Yes it's another cliched 'he's having an affair' thread - HELP!!!

[MaggieMuggins]

So, after trawling MN relationship threads for the last hour I can see that everything I am about to say is so 'classic' it's untrue

DH and I have been together for 14 years, married for 4 and DD is 15 months. I became suspicious that he was having an affair before Xmas - we have had the 'I'm just not very happy at the moment' conversation - and after a bit of snooping and a few pennies dropping I confronted him last night and told him that I knew there was something going on with him and his teaching assistant. (An interesting take on the boss-secretary cliche, no?)

I also told him that part of the reason that I'd been able to work it out was because the year before we decided to have a baby one of my own work colleagues had told me that they had fallen for me, and I had an emotional affair with him. Nothing really happened, and I worked through it all alone (it was the year that DH was doing his teacher training and I was at a really low ebb, very flattered by the attention but ultimately it was never going to go anywhere).

Anyway, he admitted that they had grown close (says they haven't kissed, but 'sort of' told each other that they have feelings). He also admitted that he had met her on Saturday when he went out for the afternoon, but says that they just met up and wandered round the shops. I think I believe him.

Anyway, DH and I have had a crap sex life for years and never really dealt with it. We are like two best friends sharing the same house/parenting. I have tried so many times over the years to talk to him about it but he's just buried his head in the sand, told me he loves me, ignored the problem. I would desperately love for us to get that spark back, and I can't cope with the lack of physical affection for much longer.

He says he doesn't know what he wants - before Xmas he was convinced he wanted to leave, but now he's not sure. Doesn't know how he feels about this OW. I've told him that he MUST talk to a friend, that's the one thing he has agreed to do. I told him I want to go to counselling but he said he needs time to think first.

I feel completely bereft and terrified of losing him. I am also angry that he has done this to me when I need him so much right now (am at threat of redundnacy at work, just to add insult to injury) and I am feeling physically unattractive and knackered from working full time and dealing with motherhood and trying to get to the gym and trying to have a social life and trying to keep the house nice. When we had DD I thought I had everything I wanted. What a complacent fool I have been.

Maggie, I think you're totally right not to grass him up. Whilst parts of doing that would no doubt feel so good (I keep getting the urge to write interesting comments on XH's facebook page like "do you all know that he &&^ for a year and lied through his teeth to me and the DCs?"), I think it would aggravate the situation and cause some additional tension between you that you just don't need right now. At the moment you have the moral highground and that's good. If he doesn't come clean soon and you find yourself getting entangled in his lies somehow (this started to happened to me as by not exposing what he was doing I reached the point where I was almost having to lie to the DCs which I wouldn't do) then you may need to very factually burst his bubble, but I don't think now is the time either

Maggie, have you actually thought to tell him that you are going to phone the Head - you don't have to go through with it but it will make them both panic. When I found out who OW was in my case, I told them that I was going to spill the beans to her manager because the affair was gross misconduct for her (between staff/client) - she was petrified about any one going into the branch (as she didn't know what I looked like). I didn't because she had two DC and was a single mum and I didn't feel it was right for her DC to be caught in the fallout (even though she had no thought for my DC).

Anyway she was dismissed anyway (because the manager found out through other sources) - so what goes around comes around IYSWIM.

If it helps to burst their bubble/fantasy (also threatening to tell her H). You don't have to follow it through but it will make them scared and hopefully bring it out into the open. Just a thought.

Worked in a school where the Dep Head was having an affair with the married head of girls' PE and her son was in the school. All the pupils knew and he had a mental breakdown. The rest of the staff saw them as entirely responsible but they were selfish enough to brazen it out.

Maggie, I understand your reluctance to call the head and I too can see that this might lead to a fortress mentality - and albeit briefly, it might bring them closer together. In your shoes, I would also have a mother's fear for that poor little girl - and her head teacher knowing her mother was messing around.

However, you don't have to do everything at once. You are being told that her H knows everything, aren't you? Therefore, you cannot be accused of "grassing" to him. Your motive in talking to him can be explained as wanting to share an experience with someone who is going through something identical - and ensuring that you are both being told the same story.

Even if you do none of these things, Counting is right - you can threaten them, can't you? Look at how terrified your H was when you queried whether the school would take action against them - this was a major wake-up call for him when he was too up his own arse to even consider the consequences.

Glad you're feeling better Abed - I think everything you did at the time - talking to the H and exposing OW as a fantasist - was a great way for you to take control when your H couldn't. However, it's easier, isn't it, when the contact has ceased with OW?

My H believed all sorts of nonsense from OW, that most people would see straight through and even laugh out loud about, the lies were so ridiculous. Other lies she told were even more extreme and even my H thought were highly implausible, especially when she contradicted herself. I know he felt really embarrassed at how stupid he'd been when I exposed how and why certain things were lies - and one of the things he had to confront was that he was a pretty poor judge of character.

The trouble with this is, lust and infatuation cause all of us to ignore red flags and nagging doubts, so I understand why it happens. We overlook things in people that, if they were just friends or acquaintances, we wouldn't. As I mentioned upthread, Maggie's H would probably have been scathing about some other woman doing this at a school, wouldn't he? Just as OW might have been scathing about a friend's husband having an affair when his wife has a young baby. They are both in denial about eachother's real character.

This is the biggest red flag ignored, in fact. Having an affair in the first place shows that both parties are capable of lying and deceiving, but the affair partners always suppress this truth, as long as the deception isn't directed at them.

Maggie's H is still in that haze I suspect, where OW can do no wrong, but if he's essentially a decent man, there will be a few seedlings of doubt there....

So all you can do Maggie is sprinkle water on those seeds, expressing doubts, verifying stories and facts, working quietly behind the scenes with dignity. I don't think talking to the H implies any loss of dignity.

I agree with holding off from telling the Head, in these situations the truth will out sooner than you think, no doubt it will have been picked up by the staff and the children will notice soon too, you just need to sit back and watch him crash and burn.

I agree, don't talk to the head

It will just inflame the situation massively and not be helpful to anybody, not even Maggie

I would, however, contact the OW's H

However, I sense some denial from you there Maggie...I think you may be frightned to contact him because it will expose the fact that he has probably told you a humungous lie there (that OW's H knows about the affair)

and that uncovering a lie so profound will mean something very huge in a "no-going-back" kind of way

I understand if that is the case, but really, it is just prolonging the inevitable if he has lied about that

Wise words from AF

Can't recommend contacting the H highly enough. Was very beneficial in my situation, I bet you'll be able to piece together all sorts of information. He will have been told a crock of shit too, don't forget..

I'm not against contacting him, it's something I would consider. I just don't know how to contact him!! The OW has a very common surname and I don't even know his first initial, or anything about him.

???

Is she on FB? Can you see her friends list, and if so is there someone who could be her H?

Can you speak to anyone at school who might know them, and ask about her H (or get someone else to..)?

Alternatively - and this is maybe getting a bit desperate - follow her home (or get someone else to) and see where she lives!!

Do you know any of your H's colleagues? They might be a source of information. Or try Friends Reunited? People often state the names of their spouses in their profile. If you know roughly where they live, they might be on the electoral roll, so 192.com might yield something. In a conversation with your H, you could return to the fact that her husband knows and say "Has her husband - sorry what's his name anyway? - asked her to leave too?"

BTW, your H might not be lying to you about this - it's just as likely I think that OW is lying to your H that her husband knows, as this puts the pressure on a bit. And dependent on her personality, she might be so much of a narcissist that she wants your H to make a demonstration of his love for her by leaving you, when in fact she's got no intention of leaving her H, and she'll pull out at the last minute. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if you phoned her H and it was the first he'd heard of it.

Either way, it rains on her parade considerably doesn't it? And if your H is lying to you, he'll now have an angry H in the mix. All of these things force reality to intrude. And meanwhile you can smile sweetly and say "but you told me he knew..."

genius, innit

I too suspect that Maggies H is also being lied to...

what a sorry mess

such a shame it is all of their own making...(H and OW, that is)

Maggie, it you don't want to contct her H, fair enough, but don't make excuses you don't know who he is. It is easy enough to find out....

terrible typing, sorry

if you don't want to contact her H

Despite her scary name, AF is very wise
I posted a while ago when I found out via a Facebook message from OW's jealous ExH that my DH was having an afair with her. My intial reaction was anger @ OW ExH for the shock I got, but quickly came to realise (and also with the very gentle and helpful support of MNetters)that he had done me a HUGE favour, as otherwise it would have carried on, I would have been miserable(our marriage was terrible anyway)and I wouldn't have had the chance to fight back. As it was, DH immediatley agreed to stop the affair, we talked honestly about what was wrong with our marriage and how we could each change our behaviour, we presented a united front, and although it is early days, our marriage is better than it ever has been and she is bewildered because occasionally when we see her (she is on the periphery of our social circle) we are very clearly together, and she looks like a frightened rabbit in the headlights - because she anticipates there might be a reaction from me at some point undetermined - the uncertainty is my own little way of retaliation, even tho I have no intention of ever confronting her.
I appreciate this is differnt to your situation, but I would agree that telling the OWH is the right thing to do, even tho he won't thank you for it immediately, because otherwise how can he fight back? If he already knows, then nothing is lost - if he doesn't HE can decide what he wants. At the very least, it wil pressurise the lovebirds and cause tension between them , whereas at the moment as has been said they are in a romantic bubble.
Just don't do it via FaceBook, but by phone or in person if you are able, or even get a friend to phone him.
Look on 192.com, most people are there, or get a friedn to ask around. I would willingly take on a task for a friend of mine if she were in your situation - even if did mean following the OW home!

thanks, woz

Also, just as an added thought, you may find if he does know, OW-Hb has contacted the school already/or doesn't want to on behalf of his dd...although these things have a way of leaking out. He might also have information that might shed light on your own situation with hb.

Or you may have decided on a course of action where it doesn't matter what comes to light...

Hi all. Well, I've found out the OWH's name and suppose I can track him down if I want to...but the question is, do I want to? Is there any point?

H and I talked for quite a while tonight and he basically said that he wasn't in love with me any more. The waters have been muddied by his getting involved with someone else, but the upshot seems to be that he wants out because he doesn't want to be with me. Try as I might to rationalise this, the bottom line is that he doesn't like me enough to stay and try and work things out. Is there any point clinging on to false hope and thinking that he will 'come to his senses' when in actual fact he is just trying to let me down gently? Or should I just be taking a deep breath, accept that it's over and move on?

Hmm. I strongly suspect that he is reframing the past here, to try and claim that this is little to do with his being involved with the OW. I'm not convinced that he would be making the same admission to you if she weren't on the scene.

He's not in love with you because those feelings are directed right now at the OW. I seriously doubt that that means he doesn't love you; it's just that he's in that heady phase with the OW and you can't possibly hope to compete with that.

As I said earlier, work out what YOU want now. If you still love him, then be strong and don't compromise, and tell yourself that the door is open should things change. I think that it's WAY to early to know how this will play out. It'll be hard, but you've done so well so far.

ok

so take him at his word

he leaves

you start divorce proceedings, sort out access to the kids

maggie...were you really happy with him before all this, bearing in mind your own indiscretions not too long ago ?

forget OW, think carefully about this

it may be the catalyst you need to both get out of an unhappy relationship

Yes, AF, I was happy with him. My indiscretions were completely unexpected and unprovoked. I called a halt to it before it got out of hand because I was committed to my marriage and, although I was flattered and liked the flirting, didn't think he was a patch on my H at the end of the day.

geekdad, that's the sort of false hope that I'm thinking I should stop hanging on to. Although he does still seem confused I just wonder whether his confusion is because he doesn't want to hurt me and DD but that's basically what he knows he must do because I am not the person he wants to be with.

ok, maggie

AF, I appreciate what you were saying, though. I think his affair may have been a catalyst for him getting out of an unhappy relationship, but I was fully committed. Hope you don't think I was being arsey

"Is there any point clinging on to false hope and thinking that he will 'come to his senses' when in actual fact he is just trying to let me down gently? Or should I just be taking a deep breath, accept that it's over and move on"

I think that would be best. Good luck x

And I'm with Geek Dad on this. I think your DH might be convincing himself that he cannot really love you, if he's having an affair. If he were in a more reliable state of mind, I'd say ask him when these feelings for you died away, but he's re-writing history at the moment to justify his position, so it could be a pointless conversation at the moment.

All you have is your memory Maggie - like I said a week ago. Trust it. Trust it much more than you trust what he is saying to you at the moment. Work out when you were last convinced that he loved you and when he was happy with you. Try to timeline events and this will give you some answers. Your DD is only 15 months old and you were together many years before she came along. What kept him with you all those years then? What made him want to try for a child if he had misgivings then?

I said on a thread the other day that women have traditionally fallen into the trap of thinking that they cannot love their Hs if they are having an affair, whereas men have often been much clearer-sighted about affairs not meaning anything at all in relation to the feelings they have for their wives. However, I am noticing now that younger men have become more female in their thinking and are more able to convince themselves that having feelings for someone else must mean their primary relationship is over.

If the truth is as I suspect, that your memory tells you that you had a good marriage before all this started with OW, it is utter madness on his behalf to want to destroy his marriage when he is in the first flush of an infatuation that quite often burns brightly then fades away.

The other issue that somewhat flies in the face of what he is saying is that he was still with you - and wasn't going anywhere - until he was caught having an affair.

If on the other hand, your gut is telling you that he hasn't been happy with you for a long time and that he might be one of those people who always needs a new relationship before he can leave an old one, then maybe he's just not worth fighting for and you can part and move on with your life.

As for speaking to the DH, I still think it would be worth doing Maggie. Something just isn't quite fitting about OW having told her H two weeks ago - I'm assuming your H has said that she is still in the family home with her H? I've got a funny feeling about this one and keep returning to the idea that she might have narcissistic tendencies and a need for people to make huge sacrifices, only to pull back at the last minute.

If nothing else, a chat with her H might help you make your mind up one way or the other. If you discover that she's telling her H the same story as your H is telling you, then I think this will give you some clarity that for the moment, there's no dissuading either of them and therefore you will have to withdraw. If you find out that her H doesn't know, you will know won't you, when you see your DH's face, whether he was lying to you, or whether he was being lied to by OW?

I've also got a gut feeling that your DH will one day wake up to a future without you and realise what he's lost - and regret ever making decisions of this magnitude when he was in the first flush of heady romance.

maggie, this is your thread...you can be as arsey as you like

< not that you were >

you gave a straight answer to a straight question, 'tis all