are not in your relationship and people have their own agendas for this belief. I'd bet it's OW's belief - it would suit her agenda to think that if your H had been happy, an affair would not have been permissible.

WRT your immediate situation, your account of the weekend just gone is illuminating. He's still managed to avoid the conversation you need to have about his behaviour. The old him might have been really worried that you were so unhappy and would have been making every attempt to try and reassure, even if he was never very good at "feelings" conversations. But the new, deceitful him will do anything to avoid reassuring, discussing or asking for your help to resolve his turmoil. The last thing he wants to do is confront what's going on, so he evades it. He has lost empathy for you and how you are feeling - it doesn't move him at the moment like it once did.

If this goes on without discovery or an admission, the woman you are will finally reject what is happening to her. That process is starting now with your glance at the property pages. He is losing you anyway, regardless of an affair. If you're right and he is terrified of losing his marriage, this is a terrific weapon in your armoury. You calmly stating that you have been giving this much thought and feel you cannot go on like this, might be just the wake-up call he needs. The thought of you living hundreds of miles away with the DCs might be more sobering than you think.

Communicate what is in the open domain. Say that you love him and want to work with him on this marriage, but he doesn't appear to want to meet you half-way on this. That you will not live with cruel treatment, constant conflict and behaviour that is damaging to your DCs. That you have tried over and over again to help - and have asked him to get help, to no avail. He will not engage. That is unacceptable to you and although this makes you very sad - and is not what you want - you will leave this marriage yourself.

loves2walk · 16/02/2010 15:52

Thanks whenwilli for your very long and detailed post. I am truly grateful for this. I need time to read it properly so will do that sometime when my paretns and Dc are not around and let you know my thoughts. A strategy is developing here and I am sure i will go back with a renewed vision and also sure I would not have got there without this support
Thanks hugelyx

OP posts:
101damnations · 16/02/2010 21:22

loves2walk,I'm sorry to read of your situation.If you can't get access to his blackberry,is it worth trying this?

Buy a cheap PAYG phone and text your dh saying 'don't contact me on anything but this number,I've had to change it,I need to see you urgently'.Don't identify yourself,but just wait and see what,if any response you get.You may get a text back assuming you are OW or he may be genuinely confused as to who it is,and text back accordingly.Plus if you see him trying to avoid you whilst replying,you'll know he is up to no good before you even get a reply.

I hope things are resolved for you.

loves2walk · 17/02/2010 21:57

Thanks for suggestion 101 about the phone. I keep thinking about this and other suggestions for finding out evidence and it just isn't sitting comfortably with me as a way to go. I have tried several times and will again if i get the chance, but don't want to keep going down this road or invest too heavily in it as it may not produce any results which will just continue this frustration. I am struggling to cope with the frustration of not knowing and the amount of time I spend thinking about ways of discovering him is distracting and taking time away from my DC. I can feel myself getting consumed by it and running over so many conversations in my head that I need to switch off from that. I will still be alert to any opportunity that presents itself but just not seeking them out as I have been doing this last 2 weeks.

I am stung is probably the best word by what you've said whenwilli. It rings so true and I can't imagine how you come to have such good insight, even with your experience. So it has taken me a while to think about. I am having a really good week with DC and parents, thank you for asking, doing lots of calm pottering around things with no stress or conflict.

The issue of friends of a marriage is interesting. At no time since the our December chat about disclosure of attraction has she made contact to arrange anything. She has made no attempt to pursue a friendship. Before this chat she was trying - she had invited us over for a sunday lunch with her brother and children, she had suggested we meet for coffee and emailed me to remind me a few times, and sent me pics of her dog. When we first moved here I found it a bit pushy (as my friend says she has no boundaries) and I now wonder whether she was pumping me for information on our home life - maybe that she could have been fantasising about having that type of life. Our DS1 went on a couple of football trips with them and she was very friendly with him which again had me envious but I covered it up well from everyone so no one would think I was insecure.

The way forward is as you suggest whenwilli, to focus on behaviour in marriage regardless of affair. Phone calls this week have been tense and I was asked by DH why I sounded unhappy with him. I said I was reeling from the last week, the conflict and upset by it. He was cross with me and asked well, did I think he was happy about it? Did I think he wanted to be that way? So again an adult way of dealing with it was rejected in favour of throwing it back at me. Then when I said no I didn't think he seemed happy at all and was clearly upset by it all, he said so there you go, it isn't fun for anyone in this. So I'm confused by this type of reaction, my head gets in a muddle as there is yet more conflict so I just quietly said I had to go. Oh also he asked me why I was asking him about his movements so much - he was working, you know - work that has to happen etc. So he is suspicious of me being suspicions of him. I think?! It makes me feel less likely to raise this issue when I get back as he is so primed for conflict. But it also makes me dream of a life free of this for me and DC. But I don't actually want to be a single parent, no matter what I've said earlier about it being better than being treated like crap. Of course I hate being treated like crap, but I hate the thought of depriving my DC of two parents together. So now I'm upset and have to go, can't type and cry at same time though I'm sure MN is full of people trying to do just that out of a need to be heard.

Actually it's not so much fear over DC not having two parents together at all. That isn't so bad once everything is stable and running well, it's fear of the process of splitting up - how terrifying must it be for children to hear that going on and not be in a position to do anything. The year of breakup is the thing I fear most.

But I am going to think about how to deal with this in a calm manner when we get back and see if we can address our communication difficulties and become close again. I can't see how, if there is an affair going on, DH could engage in this properly and so that process of addressing our problems will be telling in itself. I need to read your post again whenwilli, very detailed and spot on. Thanks

OP posts:
IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 18/02/2010 00:46

Feel for you loves2walk, a really awful situation to be in.

Having been in a similar situation myself, what I would say though, with reference to the process of splitting up, is that, in retrospect, living with the problems, was far far worse for me and the DCs than splitting up. My DC's were quite affected by an on-going, difficult situation whilst XH had an affair - although I wanted to fight for my marriage and for "the family" to stay together, in actual fact, I think that the DC's suffered whilst XH behaved like a twunt and I tried to make everything ok whilst being in a bit of a daze. Once I'd made the decision that he should leave, I felt 300% better and, whilst we remain a bit scarred, I'm glad we are free of the situation and not living with XH's poor behaviour

devastatedbuthopeful · 18/02/2010 11:00

WWIFN - always love reading your posts, you seem to describe my situation perfectly, and reason so well that I hope one day to accept my husbands behaviour and choices.
I know what happened to me is not my fault and my marriage was very happy, all our friends and family have been totally shocked by his infidelity. What you say is true, that affairs happen in the happiest of marriages and it is when the OW makes an appearance that things change. I can almost to the day remember when my H began to distance himself from me, I remember all my suspicions being aroused and the amount of checking in pockets, his car, his wallet, his phone, I embarked upon. I confronted him but he always denied everything.
I lived like this for almost 3 years before I had firm proof, and that was a text.
The doubt really screwed with my head, it was a relief to have the truth, but all that is left now is sadness.
Trust your instincts, they generally turn out to be right.

WozShocked · 18/02/2010 11:16

101 - what a brilliant idea! [files it away for future reference]

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 18/02/2010 12:10

Loves2Walk, thanks for getting back.

What you've said doesn't surprise me at all; the way OW has behaved towards you since you addressed it with her, or your H's behaviour now. What you've confirmed is that this woman is no friend of your marriage - but of course, the moment her and your H confessed an attraction to eachother, it automatically became an unsafe friendship.

If your H had been a bit wiser - and/or he had acknowledged in himself that friendships like this impoverish a marriage, he would have backed off from her too. But they didn't back off from eachother - and here we are.

Later on, if all this ever comes out, your H might tell you that he never saw this for the threat it became - told himself that the friendship could continue because he was never going to cross the line. But what happens is so subtle - and often subconscious - that one of the participants doesn't realise what has happened until after the event. I think the OW in your case always knew.

Eventually, I imagine your H got himself to the point where he realised he was going to be unfaithful. This didn't shock him as much as it once would, because of that subtle and unconscious process of "permission-giving" that goes on pre-affair. The twin effect of submitting to the good feelings OW was giving him - and the distancing himself from you, eventually brings him to the point when he can say "yes".

It doesn't matter how old, or worldly-wise people think they are, they frequently over-estimate their resilience to temptation and an attraction to someone else. People who aren't very self-aware, intuitive or emotionally intelligent are particularly vulnerable - and I often think this country particularly, is full of men in mid-life who amply fit this category.

Which brings me back to your H. Amongst all the good qualities you might have attributed to the old H (kind, thoughtful. affectionate and loving perhaps), would you ever have described him as an emotionally intelligent man, who was very self-aware and in touch with his feelings?

He is in a very bad place now - and he is still not in touch with his feelings. His learned reaction is to hit out at you for the way he is feeling. All his instincts are to blame, rather than look inwards.

Being tolerant and pacifying is not going to reverse this - at times it might even make him worse. The only thing that reverses this is discovery or the shock of you leaving anyway. Being loving and understanding had its place last week, when it was inappropriate and counter-productive to confront him about the affair. Last week when you were about to go away, it was wise to increase your H's guilt and erode his affair-justications. Next week however should be different, because you have had time to think and have reached your "enough" moment.

My insights on all this are all as a product of my experience, in life generally - but mostly because of all the work my H and I have done since his affair. His counselling, to a lesser extent my counselling, the reading we've done, but mostly our conversations - have produced the people we are now.

What I also know is that our recovery would have been impossible if my H hadn't challenged 45 years of conditioning and worked on developing the emotional intelligence necessary to turn what pre-affair was a happy marriage, into the amazing one we have now. Because he loved me and realised for perhaps the first time what was at stake, he had an enormous incentive. I don't think recovery is ever possible without that process - and I'm telling you this now to prepare you if this all comes out in the next few weeks. For your marriage to reach its potential, the first step is for him to work on himself - your marriage repair is almost secondary, but that will happen as a result.