Yes it's another cliched 'he's having an affair' thread - HELP!!!

[MaggieMuggins]

So, after trawling MN relationship threads for the last hour I can see that everything I am about to say is so 'classic' it's untrue

DH and I have been together for 14 years, married for 4 and DD is 15 months. I became suspicious that he was having an affair before Xmas - we have had the 'I'm just not very happy at the moment' conversation - and after a bit of snooping and a few pennies dropping I confronted him last night and told him that I knew there was something going on with him and his teaching assistant. (An interesting take on the boss-secretary cliche, no?)

I also told him that part of the reason that I'd been able to work it out was because the year before we decided to have a baby one of my own work colleagues had told me that they had fallen for me, and I had an emotional affair with him. Nothing really happened, and I worked through it all alone (it was the year that DH was doing his teacher training and I was at a really low ebb, very flattered by the attention but ultimately it was never going to go anywhere).

Anyway, he admitted that they had grown close (says they haven't kissed, but 'sort of' told each other that they have feelings). He also admitted that he had met her on Saturday when he went out for the afternoon, but says that they just met up and wandered round the shops. I think I believe him.

Anyway, DH and I have had a crap sex life for years and never really dealt with it. We are like two best friends sharing the same house/parenting. I have tried so many times over the years to talk to him about it but he's just buried his head in the sand, told me he loves me, ignored the problem. I would desperately love for us to get that spark back, and I can't cope with the lack of physical affection for much longer.

He says he doesn't know what he wants - before Xmas he was convinced he wanted to leave, but now he's not sure. Doesn't know how he feels about this OW. I've told him that he MUST talk to a friend, that's the one thing he has agreed to do. I told him I want to go to counselling but he said he needs time to think first.

I feel completely bereft and terrified of losing him. I am also angry that he has done this to me when I need him so much right now (am at threat of redundnacy at work, just to add insult to injury) and I am feeling physically unattractive and knackered from working full time and dealing with motherhood and trying to get to the gym and trying to have a social life and trying to keep the house nice. When we had DD I thought I had everything I wanted. What a complacent fool I have been.

Keep strong, don't waver, he needs to sort this now or go.

Also wondering what his plan is for the weekend??

Stay strong. He will thank you in the end too.
When he does move out make sure he stays out for a while too - i think the mistake i made was to allow him to still be a part of our life. When in fact he wanted to come back more when he didnt know what was going on. whilst he could see what i was up to he could carry on the way he wanted but when he saw i was actually getting a life that didnt involve him he wanted to know more iyswim. Makes him sound controlling (which i think he was then).

But it was certainly empowering when i gained a bit of my own control.

Hard as it is - try and book something just for you at the weekend and start to think you will be ok without him.

You are doing really well

Am feeling anything but strong today. Feel like I was in control on Monday but he has thrown me completely up in the air again.

He is going to his mum's this weekend and then says he'll book into a local B&B so he can come and see DD - says he wants to see her every day but the more I think about it (and this feeling is stronger now I have read some of the comments posted here) I have to restrict his access to DD, and tell him when he can and can't come round

He hasn't said anything to the OW, as far as I know. I have NO WAY of knowing what he is telling her, what the situation is at work etc. He seems prepared to come to counselling but I don't think there's any point starting it until he has made a commitment to me by properly ending the affair.

Had a long conversation last night with a friend who is about 2 months in front of my situation (her H is now living with the OW) and there are so many similarities between what she went through and what I'm going through, what her H said/did and what mine is, that I just think that it's all a waste of time and I should just tell him to F off and get on with my life.

Maggie - you are strong though - have you got any legal advice so that you are at least armed with knowledge.

I think you are right to not allow daily contact - this is something if he does walk will not continue and really until he does make up his mind you need to protect her.

If you have to lie and say you have already sought legal advice and wish to put into place a reasonable access that will be easy to maintain. That may well give him the shock he needs.

I suspect he is still in 2 minds and so you need to make it as hard as possible for him to ease his way out of your life and into hers, iyswim. The only trouble there is he may well for now flee straight into ow arms for comfort.

You will feel stronger the more control you manage to keep for yourself.

If you are feeling up to it - get him to babysit for you and show him you will not be staying in and waiting for him - although this can of course backfire too.

The main thing is dont feel bad about anything you do - there really is no right or wrong way to do it.

We that have been through it can with the benifit of hindsight see what we would have done and that is why we urge you to do things - they are not rules as such.

Well I'm going out tonight, even though it's the last thing I want to do, frankly. I just want this to stop now, I am so angry with him and just want it all to go away.

the anger will help you - unfortunately the rollercoaser will continue for a while yet.
Be kind to yourself and good on you for going out - i went out once and just sat in a car park and cried for an hour and listened to radio 4. Do try and enjoy yourself - but dont worry if you dont.

Thinking about you

Sorry Maggie, but I've mainly been lurking on this thread for the last few days. I don't feel that I have much to add, as this is now getting out of my range of experience (which I think is good for you), except to support you and sympathise with what you are going through.

I agree that the anger will help you. You are right to be angry at his behaviour as it sounds like he is still trying to avoid making a committment one way or another. Honestly, how can he say he is prepared to go through with the counselling unless he has a clear idea that he wants to stay with you. He's taking the piss!

Going out sounds like a good idea. Another forum community that I am a member of calls this "Paltrowing": making a show of having a normal life and enjoying yourself even if inside that's not how you feel.

Time to have him either fish or cut bait, Maggie. What he's doing is not fair to you. I think the reality of the situation should be brought home to him in no uncertain terms. Please hold him to his word (or maybe he sees it as a threat?) to leave, and keep up the pressure regarding the OW, what he has told her, whether her H knows, what he has done about work, when he intends to make a move here -- you should be backing him into a corner and threatening phone calls to the OW's H and also to the school.

I recommend twice a week max for his access to DD -- one weekday evening and one weekend afternoon for example. This will settle your DD into a routine quickly and help her to experience a modicum of security through all the changes. It's not unreasonable on your part to offer two visits a week. You could start negotiations with just the weekend visit and toss him the weekday one if things get sticky. He needs to understand that having his cake (the OW) and eating it too (still getting the family life with DD as he pleases) is not going to be an option to him.

He seems to think he can have you all dangling around him, ad infinitum; there is very little regard for anyone else visible in his response to this crisis (let alone the behaviour that led to it). You can't expect him to suddenly change his spots here -- this man is going to need a boot to the rear end as an aid to his thinking process, methinks. You cannot count on him behaving with any decency or civility to you. Hard as it may seem, you must grasp the wheel here and force things along.

Haven't read all the posts, but Maggie, I HAVE been there and am slowly seeing a chink of light. What you're going through is horrendous, honestly, these men should be shot, or at least separated from their wallets...

My advice to you is that if you are still not sure whether or not he is having an affair, you have no hope of reconcilling as he will always have one foot out the door as you can't compete with the first flush of what he mistakenly thinks of as 'love'. I'm not saying he won't see the rror of his ways, but he has to get to that point on his own, and in the meantime you have to go through all the shit you are dealing with just so that you can be the one in control, and you will be in time.

I have been through a similar thing for the past YEAR and it has nearly killed me cos he came and went and came and went and now has left again saying he doesn't love me enough and wants to be with OW (who is a dog btw).

I have been through all the feelings you describe and more - why me? are the girls going to suffer? wh should they miss out on a normal family life? how am I going to cope financially? what will I do without him in my life? what did I do to make him turn to someone else?etcetc

However, I woke up this week without a knot in my stomach, feeling cheerful and most of all feeling I DON'T WANT HIM BACK!!! This is a massive acheivement for me me as I have been living in the past, all the wonderful things we did together and had to look forward to, without taking on board all the shitty things he has done in the present. He really isn't worht it. Now when i see him, we are friendl for the children but I can't wait for him to go and I can see a future for myself and the girls that very much has him in the background.

Here's how I have coped: I saw the doctor early on who prescribed anti-depressants for the anxiety which I can truly say saved my life.

I said yes to every social occassion i could, even though I didn't always feel like it, just so I wasn't mulling things over at home.

I had good friends come over. A lot. and i talked it all through over and over.

I got a lot of support from the church, but appreciate this isn't for everyone.

I signed up to Relate - again a lifesver. To add insult to injury, my husband has just signed up too, seeing someone else, which he should have done ages back to help him get his head straight and stop him mucking me about so much. will your husband go?

I have built up my work hours so I can claim Working Tax credit (hundreds of pounds a week...)

I have continued with the children's routine and have explained the situ to them as best I can - they now feel like my little team. i am booking lovely things for us to do without their dad so the experiences are mine not his...

I went and had a look on mysinglefriend.com - there are some scrummy singles looking to date when you are ready (I'm not yet but am looking forward to the adventure, if a little terrified)

I have agreed a compromise with husband about access - he comes once a week to bath and put them to bed, plus has them all day on a Sat or Sun, and usually has them one other night (at home) when I go out. This is all so I can have a life and not have to see him, but the girls get to see him. it makes me feel more in control and he hates it I can tell as life as a 'single' isn't all it's cracked up to be when your wife and kids are having a nice time in your old home!! Of course I hate handing the girls over to him, but am trying to adjust to having some free time to shop, see firneds, family or just repair the house.

He has agreed that he still has a responsibilty to me and to looking after the house, which takes a wieght off my mind.

I have stopped listening to his 'worries/doubts/unhappiness/plans' as it really isn't my business - it just upsets me. Sometimes these men enjoy the drama of it all so I'm letting it all fall into a hole in front of me.

My plans for the future include making a budget (theres a great planner on Martin Lewis website), agreeing a maintenace figure through mediation then pushing on with the divorce, getting my career/homelife balanced, getting a cat and getting a life!

Sorry, didn't mean to bang on about me, i just want you to see that gradually you will pick yourself up once all the uncertainty dies down. Remember you are in charge just as much as him, even though it doesn't feel like it right now. If he is still unsure you don't even know what direction to move in, so keep him out, limit his access to times that suit you, get some legal advice to empower yourself and get whatever help you can to get you through this terrible time. Make him see you don't NEED him, that he is priviledged you have given him so much of your time already and that if he chooses to leave it, it's his loss. It's a cliche but life goes on and there are lots of good times to be had among the rubbish ones.

If he does wnat to come back, don't do anything too soon. Make him aware of what you expect and make him work for it - I didn't cos I didn't want to ruffle his feathers but if he wants you that badly, he will do whatever it takes. It might take some time, but you will both be better people in the long run.

Right. Done. Good luck pet. Girl Power and all that...

As you can all see, I am smiling again. I am going to read and re-read all of your advice and lovely messages of support every time I feel down. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

mysinglefrind is very good - i know some people who meet and are very very happy - she went through the same crap and now has a lovely new man and i have to say i am a little bit of them sometimes.

cheryl, that is a really excellent, empathic post

Cheryllou, can I ask you something? When you say that your H came and went and messed you around for a year, what with hindsight would you have done differently?

See, I think my H is only really concerned about DD at the moment, and anything he is saying to me about wanting to sort things out is BS, he just doesn't want me to restrict his contact with her.

And if he really doesn't want me, or want to save our marriage, what is the point of putting myself through the mill and being the one trying to leave the door open for him, still saying that I want him and think we can get through this, etc? Or could he just snap out of this suddenly? It's like I don't know him at the moment and I am waiting for the switch in his head to flick and the light to come on behind his eyes. Could this (does this?) really happen??

Yes it does... in my case because I exposed the OW as a psycho liar and it then made him question a whole load of things she told him from then on (while I'd chucked him out) and lose trust in her. All I did was keep asking him why he was having an email dialogue with her still (because her husband suspected something was up and they were arguing, which was apparently giving their daughter psychological problems), and stood my ground - I said although I was prepared to give things another go - and it would be hard to live with what he'd done, let alone forgive him - my willingness to do that was diminishing with time. And after 2 weeks I told him that offer had now been withdrawn as he'd been 'sorting out what he thought about everyone and what had happened and why' for too long and had caused too much damage to all of us. So I kept my dignity, reminded him of the damage he was causing by prolonging making a decision, while she grew more desperate and demanding. (BTW I let him keep emailing her in the knowledge that she was so mad she'd say all sorts and put him right off)

He said after I announced I was checking out of the whole drama and just getting on with my life to give the kids stability he woke up the next day and knew what he had to do. And yes, he did believe he felt like he'd turned into another person during the affair - someone he didn't like being.

maggie, your comment about the switch flicking on really resonated with me, that's exactly how I felt. A year on, the switch never did flick, h only got worse, and I'm now in the middle of a battle with someone who acts like a total stranger and is still with OW.

I don't think there's much you can do to encourage the switch to flick tbh, just focus on yourself and moving forwards. If you prepare for him not being around, it will only be a bonus if he is (depending on how you look at it!) iyswim.

I'd really seek some advice and start to prepare financially. H took all financial documents from the house while I was out one day, make sure you have yours copied just in case things escalate (fortunately I already had - thanks to advice here on MN, he doesn't know that though!)

Maggie, the only difference between your H now and your H before you knew about the affair is that now you know he's not that into you, whereas before, you only lived in the torment of suspecting it.

Your H is trying to salvage what he can of normal life in all this too, and that's where his attempt to keep up his relationship with your DD comes in it's a relationship he's comfortable with after all, in familiar surroundings. She's not judging him or trying to pull him one way or the other like you or the OW. She's at an age when a LO adores her parents it's a perfect situation for your H. But where was DD on his radar when he was refusing to go to counselling with you before the affair? And I don't think I have to ask where she stood on his priority list while he was giving himself permission to dally and then become involved with the OW.

Gordon f*ing Bennett. So, I have managed to get my H to admit that he was stringing me along. He was about to leave for his mum's without so much as a word about our situation so I sat him down and told him what a mess he was making of things, and he finally admitted that he wanted to leave. He seems to think that he was protecting my feelings by all the u-turn crap he came out with, when obviously it has done the exact opposite.

I gave him Not Just Friends with all the pages marked in that made me go 'YES! That's what's happening!' and told him to go away and read them (it's the least he can do) and took the house keys off him and told him he can see DD twice next week. Then rang my MIL who confirmed that he was going there and was terribly sweet and said she had been meaning to ring me, said he won't listen to her but that she would try and find out what the hell he was thinking anyway. She seemed relieved that I wasn't closing the door on him completely and it was nice to speak to her and know that she still cares about me.

Phew! Am feeling a weeny bit better.

maggie - take care of yourself this weekend.
thinking of you.

In the words of Arnie -he will be back - will you still be waiting?

No demands - just facts now - good luck

Protecting your feelings, eh? More like avoiding the showdown he suspected he wouldn't win and avoiding coming clean with people he knew would disapprove and ask awkward questions he doesn't want to think about.

Look after yourself and get some good sleep. Don't worry about your DD even if this makes her upset -- you have done the absolute right thing with giving him 2 and no more visits a week. Hold him to this. xxxxx Well done

this is a very cowardly man

and also tremendously manipulative

maggie, it wasn't your feelings he was trying to "spare"

Maggie, take heart. This is just another page in the script, but the story is not over if you don't want it to be.

Thank goodness you stuck to your guns about him leaving yesterday, but you might want to review some of the things that last week were non-negotiable.

I suspect that he's still not really telling you the truth. That in reality, he is quite conflicted about his true feelings for you and whether he really wants to leave the marriage. However, you must bear in mind that just at the point when he is more resolute to save the marriage, he sees OW, who will be playing her own game. A lot of men in this situation are so confused and cowardly, that they are influenced by whoever they happen to be with at the time.

OW will be bringing her "mothering" experience to bear and will be reassuring him that his DD will be fine, she's just a baby etc. Infidels are incredibly selfish - look at how monstrously selfish it is to have an affair with a teacher at your daughter's school - there has been no thought for her own daughter's feelings and shame when this all comes out. He can't see this objectively yet, because he's in love with her - but I'll bet if you gave him this scenario about a friend of yours doing this to her daughter, pre-affair he would have been astoundingly judgemental about a woman who could do this.

It is important in your discussions with him to dissemble OW and sow seeds of doubt about her character and values - but this works more powerfully when they are not in contact, which isn't going to happen just yet.

Therefore, have a re-think about the action you can take. At the moment, they are still living in a bubble and haven't yet had to come clean with their employers/friends/family, just what they have been up to. I'm still suspicious about her H knowing the full facts, by the way.

You can, at any time you like, burst that bubble and beging to fight dirty. I honestly don't think until your H has to live with the full consequences of this, he will not wake up from this fantasy. You can inform the school. You can track down the H and discuss what you both know. You can expose any lies they've been telling to eachother (and there will be loads of those). At the moment, they are still in a bubble.

Lean on your MIL too, with any luck she will prove to be a good ally.

Do also try to work out what your bottom line is in all this. When will you throw in the towel? What are the benefits to ending the marriage for you? How might your life improve for not having him as a partner? If you can see a happy future without him, as well as with him, this can also give you enormous strength.

Keep being tough with him and do everything you can to burst their bubble and rain on their parade.

First, I want to send you my support and say that I am thinking of you. I told a couple of my friends about your situation and how I wish that I had had your strength when I was going through the same thing.

I agree that he is avoiding confronting what will be some very difficult situations as a result of his actions.

Maggie, maybe you should take some time now to take stock of your feelings. Think about what you want, especially in the light of what he has just revealed.

I reread your original post, where you said that you were terrified of losing him. From what you have posted since, I get the impression that you have faced this fear and possibly come through it.

You are still dealing with this from a strong position. Should he come to his senses, I am sure that this will only help any reconciliation. Do you still want him back if he changes his mind?

I also think he hasn't come clean to anyone, maybe not even his mother, and I would be keen to track down the OW's H and have a long chat together. And maybe take the computer to have the hard drive examined.

Wow whenwillI - I feel much better. I have been dwelling on thoughts I'd stuffed up a lot in managing the aftermath but I actually (with hindsight) followed the above advice from you perfectly (yes, I am a touch postnatal presently )Thanks!

I've been considering the 'fighting dirty' tactic and I am really uncomfortable with it. All of the advice I am being given is really helpful and I feel very strong and clear about where I am going and what I am doing now, but my gut instinct tells me that ringing the head and grassing him up would be a very bad move. It's not something I'm prepared to do. I think it would only turn my H against me and bring him and the OW closer together in an 'us against the world, oh we're so misunderstood' sort of way.

However, I do now feel like I can imagine a future without him, whereas a week ago I couldn't. It's not what I want, but I am mentally preparing myself for it to happen. Obviously the more that this situation carries on, the less I will want him back, and at some point I will know that we have reached the point of no return, but at the moment the door is still open and I'm not going to worry too much at this stage about when it will close.

I think there is a lot more yet to come in my sorry little saga.