Personality Disorder - any success stories of living with them?

[feelingpositivemum]

Just that really, is there anyone out there who has successfully changed the way they are and react to someone with a PD (abusive) to make a success of the relationship?

(Really, could I have changed the way I reacted to my exH and forced him to change his behaviour. Did my lack of boundaries make it worse, and if I developed some would he have responded positively?)

you cant change them

my ex had a pd.....still has....i left,he was very damaging

That's what I believe, it's just I've read a few things recently that implied that they pick a 'type' of person, so therefore, if you stop being that 'type' maybe they wouldn't feel so allowed to behave that way.

Does that make sense?

Or, would it have ended earlier then.

Also, since we split up he had been so utterly reasonable, (except for new W in 2 weeks), am I behaving differently and he is responding or am I still being manipulated for some reason that will become apparent in due course (maybe when divorce is through)

I don't think any of this makes sense, but then most of my thinking doesn't!

he'll be the same with new woman...eventually. suppose it will take a while,but i dont think these people can change

maybe they react differently to different personality types? but even so,you shouldnt try and change yourself to 'fit in'

which kind of disorder did he have...i read that there are a few strands...

I share your doubts, feelingpositivemum. I still battle with fears that it was all my fault, as he claimed - and with feeling that I need a total character transplant so it never happens again!

The thing is, personality disordered people find your vulnerabilities and exploit them. They don't need you to have 'weaknesses' in your own personality, an efficient psychopath can twist any characteristic to their purposes.

I'm sure people with weak boundaries (me included!) make attractive partners for PDs as they then find it easy to get what they want. But it's not a requirement. If it's any comfort to you, I did get some boundaries while we were divorcing (better late than never, eh?) and changed the way I interacted with him. He just changed the way he interacted, too. It was grimly fascinating to see!

Horrible, isn't it, how long the damage can last? No, you couldn't have changed him. No, it wasn't your fault.

Narcissitic, I feel.

He is just sad that I could never understand why he behaved like he did, why I couldn't of ignored his bad behaviour as I knew why he was behaving like this, then it would have all been fine.

Basically, if only I had taken ownership of all of it, then we would have survived!

Also, as he is behaving so calmly and reasonably, it is unnerving. I think it may be so that nothing kicks off before divorce settlement and so I am more reasonable, therefore he will do better financially.

Or, now we are no longer in a relationship with him, the war is over in effect. The whole relationship was one long war you see.

Sorry, Itsgraceagain, crossed posts.

I have vastly improved my boundaries with him since leaving and starting divorce..

Now, I'm wondering, as he is behaving so well, whether that was all he needed.

But.. I can't relax as it is so not like him.

Something is strange. I still feel I'm being manipulated, just not sure how!

I wish I had a pound for every time someone says their ex has a psychological/psychiatric disorder.

Has the personality disorder been diagnosed by an expert? If so what type and did your ex seek professional help?

The point about personality disorders is that personality is who you are and cannot be changed although some of the problems associated with a personality disorder might be treated or managed.

PS We all have narcissitic traits and it takes a professional with experience of using diagnostic tools to determine any personality disorder or any other mental health problem for that matter.

The thing is, personality disordered people find your vulnerabilities and exploit them. They don't need you to have 'weaknesses' in your own personality, an efficient psychopath can twist any characteristic to their purposes.

Oh dear! I had to reply. I have BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and comments like this make me want to scream!!!

I don't look for weaknesses, not even subconsciously. I don't exploit anyone. I have a sucessful (almost 20 years, married for 15) relationship, and 3 well adjusted, fabulous kids.

I am NOT a psychopath.

A Personality Disorder, which can be horrendous to live with, for both the sufferer and the people who have to live with them, is still medical diagnosis, an illness. I do, totally understand why many people cannot continue to live with someone with a PD, but please don't assume everyone with one is mad. We're just ordinary people, trying to live our lives as well as we can, dealing with the abuse we dealt with as children (because most PD diagnoses involve a level of childhood abuse or abandonment.

A person with a PD needs to seek help (I have had several years of ongoing therapy) and the way a partner behaves cannot be viewed as a way to make it worse. You are not to blame! A loving and thoughtful partner can help (my dh is amazing) btu none should be forced to stay with anyone with these symptoms.

However, on MN people with PDs are often described as "they", "these people" or, one time, I read "sub-human". We are not. We are ordinary people trying our best to make our way in the world when our entire perception of reality has been damaged by our early experiences. We often can't form happy and successful relationships, btu we are still people.

I change my name for these posts. I'm still too afraid to "out" myself as a PD sufferer on MN!

He hasn't been to see anyone because why would he need to, there's nothing wrong with him.

Ok, so I have labelled him from reading books that describe him to the last letter and then say that's whats wrong.

I apologise if that's not appropriate. I suppose the gist of my question is the same whether it's a pd or not.

Point totally taken, Borderliner. I suppose that was why I was asking the question.

I know that fundamentally he is a good person, just has terrible problems relating to women who are close to him and he depends on. He was forever hating me for the crimes committed in the past by his mother and father. In the end, I couldn't cope anymore and couldn't shoulder the blame.

However, you sound like you have tremendous insight into your circumstances. He does not and I don't think will. That makes it difficult if not impossible to have a relationship with.

All very sad.

my ex has been diagnosed properly,yes, ...he had a forensic psychiatric assesment with a psychiatrist.

needs to see a psychologist next,but is now refusing.

thing is,hius pd was not diagnosed,but was treated for years as having depression,which the psychiatrist ruled out immediately

borderliner.....sorry you feel this way. hope i didnt ofend you in any way with my post!!! my ex's pd was and still is combined with violence. he has had 3 girlfriends since me who he has beaten horrifically. much worse than what i got. so i think,for me,his violence with these other women have made me see it wasn't 'just me'.

I'm glad you replied, borderliner. You are right, of course, and I was nervous about the way I expressed my post. Short of writing a small dissertation, it was simpler to answer the OP in context (ex-partner of abusive/manipulative type).

Depending on your choice of definitions, I'm personality-disordered; I'm a depressive. As you're no doubt aware, though, there are many disorders that present with absent or impaired social functions like empathy, caring and responsibility. Often these symptoms result from other causes than personality disorder - frontal-lobe brain damage, for instance. In a relationships forum like this one, it's common to use PD as shorthand for such disorders. It's prejudicial. But then so are remarks like "just like a man" or "she's very girly" - etc.

Yikes, Tiffany

STIDW/borderliner BPD can be successfully treated and cured and I am living proof of that. I no longer fulfill the DSIV (or whatever they call it now!) criteria for BPD. This was full treatment from a psychiatric team - not "internet" diagnosis.

Comments such as "psychopath", "can never be cured" etc., etc. are not helpful at all.

Tiffany It's interesting you say your husband was mis-diagnosed with straight depression... I'd had that diagnosis since I was in my teens but of course normal anti-depressants never fixed me, it wasn't until I was 29 I think that I finally found a medical team who looked at the problem deeper - thank goodness! Until I was fixed "mentally" at least they were able to prescribe more applicable medication.

I use the phrase PD about my ex, because reading about the condition it is so familiar and gives me the framework I need to help make sense of it. I understand that I am not using the phrase in the sense of a clinical diagnosis.

My ex was very abusive and controlling and, since I left six months ago, has been incredibly reasonable. I won't talk to him, we have done everything via solicitors or in writing. His measured, calm approach is completely out of character that it has freaked me out a lot. He never even asked me why I left, which I do think is odd after seven years together and children.

In a way, I think people like him (him, not people with PDs)are very good at survival and lacking in empathy. I am no longer useful to him, I am no longer a source of supply.

But I need to understand why I let myself be treated this way. To that end, I am having psychotherapy which is a very intense and bizarre experience, but incredibly rewarding. It has made me realise just how abusive and neglectful my childhood was. I need to deal with that. I don't hate my ex, just his behaviour. I know he struggles, but I don't want him in my life. In a weird way, he helped by his awful behaviour as I wouldn't be dealing with my stuff if he had been nicer.

My Ex is has borderline PD - and extremely violent, manipulative and unscrupulous. This is not the case for all suffering from this comdition but it is a massive problem for my children and me and my partner. He flits from thing to thing, changing who he is and what he likes (including numerous dramatic court appearances seeking different things from me re. the children) He went 4 and a bit years ago, hasn't seen his children for almost 2 years and is a scary bastard. I would like to say something positive but there is nothing positive to say about all this. He is very obsessed about certain things at certain times and it is very unnerving for us all wating for his next move. My children have been immesurable damaged by this man, his violence and his continued obsessions with contact although he finds himself unable to behave reasonably if he does have contact.

If he dies tomorrow I would not shed a tear for him despite his 'illness'.

Tarty....he sounds very much like my own ex!! its terrifying.

skihorse...yes,the depression just seemed untrue to me. he was never what i'd call depressed. but if he had an outburst/violent incident etc,then everyone used to say (and here on mn alot i have noticed)he must have 'depression'

he has right meds now i hope,of course i no longer see him,and kids arent allowed.

'I use the phrase PD about my ex, because reading about the condition it is so familiar and gives me the framework I need to help make sense of it. I understand that I am not using the phrase in the sense of a clinical diagnosis.'

Thanks Queen of Whatever, that is what I meant, and having come back to thread I am embarrassed at the title.

I didn't mean to offend anyone who has a PD and is successfully living with it or has been treated. My phrasing is appalling.

I think I am just floundering in my newly single status, I haven't had a moments doubt about leaving but there are a lot of threads on here at the moment with similar issues and some people replying have gone on to work at having successful relationships with their partners.

I am just having the jitters I think, not helped by him being so reasonable. But it doesn't feel a 'safe' reasonable for some reason.

I could never go back because it would never feel genuine and that word again, safe.

What does frustrate me is that if it is so easy to be reasonable now, why couldn't he do that 6 months ago?

I'm rambling, I just wanted to apologise for title.

Even psychopaths are not to blame for their condition.

"Experts describe personality disorders as being ?fuzzy at the edges?. One person may qualify for several different disorders, while a wide range of people may fit different criteria for the same disorder, despite having very different personalities. Avoidant and dependent personality disorder are very similar, and so are histrionic and narcissistic personality disorders.

Slotting people into neat categories is almost impossible, because each individual is unique and personality is very complex. It?s a mistake to assume that giving people a diagnostic label means knowing more about them, and it?s too easy to use these terms in a judgemental way. Many of these diagnostic labels have been used in a way that stigmatises people.

Personality disorders can be seen as extreme examples of tendencies that everybody shares. Negative personality traits and extremes of behaviour are often regarded as quite excusable and unremarkable if the individual is gifted, famous or creative. On the other hand, a person who is always irritable or smug may find themselves being rejected far more often than someone diagnosed with a personality disorder who is much more pleasant to be with. Labelling people as ?masochistic?, ?dependent? and ?inadequate? can be insulting and hurtful. It could be that medical professionals gave people these labels simply because they were ?difficult? in some way."

See;
www.mind.org.uk/help/diagnoses_and_conditions/personality_disorders#apd

skihorse,

It's often thought that personality problems are too deep-seated to be treatable but there is evidence that symptoms may get better as people get older. Some research suggests that after 10 to 15 years, or so, between 50 to 75 per cent of those diagnosed with BPD no longer display enough of the symptoms to meet the criteria for the diagnosis.

feelingpositivemum, you said "it doesn't feel a 'safe' reasonable for some reason" ... and that's it, isn't it? When you fall in love with someone & decide to share your life with them, you suppose that life will be mostly about mutual love, respect and caring.

If you then find the emotional base of your partnership keeps shifting, changing shape - so you never feel sure about the love, respect & caring - it throws you whole being off-balance somehow. Those are fundamental emotions; our drive to form mutually supportive families is hard-wired in us. When you accept somebody as a partner, and that person toys with your fundamental emotions, it shocks your mind so much that you begin to doubt everything you thought you were. That's how the partner gains power over you: they've succeeded in disrupting your very instincts.

It's normal to feel unsure of yourself for quite some time afterwards - your mind has been messed with at deep levels! I think it is useful to ask questions like your OP, to read books on how such relationships work (and how to recover from them), and to get counselling. Above all, remember that emotionally 'safe' is how you're meant to feel. Your instincts still know this. Just in time, they protected you from further damage.

Hope your recovery goes smoothly & well

Don't beat yourself up about how you behaved, whether you would have, could have, should have. Just be happy he's out of your hair to some degree and work on getting emotionally disentangled.

I personally found labels incredibly useful. Much moreso to me than the labels my exH used to yell at me pretty much constantly. Knowing what I was dealing with, or even having an inkling of it, protected me from god knows what further damage he might have inflicted on me and on our children. It freed me from the self-blame and the guilt and the fear deep down inside that maybe I really was a bitch, a slob, a screw-up, a terrible mother, a bad and disorganised cook, an inconsiderate waste of space, frigid and cold, a nag... (all this from a man who fought with sales clerks, sneered and rolled his eyes at waiters, couldn't get his tighty whities into a laundry basket if you paid him, cost us a huge amount of money through his maladroit efforts at home repair, screamed at and humiliated our children regularly, and cursed frequently at them too, left porn on the computer that anyone could have seen if they just moved the mouse, burned or dangerously undercooked everything he ever tried cooking and thought recipes were for losers, preferred men as it turned out, and left me a lot of mornings with a 'to do' list) He has moved on to someone else. She is welcome to him.

STIDW There has been extensive research done in Manhattan and The Netherlands over the last 10 years or so - I have taken part in the research which included having MRI scans to test brain activity against stimulus. BPD is being cured and I've spoken about it on mn before. I'm sorry you've not heard about the new research. My psychiatric team recently gave a conference in Galway on this treatment and I believe there are pockets in the UK where it is also done. Treatment is not easy and up to 50% of participants drop out.

But please stop tarring everybody with the same brush and/or inaccuracies.

When you make statements such as yours above it makes my achievements seem diminished and you make it sound as though I'm not being honest. A one-size-fits-all scenario is not applicable when dealing with mental illness.

You first post yesterday evening talks about "fuzzy edges" and your second denies my treatment which makes me feel horrible.

I would be happy to point you in the right direction so you can learn more about healing personality disorders and yes, it goes back to fixing the way the brain is wired during childhood.