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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Going round in circles - how do I move this on before I lose my mind???

207 replies

NotSureHowMuchMoreICanTake · 11/01/2010 11:41

I've posted before as "regulary overwhelmed" and "evenboringmyselfnow". I keep thinking I am getting somewhere but then get stuck. Hoping I can get some support on here to help me make sense of it all and get the strength to do what i need to do.

Me and H have been together 16 years, have two DDs 7 and 4. There have been ups and downs over the years. He never wanted kids/marriage I did. We discussed a lot. I said I was going to have kids with or without him and did he want to hang around - he did. We had them. Things have been very up and down since. He is a big drinker (think c 100 units a week on a bad week, maybe 70-80 on a good, trying not to drink now for Jan and miserable as can be). I used to be but aren't now, apart from erratically and I don't much like getting drunk anymore - it makes me depressed and disappointed in myself.

We went for one round of counselling about 18 months ago. I've suffered really bad depression last 3 or so years and GP referred us for counselling in the hope it might help us address some issues I thought might be contributing to the depression. It wasn't a great success. He is very intellectual and a great talker and I think bamboozled poor counseller. He would just talk and talk and talk in our sessions abd they were very non-directed. Outside the sessions he wouldn't engage at all except one evening when he got very drnk and told me about minor fling he had had (the words "meteorological accident" might ring bells for anyone who read my previous threads) and about feeling he wanted to have sex with other people. I've never quite gotten to the bottom of wnether he really does, or whether that's just a fantasy but it was pretty hirtful at the time. Especially as he's been pretty off sex with me for ages and despite all the efforts I've made (date nights, sexy lingerie, you name it) that hasn't much changed.

Anyway...to the present...since September last we have been SUSR (Separated Under Same Roof). I've been doing my thing - he's been doing his. It's been ok. He seems happy enough with arrangement, head still firmly in sand about future, doesn't want to talk about it, doesn't seem to want to think about it. Meanwhile I am in psychotherapy trying to figure myself out. Spoke to GP last week and she said she would be happy to try to support him with teh alcohol issues. I told him this and I could have sworn he said he'd go and see her but then yesterday he told me that was just my advice and he might not. We also agreed (I thought) last week that he would go and stay with some frineds from end of this month so that he would be forced to take his head out of the sand but again now he tells me that was my idea and he might not.

I don't know whether am coming or going. I don't know whether I want us to try to work on it more or whether it's just futile. The sensible part of me says its futi;e, if he hasn't faced up to it after 5 months separated he is not going to. His levels of disengagement are exstraordinary. But I feel the weight of all teh decision making is on me, and I resent that very much. I get angry with him about it and then just passive. Over xmas there was a real danger if he had shown willing that I would have fallen into bed with him and been back to square 1. He didn't show willing. I still like him a lot but am not sure I respect him anymore. I need some affection, physical and otherwise and oscillate between feeling really strong and sure I can move on and into better position to facilitate that, and feeling total despair and worrry about thefuture and whether am making right decisions.

Meanwhile colleague at work fancies me and is very affectuonate etc but is married. I love the affection from him but don't want to go down that route.

Oh can soemone talk sense into me and help me work out a plan.

Sorry about length and typos - rushing out to collect a child. Back soon

OP posts:
MakeYerOwnDamnDinner · 20/01/2010 12:00

Really sorry for hijack OP - I'm not trying to trivialise your situation.

But I just wanted to say WHOA everyone. If men want to post on here, that's totally fine with me. I wasn't trying to suggest they shouldn't be. MIFLAW, I've found your posts to be really supportive and informative.

I was just surprised that's all. I'm quite new, and assumed it was just mums.

I appreciate the advice though Anyfucker - cheers.

AnyFucker · 20/01/2010 12:13

no worries, MakeYer

you might also find there are some ladies on here who are not mums too

autumnlight · 20/01/2010 12:33

NSHMMICT - I have felt the 'back to square one' scenario re. sex with my H. It has given him the green light that really I am okay with things. However, I have taken exception now to having someone 'drunk' try it on with me now. It now just feels insulting and typical of him that that is the only effort he can make. I realised that I was just an available ......... to him, and anyway, it is rubbish having sex with an alcoholic anyway.

Snorbs · 20/01/2010 13:16

autumnlight, I was with my ex for nine years. In all that time there was only one occasion when we had sex while she was stone-cold sober. That's more than a bit sad, isn't it?

MakeYerOwnDamnDinner · 20/01/2010 13:34

That is really sad AL and SNORBS.

You have both been severely short changed.

True intimacy just isn't possible when one or both partners is drunk. And while sex does not have to always be about that sort of connection - to never have it with your partner must feel miserable.

NotSureHowMuchMoreICanTake · 20/01/2010 16:58

autumnlight - I am so sorry to hear you are in similar bind. Do you think you'll manage to get out anytime soon?

snorbs - thanks for sharing your history - you sound in a much better place now, thankfully.

my man doesn't much fancy sex when drunk (part of our ongoing libido unmatching problems over a long long time) and to give him his due he knew I'd have let him back in the bedroom over xmas (feeling all sentimental, enjoying feeling "part of the family" again with him as we did a few thinsg together with the kids over the hols etc etc) but he decided it wouldn't have been fair. You know I know a lot of you feel you must lambast him but deep down he really is a decent guy. I'd not have stuck with him 16 years otherwise. He is just very VERy messed up, highly alcohol dependent and useless as engaging on an emotional level. And that's enough for me to get him to leave now.

Had a very useful session with psychotherapist today. He got me to think hard about what I am afraid of with the "precipice" and we established it is lack of clarity of the future. Lack of control. Am working hard on my understanding that no matter what you never have clarity of the future and can never actually have total control. But the things that are under your control need to be taken responsibility for. I went on a lot about H never taking responsibility and therapist pointed out that while I've done lots of analysis of the situation, tried to do lots of problem solving, gotten irritated, been engaged, experienced resentment growing and growing etc I have never really made a hard decision either. Fair point. Now is the time.

I described H's alcohol dependency to him (therapist) the way he drinks to dull the pain of his imperfect world (he has never lived up to his early potential careerwise, he never foresaw himself as a responsible parent rather as a sort of arty bohemian etc etc) and that he drinks to stimulate his creative juices (he is a writer). We agreed that it was most iunlikely he is going to find it easy to come off and that I would just be fooling myself to think that without absolute conviction and "doing it for himself rather than me" ness he won't manage it

sad. sad. sad.

again I have to thank all on this thread for helping me find this level (low and shaky though it might still be) of clarity about it all.

oh and MIFLAW, thanks for explaining your name, I had been wondering

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 20/01/2010 17:23

I thought "MIFLAW" was "my flaw" as in having a problem with alcohol

as in personality flaw or whatever

I feel a bit silly now

Anniegetyourgun · 20/01/2010 17:28

Ignorance is not stupidity. If it was obvious, he wouldn't have had to explain it. Anyway I didn't know what it meant and I ain't stupid. (Except sometimes.)

dittany · 20/01/2010 18:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

blinks · 20/01/2010 21:12

the best thing you can do at this point is stop the relationship side of things and focus on how you can best arrange things between you so that the children are prioritised.

he can't be drinking around the children.

i understand how soul destroying the whole business is- my husband was a problem drinker and i left him. he then decided to stop drinking and we got married and went on to have 2 children. he wasn't a daily, wake up in the morning and reach for the bottle, type of alcoholic either. he never hid his drinking or stashed it around the house.... when he drank though, he couldn't control it and behaved badly. he could even go for a longish period of time without drinking if he wasn't being sociable but the mearest whiff of booze and that was that. my father was an alcoholic so i started recognising that drink was an issue. i didn't want to replicate the nightmare relationship that my parents had so was very definate about how unacceptable this behaviour was. i knew that the longer i hung around, the more the goal posts would start moving and the more likely it would be that i would assume a co-dependent role. words are cheap in this type of situation- you need to take action.

you're ironically both in a similar situation except that he's your booze- you need to make a change FOR YOU. stop playing the part of his mother/saviour/analyst.

you're his wife and you deserve a proper husband. until he reaches a point where he admits his problem and seeks help- you don't have anything to hang your coat on.

MIFLAW · 21/01/2010 11:35

Dear Fucker

Don't feel silly - it may be wrong but it's certainly appropriate!

MIFLAW · 21/01/2010 11:38

It was actually other posters that gave me the name - I would type it in full and they would abbreviate it! So I decided to join them ...

serajen · 21/01/2010 12:05

I've been trying to work out your name too, MIFLAW, thought it was something to do with an AA saying

2010aQuintessentialOdyssey · 21/01/2010 12:40

notsure, my sympathies to you for the situation you are in.

My MIL lived with an alcoholic husband for 30 years. He died from a knackered liver aged 50, 50 years ago.

He was the kind of alcoholic that did not appear drunk, and he did not smell either. Mil thought he did not drink in the day time, until after his death, and she found secret stash all over the house. His friends and neighbours would then tell her about keeping his bottles for him, so that he could have a drink on the way to the shop, to pick up the post, etc. She also found that he had taken out loans to fund his alcohol habit, and she is struggling to repay them. He also funded the alcohol habits of his mates, on borrowed money. (we send MIL a few hundred pounds per month, so she can pay off these loans)
He lost his job because after several warnings from his bosses, he still drank.
But, he was a nice man! Mil is very bitter. Imagine, 30 years and not realizing just how bad his dependency was.

Op, I think you are right to make a clean break and plan a future without your husband.

NotSureHowMuchMoreICanTake · 21/01/2010 15:00

am hanging in here

going to a meditation class tonight which will help me stay focussed

off to a day long retreat on Sunday titled (appropriately) "letting go"

am going to get through this...

sitting watching a film with D at home last night, sharing an alcohol free beer and a thai curry, couldn't hep reflect on just how much I do like him

this is such a shame but the apathy and disengagement caused by booze I just can't be doing with anymore

hey, maybe he will pull himself up and we'll get another chance sometime

he isn't a sexist entitle-ist in my view - he is a nice man for whom things haven't quite worked out and who never intended to hurt anyone

it's up to me what I do with that and I've decided I can't take the (booze induced no doubt) apathy and now resentment (at me forcing the issue) anymore

doesn't mean I am not sad about it though

OP posts:
blinks · 21/01/2010 16:39

it is sad.

it's a slippery slope though.

you CAN still support him with recovery but not be a couple though... when my dad was in rehab i took part in al-anon meeting there and many of the other people were exes who wanted to lend their support. you can't turn your feelings off but you have to learn that while he's drinking, you, your relationship and unfortunately your children will never be his ultimate priority.

it's called surrendering and is part of the 12 step recovery programme. it's as important for partners/family members to understand surrendering as it is the alcoholic.

this link has some good stuff about enabling, if you haven't already red about it-

NotSureHowMuchMoreICanTake · 21/01/2010 17:19

thanks for that link blinks - I did the quiz and came out at 42% enabling

do you know what i am looking forward to the most? Not thinking about his f*ing drinking and whether or not it is the cause of our problems 24/7! It has become so tedious, so boring, I feel like a broken record. Am sure my friends have had it up to here (gestures to point a good twelve inches above top of head) with me. Am lucky I have such lovely loyal friends who put up with listening to me (not that I blather on to all and sundry but I do have a few I've shared this with and they have to a person been amazingly patient and willing to listen to my endless bleating - i count my blessings on that score - and my wonderful sister - god love her!)

hope I can think of something to talk about once I've moved on from this...

OP posts:
blinks · 21/01/2010 17:57

it's good you've got support.

you're right- it's fucking boring... the same old shit and most drinkers, even if they have different drinking patterns, come out with the same stuff.

'detachment with love' is something advocated by alot of people... it's the best way to go in my opinion. don't get drawn in the the 'is he isn't he' nonsense. most drinkers take advantage of any morsel of doubt that you might have about his alcoholism. they know that you are daunted by taking decisive action and latch onto that and exploit it... they don't think in the long term the way non-alcoholics do- their priority is to be left to continue behaving the same way. they become very sophisticated manipulators.

don't engage or get drawn in. detach with love and let your feet do the talking. and don't let his problems become more of a priority that your children's emotional needs- that's a VERY common mistake that partners of alcoholics make.

ItsGraceAgain · 22/01/2010 13:49

Good luck, notsure

NotSureHowMuchMoreICanTake · 22/01/2010 14:55

thanks ...just had lovely massage and off to collect kids from school now. Suppose we'll have "the chat" once they've gone to bed tonight...still feeling strong. Meditation last night helped keep the resolve firm

XXX

OP posts:
blinks · 22/01/2010 15:23

good-o

PinkFluffyslippers · 22/01/2010 16:47

Positive vibes are winging their way to you.
XXX PFS XX

NotSureHowMuchMoreICanTake · 22/01/2010 22:22

so, we've had "the chat" and he is moving out next weekend...need to figure out how/what/when to tell the kids next

all went fine - he didn't have any plan to suggest so I said that wasn't good enough and he had to go. He knew it was coming. Afterwards he said that he was planning to make a vow to himself only to drink 30 units a week, EXCEPT in holidays and when he isn't working (he is an academic so not working c. 4 months over summer and other breaks throughtout year). Not sure whether he was half expecting me to jump on this as positive attitude enough to make me say "please, please STAY..." but I didn't , wasn't even tempted to in any way. I just told him that he was exhibiting the textbook signs of someone with severe and denied alcohol dependency issues. He took umbrage and got animated for first time all evening. I shrugged it off and let it go. Excpe t to point out to him that another of the textbook signs of such condition is that relationships break down etc etc etc. Again he got riled a bit by this, but not too much. He says he is depressed etc but yet when I point out th ewell known fact about alcohol being a depressant claims not at the levels he drinks at . and he has been off it for three whole weeks now anyway...

YAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.

So, onwards and up. Any tips on how/what/when to tell kids MUCH appreciated.

And thanks again all of you. I felt so much stronger and resourceful as a result of the handholding (and bollicking!) I've received all week.

OP posts:
ItsGraceAgain · 22/01/2010 23:41

Oh, how sad notsure. Admittedly, unsurprising but still very sad. He has effectively chosen his drinks over you, and that must piss you off no end! Congratulations on what must have taken quite a bit of self-control.

You have finally broken out of your "circle". For one thing you'll probably notice very little difference ... more importantly, this liberates you from your incessant angst over him, his drinking, your marital twilight zone - and, I'll bet, a certain amount of looking tension around the house.

Kids usually do notice this stuff and have probably discussed with their pals (sorry, have forgotten their ages). I'll leave tips & hints on telling them to those with direct experience - I imagine, though, it won't be too difficult as their Dad will still be available (well, as available as he can manage).

Well done. Sleep tight

ItsGraceAgain · 22/01/2010 23:42
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