in pain, confused and can't see a way forwards.

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

I've posted about DH more times than a care to remember. But lately things were better. He has been depressed for nearly 3 years. I supported him, got him help and he turned on me.

He spent all of last year (while I was preg with DC3) blaming me for everything and basically making my life a living hell.

I kicked him out, then we worked on things, he changed meds and things got better (slowly).

He's still ill, but much better. He's worked throughout and has put a lot of time into rebuilding his relationship with the DCs.

I think I just want a bit of sympathy really. I don't have anyone to talk to in RL at the moment.

I had a minor op this week. He took me to hospital (no one else to do it and he wasn't keen on missing work but agreed) and was completely distant and cold even though he knew I was terrified. I challenged him on it and he said nothing. On the way home from hospital I told him how upset I was. Nothing.

In the evening I begged him to talk to me, even though I was tired, in pain and still woozy from the general anaesthetic.

Still nothing.

And now he's saying that comfort is a "two way street", that "if I don't ask for help he can't be expected to give it" (bearing in mind I begged him that first evening for him just to talk to me).

I'm on my own with 2DCs, the house is a tip, I'm still too ill to sort it and everything he promised to do is undone. I even had to clean things before I could give the DCs their breakfast.

I don't want to talk to him. I don't know how to get passed this.

If I'm honest I thought that if he could look after me this week it would make up for all the crap he put me through when I was pregnant. It would prove he was different and could be there for me when I needed him.

Sorry for the very self-indulgent post. Just feeling so sad and tired of it all.

When will it end?

one step at a time, yes

if he is in denial, what do you think is going to make him move out on Saturday ?

We live a long way from where I want to, from my friends and my family. If he won't move out, then I will. And that means moving us all far away.

He knows I will do it if I say I will (and I will). The only thing tying us to here is him and his work and Ds1's school. But DS1 has moved before and has friends in the other place.

Eventually we will move back there anyway. But I'm not thinking that far ahead yet.

I do wish I had someone in RL to come round. But I only have acquaintances here. And I don't think I could dump all this on them.

I'm feeling strong and calm today though, and the sun is shining so things can't be all bad.

Could probably do with a bit of reassurance if anyone has any going.

Hi - I'm new to this thread but have read about your struggles before. I have some relevant experience as my DH has history of depression.

You have done everything you possibly could to make this work - you DO deserve a happy ending but we don't always get what we deserve. Your DP has clearly been depressed but that doesn't excuse all his bad behaviour and selfishness. Often people who are narcisstic/have a personality disorder/are pathologically selfish will get depression because the way they behave tends to isolate them from support and impact on the success they would like in life. It is ok to feel sympathy for his depression but he has been told in clear terms what is and isn't acceptable behaviour and he has chosen his path. If that leads to more pain for him ultimately then that's tough. Life has consequences for all of us even if we have a label of an illness. And FWIW unless he was so ill that he was unable to work or was completely out of touch with reality or needed hospital admission his illness does not stop him being responsible for himself - if he went out and broke the law his depression would be no excuse.

Your children will survive and will benefit from not living in a toxic environment where they are learning scary lessons about how to treat others. Their future partners and children will thank you. You will benefit from no longer having to walk on egg shells.

I wish you all the very best. x

Mollybob, what a kind and thoughtful post. I hadn't thought about the crime thing. And you're right. Not only has he been able to keep himself going at work and around other people, he has excelled in his work while "failing" at home.

He can do it. He chooses not to. For some reason (presumably because I let him) he decided to treat me this way.

He still says he doesn't do this on purpose, and that he can't help it, and that I should give him another chance.

I pointed out that if that were true then he is guaranteeing that I would never be safe again (since he can't control it and it comes so out of the blue) if I were to stay with him.

He keeps saying he loves me and he knows I love him, but he doesn't listen when I tell him that that's irrelevant.

I'm trying to stop replying when he questions me or says something daft. I'm just repeating myself over and over. But it's hard to break the cycle.

A couple of weeks ago there were no egg shells. I could express my feelings freely and he was caring and would respond.

It's the operation. It's the knowledge beforehand that I was vulnerable and would need him that made him spiral.

Or that made him choose to spiral.

Dammit I'm struggling again. I need to get stable. It's too exhausting.

He can't handle it when you're not the strong one - but in life no one can be the strong one all the time. Better that when you're struggling to only have to carry yourself and the DCs. "I love you" means nothing - it's actions that matter. I am so sorry you have to face this.

Crunchy, it's not "because you let him". When you say that, you're again taking responsibility for his choices. He does it to you because you're an available target. It's actually quite likely he does it work, too - only in subtler ways, so he can keep his power base. Is there a regular pattern of subordinates leaving and/or taking time off with stress disorders?

Last night I read your old threads. You're kidding yourself about it being all right before - it wasn't. You were tying yourself in knots, performing psychological origami on yourself, trying to 'manage' him, all the way through. The operation is the crisis that let you see clearly for a few moments. If it hadn't been the operation, it would have been something else: you've been struggling with your self-delusion for a long time. You would have seen the reality, whatever happened.

And this is the reality. I'm very, very sorry.

I made a poster for my wall; it says "Face The Horror" - that's what it feels like, isn't it? Horror. I made the poster to remind myself that scary things lose their power when you face up to them! It's easier to deal with what you can see. You have seen, Crunchy. You've done the hardest part. Well done you!

Now keep going. Think of how lovely and safe you will feel, with your DCs, living back near your friends and family. How great it will be for the kids when you all chill out together, no stress, no hassle, no thinking about someone else's mood ... no fear.

Keep going, you're doing great!

I think I might go back and re-read them myself.

And he was being different of late. But if he can't do it consistently it doesn't mean anything

He even noticed I was anxious about things before I did and comforted and supported me. It was such a shock to the system and so nice having someone care for me like that again. I'd forgotten what was normal.

I want to stamp my foot and scream, "This isn't fair!" like a petulant teenager

Hello YKNotC

I'm an occasional poster and have just read all the way through this thread. Really I just wanted to add my support and sorrow that you are going through such a difficult time, especially with a young baby and not many people you can turn to, locally.

I also know a little bit about depression, I'm a HCP and have worked a lot with sufferers. It is an awful disease and people can sometimes feel that they are completely in its sway, they have no control over their behaviour or motivation or whatever. HOWEVER. Depression is essentially a negative disease. It makes people NOT do things - ie it makes them emotionally distant, cold, flat; it makes them unable to get out of bed; it makes them not bother to wash their hair; it makes them opt out of life. It doesn't make them actively seek out opportunities to hurt people "because they can" or "because you were angry". That's not the depression. That's HIM. It's stripping away his facade, stopping him from bothering to behave in a way that is acceptable to you.

Really sorry to post something a bit brutal as my first post, I just really feel upset on your behalf that you've been in such an awful position for so long. I hope you can stay strong and I hope you will feel much much better when he goes.

Did try and ring you but will try again later
My texts are not going through

Keep posting and keep strong
You know deep down what you are doing is right for you and your Dcs
he has had sooooo many chances to sort this out and he did`nt and this is not your fault
((hugs))

Really sound post, BloodyHardWork. It's spot on, Crunchy

Bloodyhardwork, thank you. I need the brutality. I do.

So, the depression stops him from hiding his true feelings and the anger that was simmering all along, is released? Is that right?

Just has a call from his GP - I told the surgery that he was suicidal when I asked for the appointment to happen today - and he's going to refer him to a psychiatrist when he sees him later. So that's that rexponsibility taken away from me.

Nifty, I wish I could be so sure. All I know is There's a storm a-brewing and we need to hunker down. Thank you for being there (albeit far far away!)

You're damn right, it isn't fair! Go ahead, stamp

Obviously I don't know him and it sounds like he might not be able to articulate what goes on in his brain anyway so it's hard to know about whether or not it's "anger" driving what he does. It might be all sorts of things. He might be a narcissistic controlling monster. He might have some very deep seated resentment of you that he is too passive aggressive to address directly. Or he might just be someone who has a side that's quite immature and self-involved and doesn't really care about other people that much.

All that "insightful" stuff isn't really insightful, or at least it doesn't sound it to me, it just sounds like over the years and maybe especially over the time last year when he was making efforts to get you back, he worked out that you like to hear him saying things along the lines of "it's my fault - except it isn't, it's the depression - I take repsonsibility - except I don't because it's actually the depression". So he's trying it again. And it's sort of working, a bit.

PLEASE try to stop taking responsibility for him. Making doctor's appointments isn't your job, and it just buys into the idea that you have a role to play in making sure he's OK, which you probably know by now isn't the case.

It's so awful, I really feel for you. Don't forget to have a few grapes today, please ...

I have eaten my first proper meal since Thursday, today. So that's one thing getting sorted at least.

BloodyHard, I will try.

Oh I don't deserve this! I don't! I'm quite nice really! People like me! I've been there for him!

Bloody stupid little man!

You don't deserve it. You are nice. He is, as you point out, bloody stupid. From what you've said, he had a really good thing going for quite a while - but he's too busy feeling sorry for himself and letting himself off when he behaves atrociously that he's going to lose it.

Cling on to your knowledge about what you deserve, it will serve you well.

[I sound like someone trying to be an agony aunt, don't I?! Sorry! I just always get so riled up when people sit and take so much crap and don't realise it's not ok.]

BloodyHard, it's all good. Don't you worry

Do you have any views on relationship counselling with a depressive?

Oo - hard one. My initial reaction is NOOOOOOOO - it's just prolonging the agony and you'd really be relying on the poor counsellor to be able to see through the stuff that he would be bound to say to try and get everyone off his back. And, highly trained as they are, that's very hard to do, especially if the person believes what they're saying when they're saying it, if you see what I mean.

On the other hand, you really sound like you're not prepared to just walk away. So maybe another go, with a shot at relationship counselling as well, might be one way of doing it. Bear in mind, though, that the counsellor isn't there to be on your side to get him to see the error of your ways. They're there to try and help you to get to a point where you can have a relationship that's OK for both of you.

I don't know, really. It's such a difficult situation and I really can't get away from the idea that you're slightly clutching at straws (very understandably ).

I mean the error of his ways, obviously, not the error of yours.

I'm off now, but will be thinking of you. Keep eating and keep remembering about the deservingness.

Bloodyhard, those were my thoughts.

I just can't keep the doubts out of my head - although him being here and being a selfish arse in front of me does help simplify things.

Have just spent a long time reading over last year's posts (Badhusband was his name)

I sound so defeated (I post as BadHusbandswife further on)

Consider my reality checked.

I haven't read all the thread but I just wanted to add my support. My dh suffered from depression for most of our relationship, and I know how hard it is. I hope things work out well for you and your dc.

Re relationship counselling with a depressive - my tuppence.

Hmmmm. Difficult one. Especially as the OP's DP is behaving in an emotionally abusive manner and there are examples here on MN of EA men running rings round counsellors and making the abused partner more and more convinced that it's all her.

But I have been through counselling with my DH and it helped us. Different circumstances as he wasn't anywhere near as EA as YKN's partner - when my DH was first ill he did withdraw affection and blame me for his illness but he WAS too ill to work, wasn't eating, was properly psychotic - believed he was rotting from the inside and could smell the decay, was burning himself with a lighter and not feeling anything, was so ill he ended up in hospital so I have chosen to forgive him and in his defence. And when during a time when he was still fairly ill I ended up in hospital with a miscarriage which upset him greatly and he struggled to cope with his pain, never mind mine but he still sat and held my hand even though he couldn't do much else - he WAS there for me.

I guess I'm not exactly unbiased but if my DH can be that ill with depression and not let me down then so can anyone else if they really want to.

The counselling helped though because we were reminded of why we fell in love, we spent time together talking about us, he heard me properly explaining how much I love him and realised I wasn't with him just because of our DCs/ out of habit and I learned how to withdraw a little when he is struggling and not tie my self esteem so much into his moods which he can't control and I certainly can't. And we both learned better ways to express ourselves when times are tough. He has had a further hospital admission with his depression/bipolar since then and our relationship was not as impacted on when he was so sick as the first time.

Not sure if any of that is relevant to you so please ignore if not.

AandO thank you.

mollybob, it's interesting that your DH sounds a lot more ill and a lot less selfish than mine.

I do know that if he were to abuse the sessions I would just leave and not feel bad for it. We did go to a couple last year and they were useless (although the counsellor had a lovely emotional rollercoaster herself when DH went from promising the world and her believing him, to me providing evidence of his current behaviour).

I know I keep saying he's not as bad as last year, and he isn't. But he is on the way down and in denial. And I know what is coming next. I'm not being naive (at least I'm trying not to be)

I really appreciate all the replies. They're making me feel sane again.