Personality Disorder - any success stories of living with them?

[feelingpositivemum]

Just that really, is there anyone out there who has successfully changed the way they are and react to someone with a PD (abusive) to make a success of the relationship?

(Really, could I have changed the way I reacted to my exH and forced him to change his behaviour. Did my lack of boundaries make it worse, and if I developed some would he have responded positively?)

Wow. So twisted. Wouldn't my ex be surprised (and possibly really mad) to think there are quite a few people out there who are so like him they even say the same things?

It still makes me shake my head.

bpdcentral.com is a great site, cestlavie. I first encountered it years ago; it gave me the first inkling that I might not actually be to blame for any of what went on in our 'marriage'.

Gosh, Violet101, although I am embarrassed to recall it now, I actually said to my ex that I would settle for civility from him, if he could find even that much in his heart for me.

ladies, I apologise in advance for butting in again

autumn...why do you never answer when someone asks why you are still with this man, after all you have endured and with the insight you now appear to have gained

Am sorry to cut and paste but this extract of yours bothers me...

"... yes, unfortunately, there has been a lot of DV in my situation in the past. You can never trust a person who has done that to you again, and know they are capable of terrible things. It was pretty horrendous and came to end, for the most part, when SS got involved....."

that does not sound like the violence has stopped

if there is DV in your home, and SS have already been involved, you are treading a very dangerous line

I have no wish to hound you, nor make uneducated guesses about your life, but I would urge you again to seek concrete RL help to get out and stop rationalising your situation on the internet with a bunch of strangers

sorry ladies, I don't understand why autumn keeps posting repeatedly on these threads, I am very

I will qualify that...I do understand why

what I don't get is that she seems to not want to do very much about it

AF......do you not know alot about DV? it takes some doing you know,the upping and leaving bit. womens aid have figures on how long/how many incidents it takes fona woman to actually go

as for ss involvement....maybe the actual violence has stopped but there is other DV still going on?? DV isnt all about being hit/punched/slapped etc. ss will have no powers to do anything about any other form of abuse that doesnt put children in risk of harm....so it could be sexual,financial....another type of dv

she's still there because she hasnt taken next step yet

Easier said than done though, AF. Took me years and it would possibly still be going on if not for ex's infidelity (infidelities?) and my realisation that he was not even straight. When you make a move to end things, the thought of having all your washing hanging out in public can be really terrifying too.

thankfully, I don't have experience of DV, ILT, does that mean I cannot comment ?

but I recognise deep denial when I see it and a rather scary intellectualisation of the problem by autumn which I think is actually paralysing her

I hope she does take that next step, and quickly

before something horrible happens

I fear I have offended. I thought I might, but typed my thoughts anyway. For that I apologise, but not for having an opinion.

< hijack over...moves along >

You do feel paralysed, and such is the nature of paralysis, you can't really move while it's going on. I'm not the person I was a few years ago -- I feel sorry for that person, wish I could have told her then what I know now, but of course I had to learn things the hard way. And I probably wouldn't have been open to hearing what Less Optimistic Me from 2008 onwards would have to say. I know I really felt that I could change things, back then, if only I tried harder, did a few things differently.

I'm going to side with AF on this one. Autumn, I'm not ganging up on you and I'm not underestimating how hard it is to leave - but it can be a mistake to wait till you feel "ready". It is so damn hard to do that you'll never feel ready. Like giving birth, at a certain point you just have to do it whether you feel up to the task or not.

And AF is right about intellectualizing it. It's possible to get almost comfortable with a situation. You've got to grips with it in your head but I'm concerned that you're not really letting yourself feel it. You deserve better than this, autumn. There's no reason to live like this - you are your only jailor.

ladies, without linking to previous threads, please take my word for the fact I am not responding to this thread alone wrt autumn's situation

We know, AF. Drip, drip, drip ... we might get through to autumn in the end

Tarty, just read this on the BPD Central website:
"Many individuals have noticed that some people with BPD have an amazing ability to read people and uncover their triggers and vulnerabilities. One clinician jokingly called people with BPD psychic."

And fell around laffing

That's what's so creepy and unnerving about them.

well of course,its easy to say leave when you arent there in that situation.....it took me MANY years to get out,and when i did it was a case of 'why the hell did it take me so long'???

when you're living with someone like this,the dv may be once a week,when rest of the time its normal.

i suppose anyone can comment AF,doesnt matter who it comes from....autumn hasnt had that lightbulb moment yet

ILT, I am in no way saying it is easy, these boards are enough to make that very clear

I have the utmost respect for people who gain the amount of insight it must take to make that decision it has to stop

My point is, autumn has had that lightbulb moment...she posts with clarity, intelligence and insight into her situation. But when I stalk her to ask her, with all respect, why she is still with her particular monster, she ducks out, leaves the thread and then pops up on another

that is her perogative, of course, we can all use a discussion board such as this in whatever way we see fit

and no way am I even suggesting you should not post unless you are willing/able to change things for the better

I can see enough to say you must have to go round in circles countless times, but am I wrong in thinking that would get you to a point of understanding how bad the abuse is, and after that you have to take action

Autumn is already there, by her own clear and informed admission.

my gut feeling is that by staying in an abusive situation, once you have this degree of clarity, smacks very uncomfortably of collusion and waiting for things to get even worse

autumn..are you still there, love ?

Ah well, collusion - now you've made an intersting point. I colluded so much and was in such massive denial. This is where Stockholm syndrome comes into play and it is very powerful. Your sense of reality also becomes very distorted because of the gaslighting and isolation from other points of view.

I look back now and am horrfied at what I put up with. I can barely believe it. But a further issue is how many of us have messed up childhoods. I was abused by both parents as a child (my Mum was I believe NPD and my Dad is very strange in a way I associate with PDs). I feel my ex groomed me because I was vulnerable. I also believed I deserved no better, largely because of my view of myself from my upbringing. My parents were way nuts, the scars run deep.

Plus, you think you're Married, so a bit of For Better or Worse is bound to come into it. The horror doesn't happen overnight most of the time. It creeps up very gradually, and they do train you little by little to accept less and less of everything that is good for you and more and more of what will destroy you. By the time you start to think 'Hey wait a minute' you have joint finances, children, pets even. You're all tangled up with him in every way. And you may also have a mental habit of shutting down your emotions, gritting your teeth and getting through the day without 'provoking' any kind of trouble. Your energy is focused on today. It takes an almost superhuman effort to let yourself feel the pain of your circumstances in full force and then start thinking of leaving or getting him to leave (which is just a precursor to the much longer process of disengaging).

Ladies, I truly am not disputing how the situation can develop...I think I must be putting my point across badly (I don't have the correct terms, for a start)

When someone is not isolated from other points of view, is freely able to compare notes in an intelligent and informed manner about vile and frightening abuse and is able to give useful advice to others, what does that mean ?

Yes, and it all feels weird and dreamlike. We don't have much everyday language to describe what's happening - so when you try to articulate it, you can end up making it sound as if you're exaggerating or as if you're describing ordinary marital tiffs. If you describe only the parts we do have words for, like physical violence, people say "Leave him then" without thinking about the ways in which your confidence has been destroyed.

And they change. I stopped XH#1 hitting me, by leaving him after he put my teeth through my face & broke my arm. I didn't notice how he replaced the verbal & physical violence: with increasingly subtle controls and far more calculated emotional abuse. Then - years later, when we were divorcing - he came into the spare room where I was asleep & strangled me. Out of nowhere.
He was such a nice guy, too

They don't change, Autumn In very many ways, it would be better to shove a few things into carrier bags and just go.
However you play it, stick with us! You'll need a few people, who really do know how you feel

Can I ask you guys something? I haven't had any relationships for nearly 10 years - I want to be reasonably confident I'm not going to fall for this crap a third time!! Any simple rules of thumb I might start off with??

Just realised I said "They change ... They don't change"

What I meant was: even when they change, it's only a change in tactics; the relationship doesn't change. And will revert to type.

Grace, if I knew that answer to that I'd bottle it. I suppose, take everything day by day, and examine behaviour and things he says minutely. If you find yourself minimising anything or trying to explain anything away in your own head, run. Believe everything negative you hear and take everything at face value.

Yep, Math, I do believe you're right! Especially the last sentence!! I've dumped everyone I went out with since XH#2 on the basis of something they said, which made me uneasy. Of course ... everyone else says I'm being too judgemental, should give them a chance, etc

Fuck it, me & my cat are very happy together

cats have a lot goin' for 'em

Err well i have asked for my indescrete post to be deleted because it could land me in massive shit i am sure if he finds out, please no one email or anything for goodness sakes.

Bear in mind he just finished working at a hospital in our area - mind you at least there were others keeping an eye - but hes messed things up there so has had to move on (again) for those who have seen the website - the testemonials are rather chilling - he even had one of his flaky facebook people call me up and give me a lecture because they believe his lies - really fucking chilling. He is now completely unregulated and unchallenged.

And yes, the rictus smile , what a strange choice of picture..... persnoal development course anyone?????

mathanxiety - you are spot on. I have now got to a stage of shutting down my emotions - it is, quite simply, my way of withdrawing mentally from someone who has the ability to upset me. I do not wish to keep repeating the scenario of putting myself 'in the firing line, emotionally' to keep being hurt. And yes, I have not taken the next step yet. In the past I have had zero confidence or belief in my abilities. There is no physical violence (my H is not stupid and knows that I would nowadays call the police on him. This is something I would never have done years ago). Of course, there is still all the other manipulations/emotional/pyschological/control issues still typical of someone with NPD. I have had my confidence eradicated by this marriage - that is one of reasons I am in counselling. I wish I had known about NPD years ago and MN as I have also become a very isolated person. However, there have been other problems like alcoholism, which I had never come across before in my life before this marriage, and I used to think alcohol excess was to blame for alot of things - I know of course now that this is not the case. So, together with counselling, I am doing things like studying for qualifications to give me the work tools to become independent, together with building my confidence in other areas also.

I am well aware that I have had to 'shut down my natural personality' all the time with my H. If he is typical of someone with NPD, then they do not want to be bothered with anyone else's needs in life - only initially to reel you in. You have to become very self-sufficient mentally in some respects as the person with NPD has nothing, on a personal level, to give you.

Shutting down my emotions towards my H is, I am finding, giving me more emotional space in other areas of my life. In my experience, people with NPD are emotional vampires.

This has been really fascinating and eye opening for me to read - thankyou everyone for being so open and honest about what you have gone through.

I realise that there is a huge difference between people with PDs who are aware of the fact and prepared to get help, and those who are not. For me (and I know this is the experience of many women with BPD) it was actually a huge reliff when I was finally diagnosed as firstly I now had a reason for all the weird stuff in my head, and also because now there was something I could do to make it better. I'll probably always have BPD, but it will not rule my life, I won't let it! Or let it rule my dh's or dcs lives either.

There also seems to be a huge difference between NPD and the others - it seems so much more extreme, scarey, violent, and seems to be one that people just can't accept they have themselves. I have a huge amount of respect for the women here who have challenged it and walked away. Sometimes there is just nothing you can do to help, and I know that if I was in denial, still lying, drinking, raging, that it would be perfectly fair if dh was to leave me - and take the kids too!

I don't know the cause of NPD? One of the big theories with borderline is that it is linked back to abuse/desertion in childhood or early adolesence, which is what happened to me. I am damaged, and will always be damaged, because of my mother. I don't think, though, that this gives me the right to go out and damage others, which is why I am working so hard in therapy to make sure it won't. I come from several generations of damaged women and it stops here - I will not damage my lovely daughters.

I'll keep listening in, if you don't mind. Its really helpful to see it all from an outside pov.

Thinking of you all.