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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Yes it's another cliched 'he's having an affair' thread - HELP!!!

240 replies

MaggieMuggins · 26/01/2010 11:50

So, after trawling MN relationship threads for the last hour I can see that everything I am about to say is so 'classic' it's untrue

DH and I have been together for 14 years, married for 4 and DD is 15 months. I became suspicious that he was having an affair before Xmas - we have had the 'I'm just not very happy at the moment' conversation - and after a bit of snooping and a few pennies dropping I confronted him last night and told him that I knew there was something going on with him and his teaching assistant. (An interesting take on the boss-secretary cliche, no?)

I also told him that part of the reason that I'd been able to work it out was because the year before we decided to have a baby one of my own work colleagues had told me that they had fallen for me, and I had an emotional affair with him. Nothing really happened, and I worked through it all alone (it was the year that DH was doing his teacher training and I was at a really low ebb, very flattered by the attention but ultimately it was never going to go anywhere).

Anyway, he admitted that they had grown close (says they haven't kissed, but 'sort of' told each other that they have feelings). He also admitted that he had met her on Saturday when he went out for the afternoon, but says that they just met up and wandered round the shops. I think I believe him.

Anyway, DH and I have had a crap sex life for years and never really dealt with it. We are like two best friends sharing the same house/parenting. I have tried so many times over the years to talk to him about it but he's just buried his head in the sand, told me he loves me, ignored the problem. I would desperately love for us to get that spark back, and I can't cope with the lack of physical affection for much longer.

He says he doesn't know what he wants - before Xmas he was convinced he wanted to leave, but now he's not sure. Doesn't know how he feels about this OW. I've told him that he MUST talk to a friend, that's the one thing he has agreed to do. I told him I want to go to counselling but he said he needs time to think first.

I feel completely bereft and terrified of losing him. I am also angry that he has done this to me when I need him so much right now (am at threat of redundnacy at work, just to add insult to injury) and I am feeling physically unattractive and knackered from working full time and dealing with motherhood and trying to get to the gym and trying to have a social life and trying to keep the house nice. When we had DD I thought I had everything I wanted. What a complacent fool I have been.

OP posts:
IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 08/02/2010 20:43

Hi Maggie, hope things are going ok for you today? Have there been any developments?

Heated · 08/02/2010 21:37

Another spot on post from WhenWillIFeelNormal.

In fact, hope she doesn't mind but have c&p some of what's she's said for a male friend in a very similar situation, as her comments are so apt.

MaggieMuggins · 09/02/2010 11:00

No developments - have been off licking my wounds and feeling rather as I hacked into H's email and wish I hadn't. There wasn't a lot there of interest, so I set up an email address in the OW's name and set his mail to forward to it - and now he knows (although he hasn't said anything to me yet - probably because I haven't answered his phone calls).

I feel like I've let myself down. I can't control any of the things he's doing or saying but I can control my own behaviour. Seemed like a good idea after a bottle of wine and now I am going to have to 'fess up and apologise when I see him...

OP posts:
Aussieng · 09/02/2010 11:17

Aw Maggie it may not have been your finest hour but I wouldn't stand for being lectured to by someone who had cheated on me and not told me the truth about his actual intentions for over a week. When your partner is not honest with you sometimes you look for extreme alternative solutions.

AnyFucker · 09/02/2010 14:40

maggie, apologise just once, then tell him to shut up and get off his high horse if he starts nagging you

how did he find out ?

HappyWoman · 09/02/2010 15:18

dont worry about the looking - it is totally understandable. Say you are sorry for your bad behaviour (the looking) but if he rants and raves then it just proves his guilt even further. My h really does not mind me looking at all because he now has nothing to hide.

Yes you were wrong to look - but good on you at least he wont be able to lie about it anymore. And it doesnt cancel out his behaviour.

Stay strong

MaggieMuggins · 09/02/2010 15:32

I'm not worried about him lecturing me - I don't think he will, but I am annoyed with myself because he may tell the OW about it and add fuel to the fire ("well she's obviously a nightmare, you are better off out of it" etc) or tell friends/family, who at the moment are so proud of the way I am handling things...

Oh well. I'm not sure how he found out - maybe it logs in the sent mail??? I wouldn't make a very good spy would I!?

OP posts:
ReneRusso · 09/02/2010 15:42

What you did is completely understandable. Anyone who doesn't see that has no idea what you are going through at the moment.

HappyWoman · 09/02/2010 15:54

she many well say that - she will say anything at the moment to paint you in a bad light.

She would say you were a fool if you did nothing too - so dont give her a second thought - with a bit of luck she will trip herself up soon enough anyway if she says bad things about you.

And if he does confront you - lie and say it must have been him doing it to make you look as if you had looked.

When my ow thought she had 'won' (i had started divorce) she was not very nice about me and it was during one of these conversations that h said he finally saw her in a true light and it made him actually dislike her.

When he did finally get back to his 'right' mind and he recalled what had been happening he could see that she was supportive of him whilst making me look bad. He took full responsiblity for his part but being able to look at from a distance really helps.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 09/02/2010 16:10

Oh Maggie, I wouldn't worry about this at all. If anything, I can see a positive side to this, in that they have been relying on your dignity for far too long, to hold their secret. Maybe your actions will cause them to think you are a looser cannon than they'd bargained for - and it will get them worried that you might do something even more extreme, like telling the school or contacting her H.

I agree with HW too - chances are OW will let rip with a few choice words about you to your H - and his reaction will be interesting. He may well instinctively want to defend you. Don't know if you've got to that bit in Not Just Friends when Lara criticised Rachel's parenting - and Ralph defended Rachel to the hilt.

It might be more of an opportunity than you think, but at the very least, forgive yourself for a very minor slip during a hellish time. If he does say anything to you about it, I'd be defensive and tell him that since he has lied to you repeatedly, you will from now on make it your business to find out everything there is to know, so he'd better get used to that....

Any further thoughts on contacting the H?

MaggieMuggins · 09/02/2010 17:00

Thanks everyone. I wonder if he will actually confront me?? I'll let you know!!

Not sure about contacting her H, have discussed it with a couple of friends and their strong advice was not to - yet, anyway. I have no appetite for this at the moment and just want to have a few quiet days with no drama!

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HappyWoman · 09/02/2010 18:56

Yes and he will be worried that you may have printed them off too - and if you havent do so now.

The ow was scared i would send some of the emails she and h had sent, to other collegues. She was not complimentary about a few of them .

Get as much info as you can - about who the h is ect and when you are ready you may want to give him your version of events.

Cheryllou · 10/02/2010 15:36

HI Maggie, you asked me a question last week but only just back online - you remind me so much of myself it's scary! You asked me what I would have done differently and the answer is not much. I too had the urde to contact the other woman or her H, but like you thought what was the point? What would I say? I already know they are having an affair, I don't really want to add details and slanging matches into the mix. All I had left - and still do- is my girls and my dignity, and while he will regret his decision for the rest of his life in certain ways, I never will because I know I gave it all I could for my family.

Howver, I could have perhaps been a little firmer in making him stay away - if he really wanted us nothing would stop him coming back. althgouh he came back lots and lotI knoew in my heart it wasnt for me it was because he didn't feel happy being away and wanted 'the family' rather than me. This could have have worked I guess in time, but the marriage would have been weak and would have been deeply damaging to me.

I think the point here isn't to try and play all these tactics to entice him away from his other woman and 'win' him back - he's got to win you back for Christ's sake! I know everyone is firing advice at you, but here's what I would do - get hold of him for one 'last' talk. Prepare yourself for the fact that he will say he doesn't love you - of course he does, just not in the way you need right now. Ask him if the split is really, really what he wants and if he says yes, PLEASE take him at his word. I'm not saying he won't ever try and come back, but you have to start protecting yourself and if he comes back too soon, he will just keep having doubts and it will devestate you. However, if he still isn't sure, THAT IS HIS PROBLEM AND NOTHING YOU DO AT THIS STAGE WILL SOLVE IT.

Suggest he goes to Relate alone to sort out his feeling cos men are crap at talking to their mates. Then try and let him lie (ha...)

Like you, I still desperately want my family together, and here's what my Relate man said - prepare a two-pronged attack. Leave the door open for reconcilliation at some point by regaining your strength doing the things you like doing and making yourself feel good (hard to imagine at this stage) and have fun with your little one - you will be so much closer and that's something he will have to deal with. Be willing to talk, but don't weep in front of him, even if you don't feel it, be prepared and sound like you regret what's happened, but you are making plans without him. This will unnerve him, and should make him respect you more whatever the outcome of your marriage.

Secondly, and probably more likely, start preparing for life without him. Get your legal advice/citizens advice etc. Set yourslef mental pictures of where you want to be - arrange to see friends when he has the child or do up the house or whatever takes your mind off 'him'. Write your thoughts down so they are not such a jumble. Get councilling if you need it. Write to your fella with a list of what is and isn't acceptable (only you can decide on the practicalities that suit you _ actually find it easier to have H visit kids in my house, but know this wouldn't suit most - I just hate giving up my time with them and guess I am clinging on to the family thing...

Back to you. Book a holiday, get a job, start browsing dating sites (my counciller saays he wants me to go out on a date soon (ooh, back to me!), just for the fun of looking, getting the messages and just having a nice evening 0- I can see it all backfiring with them hating me though or being a weirdo but at least its another sotry other than 'why doesn't H love me?'...) In short, give yourself time to grieve, but realise in time he will be crying while you are much happier - who wants a marriage without sex? I'd far rather spend happier times with friends and have casual sex, whatever that is, than be with someone who didn't appreciate me.

See, I never thought I would feel like this, but time has helped me see the future a bit clearer. One of the things I really coundlt and still can't get my head around is having spent so long with someone, then not to have any contact with them, so we actually communicate as 'friends' now and plan things about the kids together - it hurts a bit, but I really enjoy seeing how it hurts him more...(plus I need the support tbh, but doesn't do any harm for him to suffer a bit in my presence...)

RE Divorce - up to you. I have now made the decision to separate properly for six months as I don't feel I can take the upset of dividing everything up right now, and guess somewhere I feel we might work it out? Sad cow I am!

Also, remember, what he is or isn't doing shouldn't be your concern - you are torturing yourself. In all likliehood it won't work with this woman as he will feel so guilty when it hits him - and it will - my H was all over the kids too cos he couldn't face me. Whether he does or doesn't want to come back to you really isn't the issue - what is the issue is how you look after yourself from now on, cos he clearly isn't going to.

BTW when you feel sad, don't think about the happy times - it's easy to go all rose -tinted glasses. Chances are he's been a real knob in the past, so feel grateful you get a break from that!

Best of luck. Over and Out.

Cheryllou · 10/02/2010 16:38

One more thing - there is lots of lovely times to be amid all of this upset. You will be okay. Life is sending you in a new direction that could be even more fulfilling than before. Be t hankful for the things you have got going for you and lose the baggage - if he thinks he will be happier without his family, let him go - most men who leave their families for a sexually-led encounter they mistakenly think of as a relationship live to regret it, but that's his loss. Keep your dignity - you will thankful you did in the end.

And if he does question you about why you hacked into his mail, just say you were looking for concrete evidence to use in a divorce case - this will put him in his place! and to be honest, I think most women would do the same to be honest, it's all part of the insane desire to gather facts, even though you know all you need to really. I did the same and don't regret it one bit - it's not like I've lied to my spouse, had an affair and left the kids is it????

Sorry, am ranting...

And sorry for all my typos and random thoughts, I am just jotting as i think and brain works quicker than fingers...

MaggieMuggins · 10/02/2010 19:26

Cheryllou, THANK YOU so much for these posts. I completely agree with your point about it being up to him to win me back (if he wants to) and, well, pretty much everything you've said really!!

I'm not in any hurry to rush him into a decision. Now that he has moved out I am finding that I am enjoying the space as well, and frankly seeing him looking so miserable when he came round to see DD gave me a slight touch of schadenfreude. Although on the whole I feel rather sorry for him - not in a 'oh dear I wish he was back here with me' way but rather in a 'gosh hasn't he got himself in a pickle' sort of way. I am doing FINE, he on the other hand looks like he's getting the reality check he needs.

But the fact is, if he doesn't want to be with me I still love him and don't want him to suffer unnecessarily. I do hope that in that eventuality we can (one day) manage a good friendship; it will be better for our daughter's sake apart from anything else. But the door is still open at the moment, and I am taking your advice and planning lots of nice things - although sex and other men are well off the radar at the moment!!

OP posts:
CarGirl · 10/02/2010 19:45

Why don't you get your h to agree to a week to have you dd whilst you go away on holiday with a friend. Get it put in his diary and stick to going away no matter what.

Then you just need to find someone else to go away with if you won't go away on your own.

MrsPeahen · 10/02/2010 19:46

So so sorry to hear you in pain. Read the thread because I was there once, and now am happy and loved and remarried. A hard lonely road between those two places though. Save your marriage if you can - and if you can't, know that there is still future happiness with your name on it, waiting for you. You truly will get through this. In the meantime, may I recommend a book which might help? It's by Thomas Moore, "Dark Night of the Soul." Sane and practical support for the worst times.
Sending you love and courage,
Mrs Peahen

Cheryllou · 10/02/2010 20:53

CarGirl, I like your idea, although I couldn't do that as I would worry about kids thinking I had left them too??? Also would spend the whole week moping I reckon. But we are all different no?

Maggie, I know exactly how you feel about loving your H - you can't just switch your feelings on and off like that. And I personally think the game playing leads to both of you getting more hurt - you rarely get the response you expect or plan. \but don't feel too sorry for him - he has been a wanker, not just a small one but a BIG one. Get a bit angry if you can - is healthier than feeling sad.

I am feeling a little low now - H just left having seen the kids and is all 'do you want to talk' 'are you okay' and it's hard not to read too much into that. I am going to stay focused though - I've decided on a separation for at least six months so I know if he ever does want to come back taht he REALLY wants it, and if he doesn't, well I'll be six months in to a separation so it won't such a huge step to divorce. It's shit all round really, but shit does happen right? It's how you deal with it that matters (dealing with shit...errrgh...)

I do worry you are expecting him to come back any second though - just make sure you aren't setting yourself up for more pain and anguish. He has already told you he wants to leave so you need to deal with that and not think it is just a 'phase' or that he will snap out of it. He may well have been unhappy for a long time, which certainly won't have been your fault - he just probably feels he needs to grow up and can't do so in the situation he is in. Rubbish for you, but there it is (speaking from my poiont of view) I can't recommend RElate highly enough for helping you through this.

My husband is just on the cusp of another change of mind, I can spot the signs, but I know it's not because he wants me desperately, it's because he feels guilty/misses kids/misses me etc and he thinks he can just pick me up again for another round of let's try and make it work. Not this time Mr - I've got a bit of living it up to do myself! see you in six months...

Fucking men, honestly, it makes me so angry, they think they can just put the family on hold for the life they think they are entitled to. If we all did that society would break down. I'm seriously considering an allgirl and child commune...

CarGirl · 10/02/2010 20:59

maybe a week is too long, seriously arrange to spend a weekend/couple of nights with a girlfriend or someone else who will enusure that you are too busy having a good time to mope. It will certainly send the message that you are moving on with your life and that being divorced and a weekend Dad is the reality of the future he has chosen.

Cheryllou · 11/02/2010 11:24

Freaky, found this in the Telegraph problem pages online...

Here's the end of the letter, followed by advice:
.... The sad thing is, I am broken-hearted. I feel I have lost a lovely man whom I truly loved ? and still do ? and I just want him back. Will this happen? Can I do something to make it happen? Marianna

Dear Marianna,

If you are being hysterical and difficult, who can blame you? The only thing is, if you want your husband back, it isn't working, is it? So I think it's time to try something different. You are in deep shock, by the sound of it, and he is certainly in cloud cuckoo land, so I feel you both need to face up to reality before this grim and familiar situation can change.

I can hear the longing and yearning in your voice. You want to turn the clock back and reclaim your former happiness, but I don't think this is likely to happen. The man you once loved so fondly is not at all the man you are describing and, unfortunately, you now have to deal with Awful Man, not Lovely Man. I'm sorry, Marianna, to upset you further, but he sounds dreadful. The midlife crisis behaviour is a well-trodden path ? girls, drinking, a new best mate, second adolescence, motorbikes, running away from home ? which might bring him back through the front door at some future point but is far more likely, I fear, to end in another relationship and a permanent parting of the ways.

This isn't what makes me fear for you as much as the switching off of love that comes with it. He is violent, you say. He is certainly cruel and unkind. It is possible to leave people with some vestige of self-respect but he doesn't seem to care about yours. Maybe he is behaving this way to make sure that you get the message: this rupture is final.

But you are refusing to get it, no matter what he throws at you, and I think it is time you got a grip and took a hard look at shaping your own future. It always feels better to be proactive rather than passive, and there is a lot that you could and should do here.

At the moment, he is calling all the shots and you are simply allowing yourself to be upset and showing it, which only aggravates him further. I perfectly understand how hurt and upset you are, but try this. Tell yourself that you are allowed to cry at certain times of the day, and never when he is there. That way, you will have a daily appointment with fear and misery but you will keep it in its place. The rest of the time, you are going to act as if you are coping without him and making a good life for yourself. Believe me, this is possible and it will make you feel better.

I am very concerned about your financial situation, and I strongly recommend that you face up to the realities of divorce and what your financial position would be. The Citizens Advice Bureau (www.citizensadvice.org.uk) is a good place to start. They publish advice guides on all aspects of divorce. Your town hall or library could tell you where the nearest one is, and at the library you can research some books on divorce, The Which Guide to Divorce, for example. There is nothing like having all the facts, however awful, to give you some control over the situation.

You say your husband stopped you contributing to your pension and made you retire early. The pension is often the most valuable family asset after the house and you should certainly get your share of his. Who owns the house, by the way? Is there still a mortgage on it? It is not enough for your husband to say that he'll pay a few household bills as though he were doing you a favour. The courts may take a different view. Please get professional legal advice.

This is about survival, Marianna, and self protection. The next thing I recommend you do is look for work, preferably paid, but if not, at least voluntary. It is time for you to make a life for yourself that doesn't depend on him. This will do wonders for your self-respect, and make you better able to deal with him. Knowing you are getting a grip on your own life will also make you less likely to become emotional in your dealings with him.

I would also like you to investigate the pleasures of being selfish. What have you always wanted to do but haven't because you are one half of a couple? Your time is your own now, and I strongly recommend you find another centre of social gravity that will make you new friends and spark your interest. When my marriage broke up, I joined a choir and it saved my life.

Other people do voluntary work, go walking, take degrees ? read next week's column to see the many ways in which older readers have forged new and happy lives for themselves after midlife crises like yours.

You have had a huge blow. You have staggered. You have felt devastated. Now it's time to take some control and surprise your husband by waking him up to his responsibilities. You can surprise him in other ways, too. If you are out when he calls or if he sees you looking pulled together and off for a fun evening somewhere ? anywhere ? with new friends, this might give him pause for thought.

If, despite taking control of your own life, the one thing at the top of your wish list is still for your husband to return, don't let this drag on. Set yourself a time limit or, I promise you, your life will drift by in unhappiness and muddle. Women can't stop men leaving them but they can set boundaries, get informed, get educated, retrain, find the right professional and personal help. Friends, by the way, are essential, but even the best friends will tire of seeing their friend make herself miserable by refusing to adjust to reality. Cool, calm and collected is the way in public. Fall apart in private if you must, but don't let him see it. And, this may surprise you, but some good times could lie ahead.

IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 13/02/2010 18:28

Hi Maggie - how have things been going since you last posted?

MaggieMuggins · 14/02/2010 20:50

Hi, thanks so much for keeping tabs! Have just been plodding along this week, really. Not much to report except that H tells me he's staying at a mate's next week and I have asked him to come round tomorrow night for a proper talk. It's like getting blood out of a stone, expect if I wasn't asking him to spell out the situation he would never tell me.

So, will prob be in a state by this time tomorrow night - suppose I will have to start a new thread as I expect this one is getting a bit hackneyed now!

OP posts:
IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 14/02/2010 23:32

Hope tomorrow's discussion goes well. You seem to be doing really well, all things considered!

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 16/02/2010 14:11

Hi Maggie - How are things this week? Thinking of you often.

MaggieMuggins · 16/02/2010 15:17

Well last night was horrible, very upsetting and we kept going round in circles, basically. He refuses to accept that because he's 'not in love with me any more' that there's any point in trying to sort things out. He asked me what I wanted him to do (as if, because I couldn't give him an answer that meant that there wasn't one!) Of course, my answer would be, do what I did - stop getting involved with someone else, commit to your marriage and see what happens.

He seems to think he can compartmentalise everything, putting me/DD in one box and the OW in another box. He doesn't acknowledge that his feelings for her and me are intertwined or that his falling 'out of love' with me may be linked to his becoming interested in her. Of course, it is possible that she was a catalyst and that he would never have left me until he had something else to go to - some people are like that, aren't they?

He keeps saying that he's not going to move in with her or do anything to progress that relationship until the end of the school year. But when I asked him he said she was still telling her daughter about them this week!!

He said he is staying with a friend as he doesn't want to make any quick decisions about moving anywhere (nice for the friend, plus means he can't have DD over for the night, plus I've got a house full of his stuff to deal with - cheers) and I really think he still doesn't really know what he's doing. Unless he is being particularly devious and just playing for time while the OW sorts things out at her end, finds a new job etc.

I'm completely torn between being completely outraged and incredulous and not wanting to accept his crap and just saying, OK move on.

Confused dot com!!

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