Personality Disorder - any success stories of living with them?

[feelingpositivemum]

Just that really, is there anyone out there who has successfully changed the way they are and react to someone with a PD (abusive) to make a success of the relationship?

(Really, could I have changed the way I reacted to my exH and forced him to change his behaviour. Did my lack of boundaries make it worse, and if I developed some would he have responded positively?)

autumnlight, he is still violent ?

even though SS have been involved because of his violence ?

I see you on all these threads, theorising and sympathising and sounding very switched-on

but then I really think that you should get out of your relationship

it seems to me that the time for talking about it is well-passed

forgive me, and I will get told off for this, but I just don't get it

you have all the answers, you understand fully you are in an abusive relationship, you have all the coping mechanisms (it seems)...but why the hell are you still with him ?

Are you building up courage, Autumnlight? Or more exactly, perhaps, reframing your identity? I remember you said you'd been 'conditioned' - you've been with your oppressor for a very long time, haven't you?
I'm so pleased you're continuing with your counsellor ... as long as your counsellor isn't Tarty's ex

sorry, just back from therapist. I sounded a bit psychobabble there

Sometimes you have to build yourself up a bit before you can make the physical break. Living with someone like this wears you down and sucks the life out of you.

I have to say I was stunned to learn in the course of my divorce and custody negotiations that my ex's mental health history would only be taken into account wrt custody if I had the money to pay for an independent psychiatric exam, the nerve to have my children get represented by a lawyer of their own, and to put them through the process of testifying, psychological exams, etc. Apparently the right to privacy of someone with well-documented mental health problems that have contributed to violence and abuse trump the rights of a spouse and children to peace of mind or physical security. We have taken the 'problem' of being labelled too far when someone who has been physically abused by a spouse can't use that abuser's mental health records (without spending a lot of money she doesn't have and jumping herself and her children through many horrible hoops) to try to convince a court that past behaviour is a strong indicator of future behaviour.

In the interests of a fair hearing courts need specific evidence from independent expert witnesses. Again labels are not that important. It's the behaviour, the effect the behaviour has on others and the risk to children that are relevant. Medical records don't answer these questions and courts rely on the expert to assist in making decisions by explaining technical details of the case the judge doesn't understand.

'Someone attaching a laymen's label of mental illness to support their plight to save face and to discredit and/or silence another person is just another form of abuse.'

That is the polar opposite of what is happening...

What I see is people here desperately trying to save their own lives and those of their children.

Do you think that the victims of these poor vulnerable PDs wanted to have a lifetime of depression, confusion and misery? Do you think we have all made it all up because we are horrible people?

You are blaming the victims here. Why is that?

You also speak in sweeping generalisations, lumping all PDs together, which is something that no-one else has done.

You make me feel like the therapist I had years ago who told me to go home and be nice to my husband, when I first had suicidal thoughts and had gone to her in desperation. Instead of identifying the cause of my distress for the reality it was...an abusive and PDed H, I was given drugs to render me emotionally numb and therefore more compliant and accepting of the situation I was in.

Many years later I can see how wrong she was. My depression and distress was a direct result of the treatment I had received at the hands of my birth family and my marriage family.

It's interesting that you state that amateurs cannot diagnose PDs. I run little tests every now and then to see if the Ns I am sadly connected to react in the ways I expect them to ..and guess what? They never disappoint me! Even my children notice.

Expert witnesses? Look at the problems some of them have caused over the past few years.

My ex-H paid an expert witness many thousands of pounds to discredit me in court. I have never read such a load of twaddle in all my life. It was such a pack of lies that it was thrown out of court.

I didn't need to call my own expert, as my ex-H couldn't help himself, and was as arrogant and lacking in self-awareness in front of the judge as he was in real life.

Oh dear, I seem to have hit a nerve.

"Do you think that the victims of these poor vulnerable PDs wanted to have a lifetime of depression, confusion and misery? Do you think we have all made it all up because we are horrible people?"

No of course I don't. But the best way to deal with it is get professional help. Ongoing criticism is unproductive in bringing about change, isn't a good coping strategy and tends to make people feel more depressed and confused.

"You also speak in sweeping generalisations, lumping all PDs together, which is something that no-one else has done."

lol - but that's just what you have done. The topic of the thread was Personality Disorder - any success stories of living with them?"

You seem quite obsessed with the thread title, STIDW, despite multiple apologies for it by multiple people. You know the title can't be changed. What are you hoping to achieve?

Professional help for whom? For the person trying to cope with life with a partner who has a PD, or for the person with the PD? In my case it took professional help from the police to convince my ex that he just might have been wrong to have hit me and tried to strangle me. How could I possibly have convinced him that maybe he needed professional help. He still refers to the day I called the police as "the day you wanted to have me arrested" -- it's not "the day I nearly killed you". And I overheard him telling his Dear Mother on the phone a week or so after that incident "She doesn't love me, she doesn't want me, she just wants my money" (????? )

STIDW, my ex came across as a completely rational, high-functioning professional member of society, a lawyer, unluckily for me. He was actually completely irrational and operated from a pov of kill or be killed in his own home (I think his profession actually channeled that side of his personality very effectively). When assessing the risk my ex posed and continues to pose to my children, I believe details such as his suicide threats, his use of knives, his threats of violence, and any details he may have revealed to his psychiatrist should have been taken into account by the courts without my having to go to extra expense to gain that much of a fair hearing for myself and my children. Expert witnesses and the like are only available if you can pay for them.

mathanxiety, I meant getting professional help was the best way for the "victims of these poor vulnerable PDs" to deal with it.

You may well have a point but there is no good in wishing the system is different when it isn't and you can't do anything to change it. We all have to work within the system as it is the best we can.

STIDW or whatever your name is....I am not the OP. I have been very careful to emphasise that I only have experience in one area.

Why are you so triumphant at 'hitting a nerve'?

Why would you want to hit a nerve? Many of the people on this thread are damaged and frightened. Why would winding them up be your agenda?

Joy and triumph at causing other people distress is a marker for an N. But you should know that as you are such an expert.

And the question in the OP was ' has anyone been successful at living with them?' I don't see hundreds of people rushing forward to say they have been. What I see is many people whose lives have been destroyed. And all these people are getting professional help as far as I can see.

Sadly though, in my experience, the 'professionals' can leave a lot to be desired when it comes to mental health. Self-help groups have often been more useful than a professional with only theoretical and academic interest. In many spheres.

Why on earth do you think I'm triumphant at hitting a nerve or I'm winding them up just because I'm expressing another viewpoint?

Yes, professionals can sometimes leave a lot to be desired and self help groups can be very therapeutic when they give information, advice, guidance and support and encourage members to be both altruistic and cathartic.

The flip side is that information, advice, and guidance given by self help groups can often be unreliable, or plain wrong, sometimes with disastrous results. Also when there is polarisation a sense of grievance can easily be ratcheted up and group members encouraged to engage in destructive and unproductive strategies.

STIDW
Oh dear, I seem to have hit a nerve.

How horribly smug and unkind of you. So pleased you managed to score a point here. You made your point about the title of the thread so now either try to be helpful or fuck off.

My children are going to have to have a lawyer because our dispute has gone on so long, mainly because he keeps not turning up to final hearings or changing what he wants.

My children are going to have to see another psychololgist to check they really are saying what they think (they are only 6 and 8)- even thought DD1 has counselling from NSPCC and has been in a prgramme for children from violent homes - apparently nspcc are not impartial enough so she has to tell yet another person how she feels as well as the lawyer, the new cafcass officer and anyone else he throws at us.

I cannot afford a lawyer yet alone an expert witness - i have to be careful not to emphasise the dv too much or i look like i have an axe to grind

neverending and terrifying and no one can help me, not if i cannot afford to pay for them.

tarty, my heart goes out to you.

Stick with it and just love your children. In the end, they will know.

In the end, these difficult people always show their true colours. They have so much arrogance they just can't help it. (Again I emphasise I speak only of Ns.)

What was worth more to me than any money I may have won was the knowledge that the judge AND my ex-h's lawyer AND his barrister all thought he was a grade-A Bastard. After years of being told I was over-reacting and ridiculous, to find that it actually wasn't me was incredible.

I wish you all the strength you need to get through this.

God, the sad trail of destruction goes on for so long, doesn't it? ... And you have to keep putting yourself and your children through it, just to put an end to 'your' part of the trail.

Wishing you courage & strength, Tarty, and a helping hand when you need it.

tarty i wish you well too. our situations are very similiar,yet my children have been listened to,and i've so far got away with the children not having to see him. he's still quibbling over wanting phone contact. cafcass are looking into wether its suitable,meanwhile he is supposed to be having a psychological assesment next

he's refusing and not turning up for court also,so my sol is hoping to get it dismissed and a section ? filed to prevent further attempts to drag me back to court......been going on for 2 years now,and he's loved the attention. i wish it were this easy for you too.

A section 91.14 order prevents further applications without leave of the court.

tartyhighheels, what avenues have you explored? Presumably you aren't eligible for legal aid but when you need public funding to get protection from domestic violence you may
qualify for assistance even if your income
is above the limits set out.

If you don't qualify for legal aid and are on a low income you can now get advice from the Community Legal Services and it's worth exploring local law clinics. Also some solicitors and barristers do pro bono work. Alternatively bar school pupils or lawyers in other areas will sometimes act as a McKenzie Friend.

No matter what legal help you may qualify for, the system still protects the privacy of mental health records and makes women who have suffered dv look like shrill harpies with an axe to grind, where custody and visitation issues are concerned. An abuser's mental health records and the privacy of same trump all other considerations, ime. In addition, there's the 'father's rights' buzzword to go up against.

I qualified for free legal aid, and quite frankly I got what I paid for. That's the legal system; that's the way it works, in a nutshell. My children, all except the oldest, of whom exH is afraid, have been forced to spend every other weekend with a man who once told me he would prefer to have his children fear him than love him (a statement known in legalese as 'hearsay').

A section 91.14 order prevents further applications without leave of the court

yes been there - he comes back says he was stressed and in a bad way and we start again... he uses mental health to get back into sourt adn then everyone seems to forget about it again - the last time he told them he had had a breakdown and was suicidal - and then everyone seems to forget about it again - really surreal.

I have been doing this for abour 3 out of 4 years since he left - the problem is that it is fuelled by the desire for attention so it is neverending - first he wanted them to move school so he could pick them up once a mont - then he wanted to take them out of the jurisdiction to take them to cuba and argentina and then shared residence to reduce maintenance , now its contact, which has gone from two weeks summer with passports, week xmas and easter and every other weekend.... then just weekends and then in a contact centre which was his only option but all of these require me to defend why it is a bad idea get evidence etc. I fought his lawyer for over a year and now he is self representing its even harder because its very random shit - one child wants to never see him again the other would like to but only if she is protected (when it came down to actually meeting him though she made herself ill with her diabetes and ran away from school becuase she was scared) so i put a stop to it until her counselling can offer her some support as its taken ages to get it.

I have had more free half hours than hot dinners - i have the involvement of worht services in my area whi say i am a high risk of further dv - he continues to harasss me but just within the law - the has even started up a fathers supprt gtoup in our area....... i really do have a mountain of evidence agaisnt him re, neglect of the children and all that ignoring what he has done to me - this is just stuff he has done since he left.

He is receiving top end lawyer advice paid for by his mum but knows they will sympathise with me if the guy comes into court so i am facing an absolute barrage.

I have a too high income to bget legal aid - my partner and i had some money but chose to use it for a deposit for running away house in france - feckless you might think but a lawyer will not stop him - he will come back again and again i know that so i am not going to use the money that bought us some freedom from him. When we are at our french house we are all different which is a bit sad but true becuase we all know he has no clue where we are.

He is now claiming that the children are suffering parental alienation syndrome -

In the meantime - i have made a great relationship, we have a little boy and he is a lovely daddy to the girls and we are expecting another baby later this year. So in a sense all is well if this would just stop then we could actually enjoy the lovely life we have made. It is constantly blighted by this - we have to leave the country for all holidays and stuff because if its a birthday or something he starts again.

He has also asked for me to be psychologically assessed and the children too.. thank goodness, mentally speaking i am fine and my records say so too but my poor kids having to go all through that again.

My partner is looking for a job abroad but clearly we have to be careful and not run and make things worse for the children. Both have health issues and we need to be in a place which we can access help for diabetes and coeliacs - there is a lot to consider.

I take your points about legal advice but i have taken the tack of just telling the truth and turning up and doing whatever the judge says... apparently i need to be more tactical than that and getting the health records is key becuase it is going to crack things open and hopefully i wont just look like a mad ex crying dv - he wont let me have a divorce either, has made me wait 5 years

all the hallmarks of a nutter eh? you would have thought it would have been obvious to the court but i feel constantly i have to prove myself.

I may be having someone from victim support come with me into court becuase i do need some support but again i have to be careful not to emphasise the dv too much - it's a tricky one

tarty,i think the key to your case is finding a decent cafcass officer....or rather,being allocated one.

cos truly,mine has never asked me to play down any dv,i have never had to provide any evidence either. i think whats on both our records,police call outs etc,has been adequate. from the beginning cafcass officer has opposed him seeing the children and was the one who requested psych assessment to judge. she said she had never met a man like my ex,she couldnt believe he was telling her all about the dv he has committed and was almost 'proud' of it.

also,a big issue for cafcass was his refusal to be consistant with calling the kids and also the fact he wont recognise his dv has caused the children emotional harm....the psychiatrist picked up on that too. dont know if that helps,but those two issues are important with cafcass

AnyFucker - my H is not violent now. I did have years of that and never reported him once to the police. He had to start controlling his behaviour, physically, a few years ago when SS got involved. I will never forgive him. And, a bully will always be a bully underneath and as he drinks, could be unpredictable.

Wee i assume that our dv stuff is obvious too - my children sadly have winessed it too and the older is having help - so i am sur eif anyone thought i was lying i would have been told by now - he comtinually denies it of core and at one point said i kicked him (i did but i was being strangled in front of my children)

our old cafcass officer had his number i felt - her report came out that he should only have a little supervised access but after months of waiting my daughter just lost the plot really badly and just wouldn't go.

We are being allocated a new cafcass officer one who will be a guardian for the children so we can get a lawyer i will not be meeting them until the day of the next hearing in march.... not a lot of help then, and i assume that if i don't like them or dont feel they understand then i cannot ask for a new one.

I was told by a lawyer a long time ago to be careful with the judge we were sitting with talking about dv (ironically she is a woman) - dv is not a reason to stop contact. But we now have a new judge who scares the shite out of me and has basically said that he has to have contact. ex is meant to write to children but doens't becuase he didn't feel their replies were of the standard he should expect (he actually said that in court!)

It does all hinge on me getting someone nice and a lawyer that sees sense too - someone pointed out to me the other day on MN that it was very easy to end up on the wrong side of them too, so i have to be careful.