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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Yes it's another cliched 'he's having an affair' thread - HELP!!!

240 replies

MaggieMuggins · 26/01/2010 11:50

So, after trawling MN relationship threads for the last hour I can see that everything I am about to say is so 'classic' it's untrue

DH and I have been together for 14 years, married for 4 and DD is 15 months. I became suspicious that he was having an affair before Xmas - we have had the 'I'm just not very happy at the moment' conversation - and after a bit of snooping and a few pennies dropping I confronted him last night and told him that I knew there was something going on with him and his teaching assistant. (An interesting take on the boss-secretary cliche, no?)

I also told him that part of the reason that I'd been able to work it out was because the year before we decided to have a baby one of my own work colleagues had told me that they had fallen for me, and I had an emotional affair with him. Nothing really happened, and I worked through it all alone (it was the year that DH was doing his teacher training and I was at a really low ebb, very flattered by the attention but ultimately it was never going to go anywhere).

Anyway, he admitted that they had grown close (says they haven't kissed, but 'sort of' told each other that they have feelings). He also admitted that he had met her on Saturday when he went out for the afternoon, but says that they just met up and wandered round the shops. I think I believe him.

Anyway, DH and I have had a crap sex life for years and never really dealt with it. We are like two best friends sharing the same house/parenting. I have tried so many times over the years to talk to him about it but he's just buried his head in the sand, told me he loves me, ignored the problem. I would desperately love for us to get that spark back, and I can't cope with the lack of physical affection for much longer.

He says he doesn't know what he wants - before Xmas he was convinced he wanted to leave, but now he's not sure. Doesn't know how he feels about this OW. I've told him that he MUST talk to a friend, that's the one thing he has agreed to do. I told him I want to go to counselling but he said he needs time to think first.

I feel completely bereft and terrified of losing him. I am also angry that he has done this to me when I need him so much right now (am at threat of redundnacy at work, just to add insult to injury) and I am feeling physically unattractive and knackered from working full time and dealing with motherhood and trying to get to the gym and trying to have a social life and trying to keep the house nice. When we had DD I thought I had everything I wanted. What a complacent fool I have been.

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MaggieMuggins · 29/01/2010 10:28

Geekdad, something you have said there is puzzling me. You are urging me to take the advice of forcing him to make a choice, but you also said that because you allowed your wife time to think about things she felt that you weren't willing to fight for her. If I issue ultimatums then that isn't fighting for him, is it? I have made it clear to him that I want to go for counselling and think that we have a marriage worth saving. This only came out on Monday, I'm not really waiting around forever. I asked him last night did realise that when he gets back on Sunday we have to reach some sort of resolution and he said yes.

In response to the posts about telling RL people, I have spoken with two close friends (one of whom is mutual and I know will offer him support as well), as well as my dad. If I need to tell other people as and when then I will. I'm not going to consciously keep quiet or broadcast it, think I'll just play it by ear.

Larbrawoman, I think you have got me all wrong, to be honest! I am completely aware that the affair is a symptom, not a cause, of our long-term problems. The lack of sex in the relationship is all from his side, I have tried on many occasions in the past to talk to him about it, and made suggestions as to how we could try and improve things and he has side-stepped the issue. As for the 'lack of attention' well, when this all started I was struggling with going back to work full time, was also ill for several weeks, trying to cope with the change of lifestyle that motherhood brings, trying to lose weight/get into shape (so that he might want to have sex with me - HA!) etc etc. So, yes, he may have bumped down the queue a bit, but when I had my affair, the circumstances were that he had finished his teacher training and embarked on a massive 6-week bender before starting his new responsible job. The reason he didn't notice what I was up to was because he was out with him mates getting caned and not coming home for 2 or 3 days on the trot.

But I know that doesn't excuse what I did! It amounts to the same thing, and before he goes tonight I shall be making it clear to him that a) I have taken him for granted in the past b) but I am willing to fight for the relationship and c) that if he is prepared to fight for it too then there will need to be some conditions (i.e. have the OW moved out of his classroom and go for counselling). If he's not prepared to do that then maybe the relationship wasn't worth saving in the first place!

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WhenwillIfeelnormal · 29/01/2010 12:18

Maggie - I get where you're coming from exactly. I understand what Labrawoman is saying, but I think you made it very clear in your early posts that you saw this as a symptom, not the root cause of your marriage difficulties.

You're also in a good position to understand how situations like this happen, given your own EA. The problem as I see it is that you are perhaps more self-aware and emotionally intuitive than your H and were therefore able to work through one aspect of your EA (a pretty important one at that) which was that OM was not going to be an alternative and he wasn't worth wrecking your marriage for. You perhaps didn't work through some of the other aspects though - I'll come to those later.

The dissonance in this situation however is that your H, not being as emotionally intuitive (suspect Aussieng is spot on, as usual) might have got himself into a "true love" fantasy. As you say, if he had tumbled you in the early days of your EA, maybe that's where you'd have been too. It depends to an extent on your H's personality, how long this has been going on for and what has really happened between them. I'm a bit sceptical that he wanted to leave before Christmas, when allegedly nothing physical had happened between them - and according to him, still hasn't.

Geekdad is spot on therefore when he says that the presence of the OW, although a symptom, is a major obstacle to you moving on and discussing what are the real issues in the marriage. That situation has got to be resolved properly before you can even begin to do that. We might all be able to see that the OW is an irrelevance almost, but to your DH, she isn't at all. At the moment, he's still idealising her. He can only start being truly objective about your marriage and its future once the bubble of OW is burst. As you know yourself, people in the grip of affairs go through a temporary form of insanity. This leads to them behaving in all sorts of uncharacteristic ways and their decisions and grip on reality are astoundingly poor.

Your H is still in that "insane" stage, which is what I meant in an earlier post about him being in a dangerous place.

Talking to others who are not in the grip of that insanity will help, especially if those individuals are emotionally intelligent themselves. It worries me a bit that the friend he has chosen to speak to does not know you very well - that seems a gap in itself, that a close friend of his, does not have a relationship with you. You on the other hand, have spoken to someone who could be a friend to you both - I think that's a wise (and caring) move of yours.

Although you can see how and why these extra-marital connections occur, I sense your frustration that for years, it was you bringing your grievances into the open and your H who wanted them closed down and concluded. I have a sense that in your mind, he never once raised with you that he had issues - he never told you how he was feeling. He has chosen to express his dissatisfaction by having an affair, which feels unfair to you. Perhaps when you had your EA, one of your justifications was that you had been open about your dissatisfaction, your H had therefore had the chance to rectify matters, had chosen not to (yet again) and therefore to some extent, he had only himself to blame for you seeking affection from elsewhere?

You perhaps feel that because you "dealt" with your EA, recognised it for what it was and "came to your senses", that chapter is now closed. However, the problem with this is that having that sort of secret alter's one's view of your partner. You (perhaps subconsciously) start to see him as a victim - and also perhaps begin a very subtle process of letting him off the hook for behaviours that you previously might have challenged, but now feel too guilty to pull him up about. The dynamic of your relationship changed in some way, because of what you'd done and this secret. Worth thinking about?

You then immediately "atoned" by embracing motherhood - and with all the emotional labour involved in this, there was no time to notice the changed dynamic, perhaps?

One of the things you might also like to think about is that with-holding grievances, refusing to engage in "relationship" conversations and with-holding sex (all things your H seems to have done over the years) are subtle methods of control. You might never have viewed him as particularly controlling, but those behaviours are indeed controlling.

I think what you intend to say to him is right - that you will fight for your marriage, but that there will be certain conditions. You might perhaps also like to think about the viability of them still being in contact at all - I honestly don't think it works, Maggie, especially at this stage of their affair. It's a bit like an addiction to him at the moment and the only really effective solution is cold turkey. Many women have reported on here that the true rebuilding only started when there was no contact whatsoever with the affair partner.

geekdad · 29/01/2010 13:14

Maggie, I think that issuing ultimatums (ultimata?) is indeed fighting for him, in the context of what you have said.

I bascially transferred the decision of whether we stayed together onto my DW. That was a very passive response to the crisis. Wherehas if I had said that I wanted her to stop seeing the OM and that was a condition on us working things out, that is a much more proactive step. It could be viewed as me valuing my relationship much more. Does that make sense?

labrawoman · 29/01/2010 15:28

Hi Maggie, now I know more and how you have been trying to make the relationship closer but have been pushed back I appreciate better how tough this is for you. You're getting some amazing thoughts here and it is great you have a plan. I wish you all the best with it.

MaggieMuggins · 29/01/2010 15:54

Wow, thanks everyone. I am feeling a bit overwhelmed by things right now and am so touched that people I don't know are investing so much time and thought into my problems.

I have drafted an email to send to him while he is away and has had a chance to spill his guts. I have used the phrase "sever contact" with OW, as I think you are right WWIFN and geekdad - we have to build up that trust again and we can't possibly do that with her in the frame.

The problem is I think he might be in the true love/insane place!! What can I say to make him realise that she's just a 'blip'?!

I find the stuff about seeing him as a victim and his possibly being controlling very interesting, but it's probably something I need to reflect on more after this weekend is out of the way...

OP posts:
HappyWoman · 29/01/2010 16:22

I too think you need to make sure the ow is totally off the scene.

My h (and his work) tried to make it work with them still working together - it is not possible.
Everything has to in the open for it even begin to work and unless you are able to supervise them at work you will always be left wondering - and she will know that and play on it even if nothing is going on.

Eventually my h saw clearly that whatever ow had said about being able to work with him again it was not true - she (understandably wanted to stab him in the back). It took him a while but when he saw it he knew he had to get out.

We look back on that time and shudder to think that anyone really thought it could ever work - i do blame his work too as surely they should have been able to see what was going to happen.

Anyway do not feel bad that you have boundaries and conditions on what you want from you marriage - you sound very strong indeed.

geekdad · 29/01/2010 17:20

I don't think that you can do anything to make him realise that (she's a blip). Give him "Not Just Friends" to read, maybe. He's just going to have to think things through and weigh up his options.

One thing to be aware of: if he does end things with the OW he'll probably go into some pretty severe mourning for the loss of the relationship. You can cross that bridge if and when you need to, though.

And well done for being strong in how you have handled this.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 29/01/2010 18:10

Maggie - I'd think twice about sending him an E mail, although I suspect it will help you to write it. It is a particularly bad form of communication at a time when good communication is essential. And over the weekend, do buy "Not Just Friends". Honestly, it's a "must read" for anyone in your situation. Do come back on here once you've had a chance to reflect, or if you need any more help. Is anyone available in your life at the moment who can take care of you a bit? You've had the most awful shock in the past week and someone needs to nurture you.

MaggieMuggins · 29/01/2010 20:50

I ordered Not Just Friends the other day! Got an email earlier saying it was in the post so fingers crossed it will arrive in the morning.

I think even if he does want to work things out with me that he is going to severely baulk at the idea of rocking the boat at work. A big if, mind.

Tonight I have a bottle of wine taking care of me .

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chandellina · 29/01/2010 21:50

i've just read the thread and 100% agree with labrawoman. I wouldn't take it sitting down and wouldn't want others to be the key people in the decision making process.
That sort of confidance is important too but (IMO) you and he need to have a major lockdown talk about the marriage.
Otherwise it seems like you are leaving him the option to figure out if he wants to pursue the affair and ditch the marriage without even fighting for your own corner (and the growing old as a family that you long for).

MaggieMuggins · 30/01/2010 21:25

Just a quick update to those of you who have been kind enough to follow my tale of woe:

I sent the email to him, telling him I love him and hope he can see a way through this together - it was actually a very long and carefully written letter, which I have spent nearly 48 hours writing, editing and re-writing - and pointing out that it is something for him to sleep on and digest before his return tomorrow, and as a starting-off point for the proper conversation we need to have.

42 minutes later I received a short reply - no more than 15 sentences in all saying, in a nutshell:

That he has been happy for a long time and thinks I haven't either. It's pointless to question whether this unhappiness is the motivation for his r/ship with OW, as we will never know, it could have happened anyway. He doesn't think counselling will achieve anything - I would never forget this and he would always be wondering 'what if', and that there are things wrong with our r/ship which can't be fixed. Never wanted to hurt you, etc.

So, there we have it. I have been mentally preparing myself for this all week; he has been so emotionally detached I knew this was what he was going to say. I just can't quite believe it. Think I am in shock.

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IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 30/01/2010 21:34

How horrible. It's sad to read that. I'm not surprised you are in total shock.

His head is not in a place where he can see the positives of your relationship. Given how he's feeling, I definitely think you need some time apart, awful though it sounds. I know it's not easy but you will feel better apart from him while he is being like this. And time apart will give you both time to think.

Do you have some RL support this evening?

chippychippybangbang · 30/01/2010 21:51

Oh Maggie, how horrible. I felt absolutely sick for you just reading that. I heard very similar from my H last year so I know how it feels.

You'll be in shock for the moment, but make sure you have lots of people around you - they will be falling over themselves to help, I promise you that.

How cowardly of him not to have told you that in person. I think in time you'll realise that though this is gut wrenching at the moment, it may lead you to much better in life.

Now for some practicalities (this week anyway, not right now) - find all your financial documents and get them copied, and start to ask about solicitors too. I know it sounds premature but it helped me feel I had some control. Also, get to a counsellor on your own, it might really help you come to terms with this. I'm so so sorry that you're going through this.

mathanxiety · 30/01/2010 21:54

Horrible. But this is not basically a very happy relationship, and never really has been? What have you honestly got out of this except the feeling you've been banging your head against a wall with him refusing to engage in relationship talks, guilt, exhaustion, the fear you're not attractive enough to your own husband?

MaggieMuggins · 30/01/2010 22:41

Isn't hindsight a strange thing, mathanxiety? I thought we were happy, that we got on well, were supportive and loving. Turns out that was all just in my head...excet that I don't think it was, I genuinely think, after listening to all of the posters on this thread, that he has taken leave of his sanity. He is using this as an excuse - he is rewriting history so that he doesn't have to face up to the reality of what he is doing.

The main thing I keep going back to is the post that WWIFN made about control in the relationship. I have been pondering this since yesterday and think that this is so true. He has always had the upper hand - I always supported him and his needs but now it is coming to a time when I need him and his support he is claiming that it's all irreparable and pointless. It's just a fucking excuse.

I am feeling strangely calm about all this - I'm sure it is going to come crashing down around my ears soon but at the moment I can't take it seriously.

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IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 30/01/2010 22:47

You probably feel calmer because the line he is taking makes it easier for you to know what to do.

It pushes you out of limbo IYSWIM. And that's good because it's limbo that does your head in.

AnyFucker · 30/01/2010 22:48

so sorry maggie x

that is horrible, but not unexpected as you said yourself

he is justifying his bad behaviour, yes, but you don't have to let him retain control

you are in the driving seat now

he has stated his case...you state yours

you separate and start legal proceedings

nipscouldcutglass · 30/01/2010 22:53

oh maggie how cowardly of him to email that response. I agree with AF - you would be best to go to see a solicitor.

AnyFucker · 30/01/2010 23:00

yes, I agree 'tis cowardly

'tis a way to negate any adult conversation you could have had about the way forward

he is too shit-scared to face you as a grown-up

bastard

MaggieMuggins · 30/01/2010 23:12

It's funny, although he is the one who has made the decision, I do feel liberated. Maybe that's easy to say now, after several glasses of wine and with a considerable physical distance between us...

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kittya · 30/01/2010 23:16

Agree with all of the above. You have to see someone about where you stand financially. What a prat and such a coward.

AnyFucker · 30/01/2010 23:17

maggie, that is fine too

the pressure is off

now you decide what to do next

MaggieMuggins · 30/01/2010 23:24

Thank you all - esp. AF for the 'bastard'

Will think about financial things ASAP - I am a very practical person so some things have already occurred to me - e.g. I earn more than him at the moment - should I be concerned about anything in particular?

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AnyFucker · 30/01/2010 23:30

maggie...there are very knowledgeable women re. finacial stuf on other threads

search for "divorce" or "glam and fab" etc

or start a new thread with specifics in the title

I can't help you there, I am afraid, but there will be many who can

Heated · 30/01/2010 23:50

Sometimes that's the shock, that the person you thought you knew, behaves so badly and their integrity you believed was there goes AWOL. You wonder how you didn't realise that was what they were like, or how they came to be so weak and stupid.

Having been thoughtful, generous and considerate of his needs and feelings you now need to do the same to yours. No longer expend energy thinking for the two of you, but think about yourself.

My mother bagged up my father's belongings, talked to family and friends, got some legal advice through the CAB and after three or four weeks of not doing very much she put legal proceedings in place. Although painful to put an end to the marriage, the decision to take decisive action was also a relief as it put an end to the feeling of being in limbo.

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