in pain, confused and can't see a way forwards.

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

I've posted about DH more times than a care to remember. But lately things were better. He has been depressed for nearly 3 years. I supported him, got him help and he turned on me.

He spent all of last year (while I was preg with DC3) blaming me for everything and basically making my life a living hell.

I kicked him out, then we worked on things, he changed meds and things got better (slowly).

He's still ill, but much better. He's worked throughout and has put a lot of time into rebuilding his relationship with the DCs.

I think I just want a bit of sympathy really. I don't have anyone to talk to in RL at the moment.

I had a minor op this week. He took me to hospital (no one else to do it and he wasn't keen on missing work but agreed) and was completely distant and cold even though he knew I was terrified. I challenged him on it and he said nothing. On the way home from hospital I told him how upset I was. Nothing.

In the evening I begged him to talk to me, even though I was tired, in pain and still woozy from the general anaesthetic.

Still nothing.

And now he's saying that comfort is a "two way street", that "if I don't ask for help he can't be expected to give it" (bearing in mind I begged him that first evening for him just to talk to me).

I'm on my own with 2DCs, the house is a tip, I'm still too ill to sort it and everything he promised to do is undone. I even had to clean things before I could give the DCs their breakfast.

I don't want to talk to him. I don't know how to get passed this.

If I'm honest I thought that if he could look after me this week it would make up for all the crap he put me through when I was pregnant. It would prove he was different and could be there for me when I needed him.

Sorry for the very self-indulgent post. Just feeling so sad and tired of it all.

When will it end?

how could anyone be angry with you crunchy ?

the urge to understand is a strong, driving, human one

even when we know it will hurt us more

you must be bone-tired

how many more early-hours-of-the-morning talks where you try and make him see sense can you take ??

I would have thought ...no more

AF it's all my own doing. I think I will be sleeping tonight!

I told him that he had treated me worse than he would treat an animal. If a dog was at the vet and bit him because it was nervous, he would have comforted it.

I am shattered. The DCs have all watched far too much TV this weekend.

I'll just keep putting one foot in front of the other and not think about what's coming. God I wish I was feeling physically better!

get some rest

naver mind the dc's...you will make it up to them when you are physically better

I'm sending you virtual hugs, Crunchy, sod the manly pat!

Yes, I understand. You had to do it, because it's the first step towards undoing the damage he wrought on your mind. Well done.

So glad you will sleep. Dream of the calmest, most beautiful & healing place you can imagine

Tomorrow is going to be very tough to get through.

I know there is a big bit of me that hopes he'll call in sick and prove I mean more to him than his job. I also know that he won't do that. I also know that it's probably a good thing that he won't do that. And I also know that it is pathetic of me to want him to do that.

Argh! Why did I let my self-worth get tied up in his delusions again?! Why did I trust him?!

He said earlier that I should never have trusted him, that I was right before and that he couldn't be trusted. As though it was my fault that I hadn't taken my own advice! And he says it in such a "Poor you I'm a horrible man" kind of way that if I wasn't to listen to what he is actually saying to me I might think he was thinking about me.

Can someone please post something advocating him not taking the day off and explaining to my stoooopid brain that it's for the best? So I can read it in the morning and feel stronger instead of worthless?

[Too bloody needy emoticon]

"He said earlier that I should never have trusted him"
Nice one!

So. Not only is everything your fault, including the fact that he's a horrible selfish & deceitful control freak, it's also your fault that he's hurt you - because if you hadn't trusted him, then he couldn't have abused your trust!

It would be beautiful if it weren't so absurd.

Crunchy, you did not make him into a double-faced nutcase. You didn't force him to be horrible - in fact, you 'rewarded' him for being nice, which would have worked if he were a normal human being. Sane, rational human beings seek mutual approval, love and trust. Only abusers see trust as an invitation to abuse.

Picture, if you will, a herd of gazelle grazing peacefully on the savannah. Picture a lion. The lion sneaks up on the gazelle, selects one within easy reach - and rushes to the kill. Is it the dead gazelle's fault the lion sank its teeth in? Did the gazelle 'make it easy' for the lion? No, it was just getting its lunch. It was in the wrong place at the time. If the lion hadn't killed that gazelle, it would have picked another.

Honestly. The sooner you get enough space to regain your own mind, the better.

Hrrmph! Sweet dreams

will it change anything if he did, crunchy ?

or would it be another empty gesture ?

you are not worthless

his sense of what is important is skewed, whether he takes the day off or not...

use tomorrow to get some space to think about what you want

his presence is confuddling you, falling into well-rehearsed patterns of thinking about where he is coming from

never mind that...where are you going to take this ?

is he leaving or staying ?

Please say he's leaving.

Please say you don't care whether he goes to work, stays home, or goes gazelle-hunting.

Please say you're claiming back your own home, your own life and your own mind.

You can say you're doing it for the DCs, who deserve a sane & happy mother.

AF I hate to say it, but in honesty it could.

He's being decidedly odd this evening. Spent 2 hours on his own upstairs doing God-knows-what. Then cooked supper for everyone and has cleaned and tidied in a way I haven't seen in weeks (and I know that's to "win me back" so don't worry I see through it). Then he sobbed and I told him that although I care about the fact that he is sad, the problem here is that he spends all his time thinking about him and so do I. No one is thinking about me!

Then he brought up the subject of access, so we discussed that calmly (I think he was trying to shock me into backing down). Then he sobbed again. Pulled himself together again. Then I told him that I know he is going to get very angry over the next few weeks and that if he hurts me or the children there would be consequences.

He shot me a look of pure anger at that point, and said he couldn't believe I would threaten him like that. I said that in the past he has hurt all of us and that I would not let that be an option. That if he hurts us I would have no reason to lie anymore. I would have no reason to hide all the things that he has done from everyone we know.

He said he would NEVER hurt our children and he was offended that I would say he would. He seems to have forgotten how things got last year. So I reminded him. He then sighed, said I was right, he wouldn't hurt us. And now he is feeding the baby with a forced "super enthusiastic good dad" grin on his face.

If he was a ball he would be bouncing off the walls. You can smell the desparation.

And I'm so stupid that, yes, it would make a difference if he stayed tomorrow. And I do care. I'm the gazelle who chased the fecking lion!

Argh!

a difference in the long term ???

I don't think so, and neither do you

dittany I think that's the problem right there. I do think he's a bit mad. In fact I think he's probably actually crazy.

Which makes me think he could be cured.

My family all know what he has done (at least most of it) as do a lot of our mutual friends. But no one who lives around here does, none of his new friends and none of his family (who are an emotionally detached lot to say the least).

He was a good man. He was. The man I married was a good man.

Do people really have personality reversals? Maybe that's my problem, I can't see how he could change so completely. He really was not abusive before this depression took over.

(Have ordered the Lundy book BTW)

Last year he would punch and once headbutted a wall while angry. I felt very frightened. He never hit me but he was intimidating.

I already had DS1 when we met, and to all intents and purposes he is his dad. And again, up until this whatever-it-is he was a hands on, loving father.

You're right about the fantasies.

He's just asked me whether I've considered that it was actually my anger and not his that triggered all of this. I have just very patiently and wearily talked to him for about 15 minutes about it. He thanked me for remaining so calm, and I thanked him (again very calmly) for reminding me why this has to happen and pointed out that him asking me to justify my feelings etc. again and again is abuse in itself.

I think he was expecting me to be angry, so he could feel hard-done-by.

He has to go.

please don't stay up with him again 'til the early hours

you are going round in circles

go to bed, and sleep

you cannot think straight...sleep-deprivation is yet another form of control, you know

I don't mind at all. You're right about him always being PA (hated confrontation of any kind) and that nasty-drunk thing.

I suppose I'd pushed that out of my mind. He doesn't drink anymore, gave it up completely.

Yes I'm going to bed now AF!

Hadn't realised how late it had gotten!

Right. I'll be here re-reading the "Look at what is in front of you, woman!" posts, tomorrow.

Thank you. I feel strong.

good night x

things that i think about when i read your posts-

he's a dry drunk

you're completely co-dependent and almost hooked on the drama of it (i mean this most kindly as i know i've been the same).

you both have a pattern of operating... things are said and done in the same way, he knows how far he can push you, you know what you have to do to get the reaction from him that you want so badly, etc etc. trouble with it is, a relationship that operates this ways is EXHAUSTING and one person always calls the shots. it also has no space for the needs of children- it's a very selfish and immature way to conduct a relationship.

the 'other' him is just, well, him. a nastier him, a more childish him that can get away with being a knob because you let him.

you need to break the cycle and find some inner harmony. some strength to know what's acceptable and what's not.

blinks, a tough post to read, but a very good one.

I don't think he's a drunk (as such), he has never been able to handle his drink and it always let something out of him, but he would usually only drink very rarely (and even more rarely too excess). That said, it was very early in our relationship that I learnt that if he was drinking and not driving then I was not going out with him. Hindsight says that is odd and wrong.

I've never thought of myself of co-dependant, but I'm not sure I can deny it when accused of it. I think that living with a depressive you spend so much time in a state of emotional numbness that you are grateful when things are more dramatic. So I can't deny that one either. I get my "gambling addiction" fed, and he gets his power trip. And everyone loses out eventually, especially the DCs.

I have now, very gently, broached the subject with the DSes that H is going to move out. They seem ok with the idea. The reality will obviously be more painful. But I will be here for them every step of the way.

H is now completely in denial. Swinging between, "I'm so sorry I've abused you!" and "Your anger started all this, I'm not a bad man!". He can't cope with the fact that I feel so calm now.

I have an appointment for Wednesday with my GP (who is lovely and very understanding). And have made an appointment for H for this afternoon (I know, I know, but whether he keeps it or not is up to him, I'm not taking any further responsibility). I've done this because he has suggested that he is suicidal (and I know that's a textbook "don't leave me I'll die!" response, which is why I am handing him to his GP not dealing with it myself).

On Friday I was so sure that this was a blip that he would get through. His behaviour over the weekend has proved that is not the case.

It's time for me to move forward.

In my brain I have to look at things like this (but only for now so don't be angry with me):-

"He is moving out. This doesn't mean the end of our relationship forever. This just means I am protecting myself and my children from what I know is both coming and already here. The money wasted if this is a mistake doesn't matter. And if it isn't a mistake then it is best done sooner than later. Whatever happens this is a win-win scenario. If he goes he may be forced to get better (win). If he goes he may get worse and more angry but he won't be able to take it out on me or the DCs (win)."

I'm not at the stage where I can believe this is over forever. But then last Friday I wasn't at the stage where I believed he really had to move out. I need to take this one step at a time.

Sorry for the long ramble. I plan for him to move out this weekend. It is up to him to find somewhere to stay. He can move on Saturday.

I've been on the receiving end of an emotional skewering - and this is what your H is doing to you. You're being skewered and the skewer is being twisted every now and then to make sure that you feel that pain.

It takes an awful lot to get over that, but really, you have to get your strongest will together and call it a day. Your H is 1) an emotional abuser; 2) a controller; 3) well, if he wasn't narcisisstic, I'd bet my bottom dollar that he was on the spectrum there.

You DON'T have to live like this. You have the choice - although I know it's really, really hard to pull away - but for the sake your sanity and those of your DCs, you must.

Thanks Lemony. I really like the skewering analogy, that's what it feels like.