Found out some brutal stuff

[wrinklyraisin]

Over the last year I have found out from family member loads of things I didn't know about my mother. The main thing being she squirrelled away most of our child support payments (amounting to way over 75k) and is now living off that in a foreign country. All of her children are now adults.

After our parents divorced, our father bought a house outright for us to live in. Then the courts ordered he pay a substantial sum to mum each month for us. He earned a lot so we got a lot of maintenance. BUT from the age of 11 to 18 I have few memories of being allowed to buy new clothes, we had to wear second hand shop clothes, we had no holidays, no school trips, cheap food... meanwhile our mother took up several expensive habits, and complained to us all the time that our father NEVER paid maintenance thus we had to suffer and to blame HIM not her. She bworked very very part time so I know ashe never earned enough to fund her lifestyle at that time.

Since then I have seen court documents, bank statements and solicitors letters. So I know for a fact our father DID pay thousands and thousands for us every year. This was years ago now and I am FURIOUS at my mother for lying, for keeping the money, for letting me destroy my relationship with my father, as I believed he never paid or cared. I don't know what to say to my mother now. I want to sue her or something for years of deceipt, for withholding the money that was supposed to benefit us children. Our father lived 400 miles away and we hardly ever saw him, so he was never truly aware of the fact we did not reveive the full benefits of his maintenance. Now he knows the truth he is astounded and angry too. He says he paid a LOT so we would have a good life despite his not being a part of it any more.

I am so angry and so sad. I don't want to rehash old issues but this knowledge has made everything come back to the surface. FFS Mum made us go without shampoo and conditioner and deodarant as teenage girls as she "couldn't afford it". We had to use cheap supermarket soap to wash our hair. I used to steal friends body spray at aleepovers. We lived in a lovely house though and no one ever really knew what went on behind closed doors. My clothes were embarassing. Thank God for school uniforms.

My mother is unstable, I suspect bipolar. She's made some very poor decisions in raising us. Yet now we are adults her memories of our childhood are VERY different from ours. Apparently we were raised free and liberal and wanted for nothing. Ok. I remember cutting mouldy crusts off white bread to make sandwiches for school. She would buy a certain amount of cheap and nasty food on a Saturday and by Thursday we'd often have to choose lunch or dinner as we couldn't have both.

Now she lives in an amazing house in a lovely country. She "retired" at 45 with her new husband. She considers herself the victim in life as she never wanted a cheating husband, or ungrateful children, etc etc...

I work bloody hard and earn a fair amount. She is now demanding I start contributing towards a savings account for HER and her DH as they want supporting once they are old. and apparently I OWE her.

I am so messed up over this, I know I need therapy or something. But I am also wanting to see what recall we children have for the maintenance that we never benefitted from. It was years ago. But the ramifications of her actions have affected all of us children as adults.

Ugh what a mess.

If you've read this far thank you.

Oh you poor thing that all sounds awful.

It does sound like you could do with some good therapy.

Also, obviously you OWE her nothing, she is a TOXIC mother and you should under no circumstances pay her any money.

You need to also accept that she is a toxic woman but she won't change, and you have no control over her and her apalluing behaviour and neither was it your fault, and equally you do have control over your own behaviour and reactions now, you can choose not to let her bad parenting affect you any more as an adult, with the help of therapy you can move on and start fresh.

oh god you poor thing ! What a thing to find out......

well you know our parents rely on us to help them in their old age and you have the choice to withdraw that help.

That will scare the living cr*p out of her.

Sorry you're feeling so bad. But really don't understand how you think you can claim on the maintenance payments?

no advice just sympathy really. Although when she mentions saving for her old age you could always point out that you've already done that when you were kids.

You do need to talk this over with a counsellor. And hopefully in time be able to let it go - I really don't think you would have any legal recourse, but you could get a free half hour with a solicitor to find out. Think long and hard as to whether that would actually make you feel any better, though.

Your father sounds like a good, decent man - keep on to that thought. And congratulate yourself for having done well in life despite your mother.

And of course you owe her nothing whatsoever; don't ever contribute to her "savings" account.

This is dreadful. I'm not a lawyer but I do wonder if you might not have some sort of legal recourse here - try posting an outline of the story on the legal board and see if anyone has any helpful suggestions.
Now normally it would be a dreadful thing to take legal action over money within a family as it will wreck the relationships - but your relationship with your mother is wrecked already, and it might actually help you move on and feel better if you are able to take action against her for what is basically theft.

I don't really think I can claim Owls. I just feel she STOLE what was meant to be for the benefit of us children. We did not receive the child support that our father paid. It's not right at all and I am angry for what we went through. It was miserable and could have been avoided if the money had been used as per it's court ordered purpose.

She is very toxic. I feel even now so guilty for saying these things about her. She actually set up the savings account and emailed me saying this is how much we will need in 15 years, per year, and so this is how much you need to contribute. Her rationale is she raised me for 18 years therefore I owe her 18 years care. I have told her I have my own pension and savings to consider. Her reply: get a better paid job then.

This is coming from the woman who charges her own mother per hour for any help she gives her, and also charges inflated rent etc from her so she can profit from my grandmothers money before she dies and therefore it has to be split among the heirs.

Money is the root of all evil in our family. Or in her anyway. We all owe her. And if we deny her she cries and rants and raves and says life isn't worth it, why are we treating her so badly, we are so ungrateful, look at what she sacrificed for us...

Does your mum know you know what she did with the money while you were growing up? And how clear are the statements etc. you've seen (as in, are they suggestive that she'd used money for herself on some occasions, or are they clear proof she took all of it? Or something in between?).

If you can, I would write a letter to your mum explaining that you now know what happened with the child support payments your dad had been making, and that having found this out, you do not consider you have any obligation to give her financial help now or at any stage in the future. If you're quite formal and direct about it, it might not only get the point across to your mum, but also feel like a clean break for you?

But that is very much personal advice, and obviously I don't know you so I can't tell if this is something that would work for you.

What a nasty woman. I would stop contact with her. Why bother with her. I would have a little bit of counselling but don't give her that much head space. I would have a family pow-pow with brother's and sister's and see if you all see the same picture (some might not) Have you got the money and head space to go through the courts? What does your dad want to do? I would spend time building a relationship with him, if he wants to. You are longer an adult than a child.
Put the past as character building gets a little counselling and move on with out her. I suddenly have a vision of Brenda's Mum in 'Dinner ladies'

I've seen bank statements showing transfers to my mothers acccount every month for approx 9 years of a substantial sum. Also seen the court orders stating how much my father had to pay. Have seen letters from my mother to my father totally irrational and raging at him saying raising 3 children costs more than the substantial sum he was already paying. Have seen solicitors letters saying my father is adhering to all of the court ordered instructions and my mother should refrain from harassing him.

I have had the pow wow and this is how we are all now fully aware of all the facts. We are all angry and also shocked. I mean our mother deprived us of decent food, clothing, school experiences, etc. The money she received was huge, especially given the housing was already provided and paid for! She took up hobbies that required travel and expensive equipment. We were not included in that travel, we went to stay with aunts etc.

I would love to write to my mother and say I KNOW everything now. But I am actually really scared she will try and kill herself. Once before one of us children confronted her on something and she drove her car to a coatline and sat in it threatening to drive off. We all had to literally talk her off the edge and from then on it's been eggshells and hidden feelings and being artificially nice and supportive of her.

But I cannot go on like this. I think her presence is poisoning me. I feel worthless by her treatment. I feel ungrounded by it all. The one person in our lives that was supposed to be doing everything for our wellbeing, was too selfish and deceitful and nasty. And even though she has mental health issues I have NO sympathy.

I'm sorry to keep waffling on. This forum is great for being anonymous and getting these things out of my head and heart. I am so grateful for those who have taken the time to reply. I don't have easy access in my work life to a friend I could tell all this to. I am going to find some therapy next week though, as I am terrified I will turn into my mother. I share her genes and seeing her behaviour past and present is quite honestly giving me panic attacks.

What a dreadful discovery, Raisin! No wonder you're furious! Such a tremendous shock, too - although you clearly knew your mother was a bit of a wrong 'un, to find she's not only stolen all that money but, also, robbed you of your relationship with your father must be devastating!

I agree it would be good to discuss with your sibs. I'm also 100% with SGB in that - while chasing money usually damages an already damaged family - it could be worth finding out if any fiscal 'resolution' is available in your case.

Good that you now have the opportunity to repair things with your father, relationship-wise. The most obnoxious issue for you, I imagine, is having to re-frame your perceptions of your mother. Mother/daughter affairs run deep; you may well find some counselling useful. First, though, you might want to work/think/talk around it some more - figure out your feelings before you pay someone to help you deal with them!

Probably not what you want to hear right now, but something nasty must have caused your mother to feel so needy & entitled, she stole from her own children. You could do worse than have a look at "When You & Your Mother Can't Be Friends" by Victoria Secunda - if only to help you get a handle on your mum's weirdness.

No one can turn into someone else. Different times different experiences. Kept the nice stuff from my Mum brillant cook BUT I decided to marry a lovely man and have a well paid job can't turn into my Mum. She had a really rotten mother and has produced 4 great kids. (apart from my brother who just can't shut-up

Lord, don't worry about her killing herself- people that selfish are generally never so obliging: they just enjoy the panic they create and attention their threats garner. I agree with the formal letter, and that building a relationship with your father may be a healing experience too.

How did you find all this out?

Don't worry about turning into her either- you are YOU, and have made a success of your life despite her.

Hi OP,

My XP's mother sounds very similar to yours....don't know about the money stuff in their family but she has done exactly what yours has in terms of wrecking the relationship between XP and his father by lying about everything from how the divorce (she had affair with his bf Dad) happened to where they lived (she had told him they were left destitute and had to live in a one bedroom council house when in fact their family home had been sold and she got half the money!).

One of XPs criticisms of his father while I was with him was that he and his second wife used to buy him and his brother clothes and get their hair cut when they visited him - this was interpreted as being because they were ashamed of and embarrassed by them as they didn't live up their standards in some way. In fact, DP's mother used to call them with no notice to say the boys were on the train, and they arrived with only the clothes they stood up in.

I've also heard several conversations where his version of his childhood is directly contradicted and corrected by his mother i.e. XP - "I remember you being dreadfully upset when Dad called":MIL - "That is nonsense, I had to beg your father to phone you". Everything he remembers in wrong in some way, and there is some alternative story that casts her as the victim.

The biggest whopper seems to be that XP has always been told of this huge battle between his mother and father over him going to boarding school. I've heard this story from his mother a few times and have always felt it didn't ring true (how she wept and wailed and begged his father not to send him) - MIL is a frighteningly dominant and controlling character and I cannot imagine her EVER being steamrollered into anything, never mind something like that. In fact, through piecing together bits of info from other family member and finally having frank (separate) conversations with his Dad and Stepmum it turns our she made the decision he was going, and even chose where it was he went (the most expensive place - this was sold as his Dad being over ambitious on XP's behalf).

This has all recently come out because XP has been so badly fucked up by all the lies and uncertainty / feelings of abandonment that he gradually ended up on heroin. He's about to go into hospital on Monday for psychiatric treatment.

I do think people who manipulate and abuse their children in this way should be accountable, and because of the money factor in your story, I really hope you might get somewhere.

I can't understand why anyone would do this to their child.

Here is a link to a page talking about 'Gaslighting\ which is a form of psychological abuse employed by manipulative and controlling individuals which might make interesting reading for you.

Your mother sounds selfish controlling and manipulative.
If you feel confronting her would make you feel better then do it. Any suicidal "threats" that she then emitted would be just that - threats. I doubt very much whether she would follow anything through. She may well be the kind of person who would get off on the drama and the guilt trip she would induce in you.
This woman is clearly toxic. You owe her precisely NOTHING.
Either tell her what you know or ignore her outright. Her presence in your life is malignant. Separating yourself entirely from her ego centrism will be healthier for you in the long run.
Find a decent therapist and try and process your past.
I really wish you the best of luck

I first got an inkling when my brother said our father had all the documents regarding the divorce settlement etc and did we children want to see them now we were adults. Curiousity killed the cat. From then all the three of us children have talked more, seen more, discovered more. And it all paints a really horrific picture. Little bits of it here and there were disturbing enough. But knowing it all now is really not good in that the person I thought was my mother is not. The reality cannot be sugar coated or denied and the fact she's living such a privileged life now and STILL complains and rants and raves... when will it end? She's a really nasty person and I feel like I'm the bad guy in saying that. I have spent many years justifying and rationalizing our mother to my brother and sister. I felt as the eldest my job was to make everything ok.

I will read that link now, cananybodyhelp.

I can understand how you feel completely, but I think the most important thing is that, like you said, your Dad knows now what went on. And that you know he wasnt a bad man that abandoned you and left you in poverty. Thats something good to salvage

XP is in the same position - he has been her ultimate defender. Rationalises all her odd and rude behaviour when everyone else is .

It's as though she has brainwashed him into believing that she must be more important to him than anything else in his life. He has no friendships, all his relationships have gone the same way...she has taught him that it is an intrinsic betrayal of her to have relationships with others.

this story is just horrific! your mother is a toxic, nasty bully of a woman who would be unlikely to give you the decency of actually going through with killing herself!!
I am all for you and your siblings writing her a letter explaining all you know and demanding that she account for the money she spent! and you should tell her in that letter that you intend seeking financial redress for her mismanagement of your child support!
i was a single parent for years, my ex paid me a pittance but every penny went to the kids - I was the one who did without, i didnt eat lunch, i didnt get new clothes - it was their money so they got the good of it.

I said and did some awful things to my father. I am embarassed and ashamed now, as every action I took was as a direct response to the constant criticism my mother piled on me about him. Now I know the truth, and I don't even know where to start with building bridges. My siblings have great relationships with him now but I shut him out years ago and I am scared about starting again with him as an adult. I do feel lucky though that I now know the truth and have the opportunity to put things right. I dread to think if he'd died in the meantime and then I found all this out. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself

That gaslighting thing is amazing. It is totally what she does. To everybody. Even her "friends" think she's an amazing mother for raising us children through such hardship and making us the successful people we are now. If only they knew....

Dwayne when we were sent to our fathers we often went with an empty suitcase or just a couple of scraggly outfits. It was mortifying. As I got older I would cry in the car on the way there that I was embarassed by my clothes and that everyone would laugh and my mother would slap my leg and say I needed to remember who the victim was here (her) and that if I had any issues I should take it up with my father.

God bless him he would buy us new clothes to leave there and I would "steal" them to take home and then my mother would be furious and say if he could afford to get us new clothes he could afford to pay maintenance!!!! It was such a vicious circle of lies!

That sounds really similar to what happened to my XP. What fucked up sort of head would do that to their kids?!

XP's mother has stonewalled everyone since there has been a collaborative effort to get him the help he so desperately needs.

She is shitting herself about what will come out in the wash. I think these sort of people are very concerned about how others see them - XP's mother is a vain, bossy lady who likes to think she's a cut above everyone else, when in fact she is cruel and low down. I think somewhere in there she must be very bitter and unhappy, perhaps even scared, to have forced these feelings onto her children...but then again maybe it is just sheer nastiness.

at your story, WR.

What kind of relationship do you now have with your Dad, Wrinkly?

I wonder if he's the only one who could sue -- in effect, she stole the money from him too (like a breach of contract between them).